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Old 07-30-2014, 09:19 PM   #1
Eliter85 OP
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Whats a modern day Elite 250?

So I've been looking at a new scooter for a while now. I think im pretty decided on picking up a PCX150 next spring.

But whats really bugging me is why is there no equivalent to the CH250? Mainly in size / weight / power ratio.

For example the Forza looks nice and all, But it's way bigger then anything I'd like, and it's also 130lbs heavier then the CH250, well the displacement is only 50cc larger.

The burgman 200 looks like a decent option although it still seems larger then a ch250, slowwer, and 60lbs heavier. While the Burgman 400 is huge, and a whopping 200lbs heavier then a ch250.

The only thing I can really find that matches my criteria is a Vespa (GTS 300 or similar). But I just have absolutely no desire to go there. I dont fit the high cost and the posh clique requirements.

I'm mainly loooking for a newwer, reliable scoot. Probably putting on 5,000km a year minimum. Engine size isnt a huge deal I just want to be comfortable on small highway trips plus its nice to have the extra power if you load it up for a trip. A short wheelbase so It's good in the city. And somewhere around 300lbs.

Why doesnt anyone put big engines into smaller scooters anymore?
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Old 07-30-2014, 09:29 PM   #2
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BV 350 or BV 500

Big engine, small package
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Old 07-30-2014, 09:34 PM   #3
JerryH
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No such scooter exists. I've been wishing one did for a long time. Most of today's larger displacement scooters look like an Elite 250 (and it is the boxy first gen model I like) that has been seriously stretched out, to about twice as long. I really dislike the long low banana boat look. I would like to have a 250cc Zuma, with exactly the same proportions as the 125. If you make one part bigger, then do the same with all the other parts, to keep it in scale.

One scooter that has caught my attention is the Kymco People 300. It has that tall short look I like. Unlike the Elite, it also has bigger wheels. But aside from the Vespa 300, which I cannot even begin to afford, it seems to be the closest thing to what I want out there. Compare it to Kymco's own banana boat style Downtown 300 to see the difference.

http://www.motorera.com/honda/h0250/...h250-85big.jpg This is a gorgeous scooter. The proportions are perfect, and I love the boxy look. Unfortunately everything today seems to be "swoopy"
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Old 07-30-2014, 09:37 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Human Ills View Post
BV 350 or BV 500

Big engine, small package

Very true, I think Piaggio is the only company jamming big engines into smaller scooters. The BV350 looks great, 400lbs so heavier then I'd like and a bit bigger. But it is probably the closest. They should just make something slightly smaller.. although I guess that is their Vespa.

I had read some reviews on the BV350 and it was more recommended for regular small highway trips as opposed to cummuting in a city. Only reason I could asssume are the heft and slightly larger package then say a vespa or other smaller 50-150cc scoot. Does anyone have a BV 350, are they nimble? Good errand runner?
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Old 07-30-2014, 09:43 PM   #5
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I seriously doubt a modern fuel injected Burgman200 is slower than a carbureted Elite250. Despite the weight.

I think it's the bike you're looking for; I say that as a 15 year Elite250 owner and PCX125 owner (recent.) I also own a SWing.

Like you, the IDEA of the Vespa 300ie is appealing but the reality is I want Japanese reliability and parts availability.
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Old 07-30-2014, 10:20 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliter85 View Post
Very true, I think Piaggio is the only company jamming big engines into smaller scooters. The BV350 looks great, 400lbs so heavier then I'd like and a bit bigger. But it is probably the closest. They should just make something slightly smaller.. although I guess that is their Vespa.

I had read some reviews on the BV350 and it was more recommended for regular small highway trips as opposed to cummuting in a city. Only reason I could asssume are the heft and slightly larger package then say a vespa or other smaller 50-150cc scoot. Does anyone have a BV 350, are they nimble? Good errand runner?
So I purchased a BV 500 when I lived in Santa Rosa (north of san francisco) for a 75 mile each way commute to SFO.
Basically cruised at an indicated 90 all the way down to the city and terrorized the city proper on the way through to the airport and back. Very flickable and easy to squeeze into tight spaces. Was never anywhere but front of the pack. Did not feel like a maxi to me.
My understanding is that the 350 is only down about 15mph on the top end.

Definitely not a slow lane ride, IMO
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Old 07-30-2014, 10:50 PM   #7
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never had a problem slingin the bv350 around in downtown seattle/queen anne hill.
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Old 07-31-2014, 01:02 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliter85 View Post
Very true, I think Piaggio is the only company jamming big engines into smaller scooters. The BV350 looks great, 400lbs so heavier then I'd like and a bit bigger. But it is probably the closest. They should just make something slightly smaller.. although I guess that is their Vespa.

