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Old 04-14-2011, 09:49 AM   #31
ddorrons OP
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Bluhduh

Hey guys. I really appreciate all your comments. According to what you have said I will do the following:

1. Check vacuum hoses.
2. Check Clutch Switch.
If they are fine I will first try to bypass the clutch.
If bypassing does not work, I will return to normal and play with TPS.
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Old 04-20-2011, 06:47 AM   #32
ddorrons OP
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Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddorrons View Post
Hey guys. I really appreciate all your comments. According to what you have said I will do the following:

1. Check vacuum hoses.
2. Check Clutch Switch.
If they are fine I will first try to bypass the clutch.
If bypassing does not work, I will return to normal and play with TPS.
Ok so here is what I have done so far :
1. Checked all vacuum hoses, they are all intact.
2. Checked the clutch switch, at first it was not giving a reading so it was disconnected cleaned, line checked, reconnected, and now it gives the adequate reading 1ohm and infinity.

After this I thought the problem was solved, but NOOOOOO it is not gone!.

Now my mechanic is asking me what to do (I took the bike to the mechanic since I had no more time or space left). I told him he could go ahead and calibrate the TPS and he asked which of the two? I think he is confused with the throttle valve sensors which indeed are two. But the TPS is just one, right? Well, at least the sensor related to the TPS Reading in tuneecu.

I Have not bypassed the clutch, should I do it? and if so, how do you go about doing it?
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Old 04-20-2011, 06:55 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddorrons View Post
Now my mechanic is asking me what to do (I took the bike to the mechanic since I had no more time or space left). I told him he could go ahead and calibrate the TPS and he asked which of the two? I think he is confused with the throttle valve sensors which indeed are two. But the TPS is just one, right? Well, at least the sensor related to the TPS Reading in tuneecu.
The TPS sensor is on the front throttle body on the right side.
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Old 04-20-2011, 07:12 AM   #34
ddorrons OP
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I just checked another thread with someone with sort of the same problem. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=653185


They mentioned resetting the ECU, can this be done with TUNEECU?

I am thinking in doing the following:
1. Install the OE Map.
2. 15 minute Idle
3. Install the Akra Map.
4. 15 minute idle.
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:04 AM   #35
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I would be curious about "resetting" the ECU myself. It is mentioned in the KTM workshop manual. But I'm not exactly sure what there is to reset, other than re-loading the map, and doing the 15 minute idle. Maybe someone else can speak to this.

Now that you have checked your vacuum system and you are SURE there are no disconnected lines, missing components, or broken fittings ANYWHERE - yeah, go back and set the TPS, but get a new mechanic first! You are not paying this dude to learn how to work on your bike. He should already have some idea! Is this a KTM shop or an independent?
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:20 AM   #36
ddorrons OP
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Originally Posted by jetpoweredmonkey View Post
I would be curious about "resetting" the ECU myself. It is mentioned in the KTM workshop manual. But I'm not exactly sure what there is to reset, other than re-loading the map, and doing the 15 minute idle. Maybe someone else can speak to this.

Now that you have checked your vacuum system and you are SURE there are no disconnected lines, missing components, or broken fittings ANYWHERE - yeah, go back and set the TPS, but get a new mechanic first! You are not paying this dude to learn how to work on your bike. He should already have some idea! Is this a KTM shop or an independent?
Jetpoweredmonkey, thank you again for your response.

First off, the mechanic is a really good mechanic, he knows KTM bikes, sadly, in the city where I live there is no KTM Dealer or representative. I don´t trust any mechanic, but what I like about him is that he consults everything he is about to do to the bike with me. Just so you know, their are at most 3 reputable mechanics for high powered motorcycle in my city, and the other two consider this guy to be the best for KTM as well as other friends with KTM. The only thing that the guy is missing is the KTM DIagnostics Tool.

I am going this afternoon and I will try the steps mentioned:

1. 15 minute idle.
2. Test bike via ride and Tune ECU.
3. Load OEM Map
4. 15 Minute Idle
5. Test Bike Via Ride and Tune Ecu
6. Load Akra Map
7. 15 minute idle
8. Test Bike via Ride and tune Ecu
9. TPS (front cylinder) calibration.

I pretend with steps 1-8 to do some sort of reset. I am getting tired of not finding the solution to this problem.
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:22 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddorrons View Post
I pretend with steps 1-8 to do some sort of reset. I am getting tired of not finding the solution to this problem.
You posted some TuneECU screens a while back. Maybe you can do that again, take a few screen shots of the diagnostic page but have the engine running this time. We might be able to help you spot something.
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Old 04-25-2011, 12:58 PM   #38
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Update

Hello guys.
So I have been away for a while, reading and talking with friends. Last week I had the chance to sit with a friend of mine who knows a thing or two about injection and internal combustion engines (knows a thing or two is a modest way of saying he is an expert).

He observed that the secondary butterflies are operated electronically, while the primary ones are mechanical. This observation has an impact on the conclusion, which states that the TPS is the source of the problem (hopefully).

My TPS readings are 0.72V - 3.82V when they should be around 0.55V - 3.7V. With the air filter box open and without the air filter he turned on the bike and observed that the secondaries operated according to the electric impulse ( I do not know if they are directly related to the TPS or they have another sensor, by the wiring diagram it looks as if they work with another tps.) They open slightly with the ignition turned on and zero throttle. On the other hand the primary butterflies, open and close with the twist of the throttle. According to my TPS reading at 0 throttle my accelerator is at 4% when it is at zero, hence the ECU believes it is getting a 4% throttle when mechanically it has none and the butterflies are closed. That is why the bike is stalls if the throttle is left at 0 twist.

