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Old 05-25-2011, 11:25 AM   #181
lemieuxmc
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Supermoto on a Kart track is a lot more exciting than Moto GP at Daytona.

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Old 12-22-2013, 11:01 AM   #182
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Christmas thread revival!

Just was talking with my cruiser riding older brother who racks up 20k miles a year touring. We were finalizing plans to meet at my sisters place for Christmas when in closing I brought up if he had been on any good rides this year. He told me that he had to "lay her down" at 40 mph to avoid some stopped cars after coming around a corner. (25 years ago I felt it necessary to inform him to use the front brakes because that's where 80 percent of the braking power is) Because of laying her down he mostly got some good road rash. My talk about brakes working better than sliding, or that maybe he would have been better off maybe, maybe, hitting one the cars at 5 mph (which wouldn't have happened but lets say it anyway) and falling over wasn't warmly received - after all "I wasn't there". Somehow the conversation escalated and he intoned any more smack talk like that and he'd punch me out. That's when I hung up. Obviously, I am in the wrong here and I am also impinging on his two wheeled freedom, even if I am his brother.

Happy holidays for my family!
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Old 12-22-2013, 11:42 AM   #183
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My father logged hundreds of thousands of miles all through the 50's until he passed away in '98. He always called B.S. on the laying her down strategy. I can not tell you the number of times I would hear him talking to his buddies and he would insist that you never lay the bike down, you do what you need to do to avoid a crash. The best response I ever heard was "How would you know Jack, you have never crashed!". My father just smiled and said exactly.

That was old conventional wisdom and it is still around. Just like the BS line of "Everyone crashes if you ride enough." That one is crap too.
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:28 PM   #184
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Crash is a strong term. Everyone drops their bike at least once.
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Old 12-23-2013, 06:47 AM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henshao View Post
Crash is a strong term. Everyone drops their bike at least once.
This is another myth which has been dealt with in another thread.
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Old 12-23-2013, 07:47 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by henshao View Post
Crash is a strong term. Everyone drops their bike at least once.
A drop and a crash are two completely different things. Too bad cagers don't have the option to lay er down.
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Old 12-23-2013, 12:24 PM   #187
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Crash is a strong term. Everyone drops their bike at least once.
How does you approach motorcycling with such a defeatist attitude?
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Old 12-23-2013, 04:48 PM   #188
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Just read the thread, I learned a lot. I had no idea my GSA had rear brakes. I thought it was a foot rest.
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Old 12-23-2013, 06:05 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by GravelRoad View Post
The lady who cuts my hair asked me if I ride my motorcycle much (since I rode it to the shop and it was "only" 50 degrees outside). I responded yes, and she informed me her husband rides a Harley. I tell her that's nice, but she goes on to state he only rides on Saturday afternoons in perfect weather, and then in the country. No big deal to me, do what you want, right? But then she gives me his riding wisdom, which amounts to having the ability to lay it down on a moments notice. he has, apparently, "laid her down" numerous times! She asked if I had ever done that? I truthfully told her I prefer to keep leaning, steering, gassing, braking, whatever to avoid the wreck til I have no other options. She thought I was talking out of my ass, so I shut up (she did have shears in her hand).
is this a common riding technique, to just give up and bail off? Guess I been doing it wrong for the past 30 years..
Only if your tires aren't scrubbed in...
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Old 12-24-2013, 04:02 PM   #190
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Only laid her down one time on pavement and it wasn't my idea. One track day I went into a turn and low sided because my front tire went flat. One thing not mentioned much is that it hurts. I broke my thumb and it still hurts today-arthritis. Had many a low speed & high speed get off in the dirt but as far as pavement goes, keep the rubber side down!
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Old 12-25-2013, 05:11 AM   #191
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Before 1985, I had a few near-collisions where I laid 'er down (my 305 Dream). After 1985, all my evasive maneuvers have resulted in braking and controlled maneuvers leaving me upright. And with scooters no less! In 1985 I learned about *countersteering*
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Old 12-25-2013, 08:13 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemieuxmc View Post
Supermoto on a Kart track is a lot more exciting than Moto GP at Daytona.

AMA are you listening?
AMA is NOT/NOT listening...
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Old 12-25-2013, 09:22 AM   #193
storymitchell
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I have been riding since the early 70s and have ridden multiple bikes from the 60s. Even when perfectly adjusted, cable actuated drum brakes can be a challenge to modulate. Get some miles / wear / grit on them and add a burst of adrenaline from someone cutting you off and the brakes generally became on/off. This made it easy to grab a handful of front brake and tuck the front end. As a result, hard stopping was generally about stomping on the rear brake and doing what you could with the front brake which, as someone already noted, was probably going to result in "laying 'er down".

I'd love to see someone that rides a modern bike with disc brakes and ABS get on a well worn /2 or Bonneville from the 60s and demonstrate their braking technique .

I am not advocating "laying 'er down", just saying that there is a basis for the technique and for some people old habits die hard.
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Old 12-26-2013, 03:50 PM   #194
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To me, a rider's attitude about riding has more impact on survival than many ever realize. In the context of this thread, attitude shows in comments like:
1. CRASH is a hard term? YES, and the rider must take it on himself to do everything to avoid the crash. MOST of what we do to avoid a crash occurs before we ever get to the crash.
2. ACCIDENT is a misnomer for nothing more than a crash we don't admit to. There are a few cases of true "accidents" (like a rock falling off a cliff onto a cycle), but most traffic altercations are CRASHES, no accidents.
3. HADDA LAY ER DOWN, is simply bull. It is a loss of control, or control simply given up as a result of not knowing what to do, or how to do it. I challenge anyone who claims he/she HAD to lay it down. About the only reason to lay a bike down would be to avoid going over a cliff with the bike, and hope you slide to a stop before the edge is there.

I take the attitude that "laying it down" is simply not having the skills to ride well. That includes having strong traffic skills, highly developed situational awareness skills, high sense of visibility (both you and others), high sense of space management and strong physical riding skills (braking, leaning, countersteering, etc). But note, most of the skills needed are less physical and more mental for survival.
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Old 12-27-2013, 02:29 AM   #195
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Thumb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyvh1959 View Post
To me, a rider's attitude about riding has more impact on survival than many ever realize. In the context of this thread, attitude shows in comments like:
1. CRASH is a hard term? YES, and the rider must take it on himself to do everything to avoid the crash. MOST of what we do to avoid a crash occurs before we ever get to the crash.
2. ACCIDENT is a misnomer for nothing more than a crash we don't admit to. There are a few cases of true "accidents" (like a rock falling off a cliff onto a cycle), but most traffic altercations are CRASHES, no accidents.
3. HADDA LAY ER DOWN, is simply bull. It is a loss of control, or control simply given up as a result of not knowing what to do, or how to do it. I challenge anyone who claims he/she HAD to lay it down. About the only reason to lay a bike down would be to avoid going over a cliff with the bike, and hope you slide to a stop before the edge is there.

I take the attitude that "laying it down" is simply not having the skills to ride well. That includes having strong traffic skills, highly developed situational awareness skills, high sense of visibility (both you and others), high sense of space management and strong physical riding skills (braking, leaning, countersteering, etc). But note, most of the skills needed are less physical and more mental for survival.
Couldn't agree more, as a noob I often get well intentioned but totally misguided advice. Now very carefully who I take advice from. The scary thing is some of the worst advice has been from long time riders.
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