I had read some reviews on the BV350 and it was more recommended for regular small highway trips as opposed to cummuting in a city. Only reason I could asssume are the heft and slightly larger package then say a vespa or other smaller 50-150cc scoot. Does anyone have a BV 350, are they nimble? Good errand runner?
I've got almost 7000 miles on mine. It's a great mix of city commuter with travel capability if needed. I'll take it on a 15 mile mixed interstate/city street commute to work or a 1200 mile long weekend and feel equally comfortable. Top speed is an indicated 100 mph under the right conditions, which is really about 90 (Piaggio says 86 mph). That means it can cruise at 70 - 75 comfortably and gets low 60's mpg at those speeds. Slow down a bit and mpg climbs to high 60's.

I've really enjoyed mine. It hasn't been perfect mechanically but it's certainly been good enough.
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Old 07-31-2014, 03:58 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wadenelson View Post
I seriously doubt a modern fuel injected Burgman200 is slower than a carbureted Elite250. Despite the weight.

I think it's the bike you're looking for; I say that as a 15 year Elite250 owner and PCX125 owner (recent.) I also own a SWing.

Like you, the IDEA of the Vespa 300ie is appealing but the reality is I want Japanese reliability and parts availability.
I'd bet the Burgman isn't any faster. Contrary to what is said Burgamn tops out in the low 70s. The Elite250 was 17hp and the Burgman is 18. It may start faster and run smoother but the power but the end result will be the same.

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Old 07-31-2014, 06:44 AM   #10
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Owner input

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliter85 View Post
Very true, I think Piaggio is the only company jamming big engines into smaller scooters. The BV350 looks great, 400lbs so heavier then I'd like and a bit bigger. But it is probably the closest. They should just make something slightly smaller.. although I guess that is their Vespa.

I had read some reviews on the BV350 and it was more recommended for regular small highway trips as opposed to cummuting in a city. Only reason I could asssume are the heft and slightly larger package then say a vespa or other smaller 50-150cc scoot. Does anyone have a BV 350, are they nimble? Good errand runner?

As a serial owner of both a Vespa GTS 250 AND a Piaggio BV350 I can offer you this:

1) The BV 350 is an amazing scooter. Powerful, economical, and at 6000 and 4800 miles respectively....we have 2 his n hers....quite reliable so far.

2) It is a bigger scooter, with a higher stepover so ingress/egress isnt quite as easy as it is on my Vespa, and inasmuch thats a large part of errand-running and city riding IMO.

3) it IS a heavier scooter, but not a "pig" especially given its 33 hp at the rear tire. Once rolling it dances very nicely through twisties, in urban dodging games, and over poor road surfaces.

4) Delivers amazing fuel economy provided you can resist the rocket-ship acceleration.

5) that all said....were I to be in a position to own just one scooter, it would be my 2006, 21000 mile + Vespa GTS.

Why? Well, only a Vespa is a Vespa for one. Sexy...steel monocoque design. I have toured on it quite a bit, very successfully, and its phenomenal in-town. Very capable power-wise but the small wheels and tires really require you keep your eyes on the road-surface or risk spine damage! Mine hasn't been totally....reliable with some electrical issues and a bum water-pump just outside of Piaggio's woeful 1 year warranty. But at the end of the day, it has never left me stranded, I smile every time I ride it, and it still looks and rides like new.

To sum-up I prefer my BV-350 to my longer, overnight type trips now...as I enjoy the extra power. But thats kind of what I got it for. We often knock down 500 to 800 mile weekends and have the BV set-up specifically for touring.http://gogogordy1.wix.com/scooter-aficionado

I love the scooter, but love my well-used and iconic Vespa too.

For general purpose use you cant go wrong with the BV350 but in my opinion it's sweet-spot isnt for 100% in-city use.
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Old 07-31-2014, 09:14 AM   #11
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So buy a nice used CH 250. They're out there. Mine has close to 35k on it and is still dead reliable. Most wear and tear items are readily available.The only reason mine doesn't have more miles on it is because I also have a 150 Elite and an Aero 125 that I alternate between. All of them,even nearing 30 yrs old,are reliable transportation. My only gripe is I have to stop for fuel so often because they only hold a gal.and a half.
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Old 07-31-2014, 10:10 AM   #12
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I've gained confidence in the reliability of my BV500 to the point that I am considering some touring on it. I believe the initial bugs have been worked out. The machine is a joy to ride, with good power in a relatively small frame, certainly smaller than the SWing. It handles very well and totes my large economy sized-self around quite nicely at all rational speeds, averaging about 62-65 mpg all the while. I don't know how it compares to the CH250, but the design sounds similar...big engine, small frame.
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Old 07-31-2014, 10:59 AM   #13
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KYMCO Bet & Win 250 might be worth looking at if a used one comes up for sale.
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Old 07-31-2014, 11:16 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by baloneyskin daddy View Post
So buy a nice used CH 250. They're out there.
What sized wheels on the Elite 250?

Edit: i just looked it up. is it a 12" front and a 10" rear? Weird!
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Old 07-31-2014, 01:45 PM   #15
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What sized wheels on the Elite 250?

Edit: i just looked it up. is it a 12" front and a 10" rear? Weird!
Mine are both 4;00x10 its an 86 however the Helix has 2 different sized wheels
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