Looking at the voltage, knowing that the relation may not be linear, I have close to a 31% deviation in the 0 throttle opening.

In conclusion, I am going to calibrate the TPS of the front cylinder head to 0.55V and see what happens.
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Old 04-25-2011, 02:07 PM   #39
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It does sound like your TPS is off a little, but keep in mind that the TPS voltage reading is affected by the idle stepper motor. That is something entirely different from the 2nd throttle butterfly. The idle stepper needs to be there to open the main butterflies (the ones you control with the throttle) when the engine is cold in order to keep it running. That's why the TPS voltage reads high when the engine is cold.

When you adjust, either use the "throttle cable adjustment" in the testing screen to retract the idle stepper fully, or get the engine completely warmed up.
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Old 04-28-2011, 06:45 AM   #40
ddorrons OP
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Wicked That Darn TPS!

Hello.

Well, here is my latest update. I went yesterday to the shop, the mechanic had assembled the throttle body back on the bike. Before putting it back on he checked it, cleaned it and checked the injectors. Everything was fine (Although he did mention it looked like someone had played with it before). So I got there with my trusty (by trusty I mean OLD), compaq laptop, TUNEECU and Cable. First I warmed up the bike, until it got to 4-5 bars, and checked if it was still portraying the symptons. Not to my surprise the sympton was still there, although reduced considerably. With the bike warm, I checked the TPS reading; 0.72V. So we went ahead and decided to play with it.

Reduced the TPS to 0.55V turned the bike on and let it run for a while, good, but the idle RPM was at 1780.
TPS to 0.67V - symptons again.
TPS to 0.59V - No symptons, but the voltage went up to 0.63V after running it for a while Idle RPM 1480 and stable. Decided to leave it there.
As of right now the guy is going to do the 15 min idle and then I will go and check the readings again and test to see what happens.
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Old 04-28-2011, 12:51 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddorrons View Post
Hello.

Well, here is my latest update. I went yesterday to the shop, the mechanic had assembled the throttle body back on the bike. Before putting it back on he checked it, cleaned it and checked the injectors. Everything was fine (Although he did mention it looked like someone had played with it before). So I got there with my trusty (by trusty I mean OLD), compaq laptop, TUNEECU and Cable. First I warmed up the bike, until it got to 4-5 bars, and checked if it was still portraying the symptons. Not to my surprise the sympton was still there, although reduced considerably. With the bike warm, I checked the TPS reading; 0.72V. So we went ahead and decided to play with it.

Reduced the TPS to 0.55V turned the bike on and let it run for a while, good, but the idle RPM was at 1780.
TPS to 0.67V - symptons again.
TPS to 0.59V - No symptons, but the voltage went up to 0.63V after running it for a while Idle RPM 1480 and stable. Decided to leave it there.
As of right now the guy is going to do the 15 min idle and then I will go and check the readings again and test to see what happens.
I've had similar issues. You need to be sure to set the TPS with the engine hot (four bars by the old metric): a hot TPS will read about .5v higher than a cold one, and if you get too far outside of the spec 0% throttle numbers the engine starts idling really high (which made my urban commute pretty interesting for a couple of weeks before I figured out what I'd done wrong).

From your description is sounds like you are trying different settings without taking into account the temp of the sensor.
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Old 05-01-2011, 08:54 PM   #42
ddorrons OP
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Hey Guys.

I thought I had solved the issue. I got the bike back, let it sit in my garage for a complete night and the next morning connected TuneECU. The image attached portrays the readings. Saturday I went out for a ride after getting the mentioned reading, the bike was impressive, the power was surprising compared to before, and its performance flawless. I took the bike for a 200KM ride with changes in altitude and terrain, not a single glitch. I did notice the fuel consumption went UP, 180KM till the light came up. Before it was like 240. Anyway, the story continues... read next post.
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Old 05-01-2011, 08:55 PM   #43
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After the 200km, as soon as I got to the garage, with the bike still flaming hot I took the following reading:
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Old 05-01-2011, 09:01 PM   #44
ddorrons OP
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Notice how the TPS Voltage changes from cold to hot, in this case it went down. Thinking the problem was fixed, the next day I went for a more demanding ride, more curves and changes in altitude. After about an hour or so, the bike started to misbehave, it started to raise its rpm, and pressing the clutch did not work. I would have to pull over, put the bike in neutral, turn it off, wait, and then turn it back on again. But the problem persisted and got worse and worse as km were eaten up. It got to a point in which the bike reved and then lowered as if I were opening and closing the throttle abruptly. Suddenly the FI light came on. As soon as I got home, with the bike hot, I did another reading with TUNE ECU. Here it is:


Guys. I need your help.... I don't know what to do now....
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:25 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddorrons View Post
Notice how the TPS Voltage changes from cold to hot, in this case it went down. Thinking the problem was fixed, the next day I went for a more demanding ride, more curves and changes in altitude. After about an hour or so, the bike started to misbehave, it started to raise its rpm, and pressing the clutch did not work. I would have to pull over, put the bike in neutral, turn it off, wait, and then turn it back on again. But the problem persisted and got worse and worse as km were eaten up. It got to a point in which the bike reved and then lowered as if I were opening and closing the throttle abruptly. Suddenly the FI light came on. As soon as I got home, with the bike hot, I did another reading with TUNE ECU. Here it is:


Guys. I need your help.... I don't know what to do now....
Maybe you have a TPS that isn't working correct anymore.
I should try another TPS adjustment(also check wiring from the TPS to the ecu, and for bad or polluted contacts), if the same fault returns you know that you have a bad TPS.





The first 2 pictures with the TPS cold(1%) and warm (0%) is the same with my bike
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