ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Beasts
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-26-2011, 01:10 AM   #31
Old Git Ray
Now retired...YeeHaa
 
Old Git Ray's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: UK based, Bored because I am not travelling
Oddometer: 1,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrahamD View Post
The slow turning may have something to do with this.
In decreasing degrees of rake..........

SUPER TENERE 1200 28.0
....Maybe Greg, being a clever chap, can figure it out.

Cheers
Graham
Graham,
This Yamaha spec sheet says 26 deg ?

http://www.yamaha-motor.co.uk/uk/pro...view=techspecs

As for the reduction with Gregs 25mm raising link:

Simple trigonometry:

Tan = Opp/Adjacent

Opposite is the 25mm raise.
Adjacent is the 1540mm wheel Base.

Tan = 25/1540 = 0.01623 = 2.8 deg less rake.

Therfore with the link the rake (castor angle) is about 23.2 deg.

It does make a lot of difference to the handling. I allways ride 2 up and although my shock was jacked up a bit, it was not enough. I jacked it up all the way and the differnce was amazing.
__________________
Karen "Oh my God, I am traveling with a f**king idiot."
Blog: http://www.raykarenhall.blogspot.com
Old Git Ray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 01:52 AM   #32
GrahamD
Beastly Adventurer
 
GrahamD's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Blue Mnts Ozstralia
Oddometer: 5,188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Git Ray View Post
Graham,
This Yamaha spec sheet says 26 deg ?

http://www.yamaha-motor.co.uk/uk/pro...view=techspecs

As for the reduction with Gregs 25mm raising link:

Simple trigonometry:

Tan = Opp/Adjacent

Opposite is the 25mm raise.
Adjacent is the 1540mm wheel Base.

Tan = 25/1540 = 0.01623 = 2.8 deg less rake.

Therfore with the link the rake (castor angle) is about 23.2 deg.

It does make a lot of difference to the handling. I allways ride 2 up and although my shock was jacked up a bit, it was not enough. I jacked it up all the way and the differnce was amazing.
Thanks Ray.

The specs were taken off another thread and it looks like there are a lot of 28 degree rake quotes all around the web, except YAMAHA who quote "Caster Angle" which is supposed to be the same thing, correct?

Thanks for the heads up and the calculations. I'll amend the post.

Cheers
Graham
__________________
"It's better to ride a boring bike than push an interesting one" ... Canuman

"I just may as well admit that my other bikes are toast. I don't ride them. Plain and simple. I didn't want this. It wasn't the plan." - snakebitten
GrahamD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 02:00 AM   #33
Wasp
Supa10 pilot
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Western Australia
Oddometer: 1,062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Git Ray View Post
Graham,
This Yamaha spec sheet says 26 deg ?



As for the reduction with Gregs 25mm raising link:

Simple trigonometry:

Tan = Opp/Adjacent

Opposite is the 25mm raise.
Adjacent is the 1540mm wheel Base.

Tan = 25/1540 = 0.01623 = 2.8 deg less rake.

Therfore with the link the rake (castor angle) is about 23.2 deg.

It does make a lot of difference to the handling. I allways ride 2 up and although my shock was jacked up a bit, it was not enough. I jacked it up all the way and the differnce was amazing.
Close Ray.. But missed by Thaaat much.


I think your calcs may have assumed rotation about the centre of the steering stem, where the rotation takes place about the swing-arm/frame pivot.

The MotorradWorks suspension raising kit lifts the swing-arm pivot vertically 25mm.
The actual geometry of the standard XT1200Z is 28deg rake and 126mm trail.
The geometry of the modified XT1200Z after installing the kit is 26.2deg rake and 101mm trail.

But you are right. It does turn a once slow turner into a much more nimble bike in line with the current crop of mid sized (more dirt performance orientated) dual sport bikes.

Greg.
__________________
The original WaspWorks S10 detail & evolution thread:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=595933
The NEW "Long Term" WaspWorks S10 detail & evolution thread:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=778809
Wasp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 03:05 AM   #34
GrahamD
Beastly Adventurer
 
GrahamD's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Blue Mnts Ozstralia
Oddometer: 5,188
OK Chief. I'll change it back. Or should I wait for the rake thread to turn into the equivalent to an oil/tyre thread?
__________________
"It's better to ride a boring bike than push an interesting one" ... Canuman

"I just may as well admit that my other bikes are toast. I don't ride them. Plain and simple. I didn't want this. It wasn't the plan." - snakebitten
GrahamD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 08:44 AM   #35
Robear
Quack Kills
 
Robear's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Southeast Ohio
Oddometer: 158
Don't forget that the GS underwent a fairly significant overhaul for 2010. I got to take one for a weekend test ride while my RT was in for service. I was impressed with it after putting on about 300 miles. I suspect the newer GS would compare more favorably with the big Yammie.
__________________
"This river don't go to Aintry. You done taken a wrong turn."
Robear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 10:31 AM   #36
Ze_zaskar
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Ze_zaskar's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: 4117'51.59"N / 843'56.76"W
Oddometer: 309
A different over head cam design and an exhaust valve is not what I would call a major "overhaul". They affect engine performance, and that was only one of the many topics of the review. Everything else stays the same, like brakes, electronics, suspension, geometry, etc
Ze_zaskar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 01:25 PM   #37
20valves
Yamaholic
 
20valves's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Oklahoma
Oddometer: 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Git Ray View Post
Simple trigonometry
no such thing
__________________
'14 500 EXC, '06 R1 LE, '13 FJR, '12 XTZ12, '09 T Max
20valves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 01:25 PM   #38
Robear
Quack Kills
 
Robear's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Southeast Ohio
Oddometer: 158
Yes, I used the wrong word. I should have wrote change in place of overhaul.
And I really couldn't remember what all was changed on the 2010 models.
I guess a 5% gain in engine output isn't "fairly significant".

The dealer where I demoed the GS handles Yamahas also. Hopefully they will demo one eventually. I looked at them at the International show and really liked the way it felt.
__________________
"This river don't go to Aintry. You done taken a wrong turn."
Robear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 01:46 PM   #39
rocca
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: UK
Oddometer: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robear View Post
Don't forget that the GS underwent a fairly significant overhaul for 2010. I got to take one for a weekend test ride while my RT was in for service. I was impressed with it after putting on about 300 miles. I suspect the newer GS would compare more favorably with the big Yammie.
I've ridden the two pretty much back-to-back over some distance on roads and to my mind there's no doubt that the 2010 (twin cam) GS has quicker steering and a somewhat zippier engine than the XT1200Z.

Still ended up buying the Yamaha, though. Tracks beautifully through the bends, with a tremendous feeling of stability. Impeccable fuelling and drivetrain sophistication also - for me - more than make up for the slight relative lack of urge.
rocca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 03:34 PM   #40
Robear
Quack Kills
 
Robear's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Southeast Ohio
Oddometer: 158
Thanks for the info rocca. I can't imagine that one of the two won't find its way into my garage. Doesn't sound like either one would be a mistake.
__________________
"This river don't go to Aintry. You done taken a wrong turn."
Robear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 03:58 PM   #41
Big Mistake onWheels
Banned
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Idaho
Oddometer: 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robear View Post
Thanks for the info rocca. I can't imagine that one of the two won't find its way into my garage. Doesn't sound like either one would be a mistake.
Robear, maybe read the GSPOT topic on here about the GS. Especially threads on the GS's rearend. There are pictures circulating the web showing swing arms on the ground, blown bearings, rearends on fire----yup, actually on fire. I had a GS and spent lottsa time getting warranty work done(same on an BMW RT I had). I was amazed as I was coming off years of the fantastic dependability of jap bikes. Just sayin,buddy. I have a Tenere on order,at least for now(see what developes with the delivery date issue). Check'm out good before you buy,maybe. Just sayin. Good luck. Guys, what exactly is "rake"? The angle from vertical of the forks? Am trying visualize how that effects turning radius. Somebody mentioned 2 up riding on the GS. I cranked my suspension to max, that seemed to make the height issue more pronounced corner blasting,2 up. That makes for a big arc you go thru in fast ,asphalt switchbacks . I found that to be interesting.Fun too. Thanks.
Big Mistake onWheels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 10:40 PM   #42
sinned
Gnarly Adventurer
 
sinned's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Kiwi in the middle kingdOOm aka China
Oddometer: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyMedic View Post
Thanks for the update. I'm fine with waiting for mine. I wonder how it'll compare to my Uly tho. Hmmmm.
Which Calsi windscreen did you go with?
I'd really be interested in your comparison and views once you've had saddle time enough to pen a few words on the keyboard. I'm curious as I can buy a low mileage 2010 Buell Uly XB12XT for half the price of the Super 10, but then the Super 10 has more bells and whistles than the Uly and sounds like it's more off-road orientated which is my plan for a tour around OZ.

Oh, and cheers to OP for the review... which settled any inclination I had of getting a GSA.

Just saying...
__________________
Kiwi ADVenturer inmate Dr, Paramedic, NP, (ex)firefighter exploring life via the ADVenturous 2 wheeled route. It's not the destination but the journey & choices made therein; that determines the measure of ones legacy. Don't sweat the small stuff, life happens while we're not looking. Hug those around you who have a place & meaning in your life, for it may not come again.
sinned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2011, 12:25 PM   #43
Old Git Ray
Now retired...YeeHaa
 
Old Git Ray's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: UK based, Bored because I am not travelling
Oddometer: 1,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
Close Ray.. But missed by Thaaat much.


I think your calcs may have assumed rotation about the centre of the steering stem, where the rotation takes place about the swing-arm/frame pivot.

The MotorradWorks suspension raising kit lifts the swing-arm pivot vertically 25mm.
The actual geometry of the standard XT1200Z is 28deg rake and 126mm trail.
The geometry of the modified XT1200Z after installing the kit is 26.2deg rake and 101mm trail.

But you are right. It does turn a once slow turner into a much more nimble bike in line with the current crop of mid sized (more dirt performance orientated) dual sport bikes.

Greg.
TBH I was trying to keep it simple, which it isn't !
However, where did you get the 28 deg figure from. Did you actually measure it ?

The 101 mm Trail figure seems a bit small for the loss of a couple of degrees ? A 25mm loss is a lot.

Either way, screw the maths ...it works.

Ray
__________________
Karen "Oh my God, I am traveling with a f**king idiot."
Blog: http://www.raykarenhall.blogspot.com
Old Git Ray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2011, 05:41 PM   #44
GrahamD
Beastly Adventurer
 
GrahamD's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Blue Mnts Ozstralia
Oddometer: 5,188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Git Ray View Post
TBH I was trying to keep it simple, which it isn't !
However, where did you get the 28 deg figure from. Did you actually measure it ?

The 101 mm Trail figure seems a bit small for the loss of a couple of degrees ? A 25mm loss is a lot.

Either way, screw the maths ...it works.

Ray
It's actually quoted as 28 Degrees in the service manual, and all over the web except for the YAMAHA UK site that you provided..

Either the UK site is a mis-print or they have different rake angles for different markets, although the service manual usually states that.

Cheers
Graham
__________________
"It's better to ride a boring bike than push an interesting one" ... Canuman

"I just may as well admit that my other bikes are toast. I don't ride them. Plain and simple. I didn't want this. It wasn't the plan." - snakebitten
GrahamD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2011, 06:42 PM   #45
Animo
Beastly n00b
 
Animo's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Playa del Carmen
Oddometer: 4,880
Yeah, but if you put that 28 degree and place it into that 46 degree and then take 11 from that you derive to whatever you guys are talking about!

I want that raising link, period! Better is just that, better!
__________________
Life is good, even in adversity!

Yucatan | Chiapas | Belize 1 | Belize 2 | QRoo | Guanajuato
Animo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 01:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014