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Old 12-20-2012, 10:48 PM   #136
Ghost_Mutant
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Which counterbalance will you use with the XL6 crank? Won't the vibrations increase if you reuse the XR5 counterbalance with the XL6 crank?

I use a propane heater in the garage this time of year

I finally had to put my bike under the dust cover for the winter.
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Old 12-22-2012, 05:16 AM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost_Mutant View Post


Which counterbalance will you use with the XL6 crank? Won't the vibrations increase if you reuse the XR5 counterbalance with the XL6 crank?

I use a propane heater in the garage this time of year

I finally had to put my bike under the dust cover for the winter.

I think it should be a counterbalance XL600.
I have a XBR500 counterbalance, and it looks like a XR600 than a XR500R. He has a heavy counterbalance, double gear, and small caps for other bearings. I will look for 600 counterbalance. But this project is only a draft now. I have not made ​​a final decision to build 600.


My garage has no insulation, a sheet meta separates the internal space from the external world.
I have a natural gas of pipe,- insulation, and warming of the garage is the next (second) stage after reconstruction of my house.
I can warm yourself this winter only so-
This works but requires a lot of time for comfort.

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Old 12-22-2012, 05:31 AM   #138
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I made the first measurements of crank shafts 500 and 600.
The right half of the crankshaft XL600 (clutch side) corresponds exactly to XR500. The left side of the crankshaft (the stator) is lengthening the rotor shaft of the generator (6 mm.).

If you reduce the space for the bearing on the crankshaft (the side of the generator), XL600, the shaft can be set to XR500.
My measurements (sorry I'm not an artist)

In parentheses are the dimensions XL600!!!

I have a few questions for the continuation of the movement further.
1. Which thickness (size) of the left crankcase a XL600? (from the main connectors to cover the stator)
2.What size (depth) in the cover the stator (of connectors up to supports the stator)?
Where was added an additional 6 mm Japanese engineers?
Who can help make these measurements?
Thank you!

Ivanych screwed with this post 12-22-2012 at 05:47 AM
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:36 PM   #139
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Ivan, it looks like you scored big on that XL600 crank. Way cheaper than sending you mine.
Sorry I didn't get back with you sooner but I've been bogged down with other projects and bikes have been kinda out of my thoughts for a while.
Stay warm, man. It's been in the low 40s upper 30s (F) here, I can only imagine how it must be there.
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Old 12-23-2012, 01:41 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by brucifer View Post
Ivan, it looks like you scored big on that XL600 crank. Way cheaper than sending you mine.
Sorry I didn't get back with you sooner but I've been bogged down with other projects and bikes have been kinda out of my thoughts for a while.
Stay warm, man. It's been in the low 40s upper 30s (F) here, I can only imagine how it must be there.
I'm sorry Bruce, I did not take your offer. I felt uncomfortable about the deal. Buying on Ebay was accidental, low cost, lack of competition and I decided.
I would be very grateful if you help me with advice and share their experiences at work.

I saw you live in California. The mountains and the ocean, it should look like a paradise. Greater Frost in Russia was not long ago, and many have lost the habit. 30-50 years ago in St. Petersburg, temperature-20C is the norm (normal winter), it is now rare and in the New Year's holiday will thaw.
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:35 PM   #141
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Ivan, have you got (or can you take ) the measurement from the crank web to the end of the 'stub' on the stator side for both the xl and xr cranks?

The xl crank i have is from an electric start model and i believe this is longer still It is approx 84mm the one i have!

I am now toying with having this xl crank machined to the xr500 profile and using the xr engine cases. Maybe the whole stator side and use original size xr bearings or just get it shortened and use a modified bearing from list (40x80x18 iirc) on the xl sizing.

I got lost on the balance bearing side of things, not sure if it was this thread or another, but are the counter balance bearings the same on both the xl and xr?

btw carillo still have the 83/84 xr500 spec conrod on their database The only problem is no-one seems to have any big end roller bearings or thrustwashers seems they are an odd honda size. Surprise surprise!

okeydokey screwed with this post 01-17-2013 at 01:59 PM Reason: Add size of crank stub and bearing option.
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:41 AM   #142
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Hi guys!
These lost 6 mm. were found
They were hiding in the cover of the stator 600.

1. Which thickness (size) of the left crankcase a XL600? (from the main connectors to cover the stator) - 74.5mm - XR500r=75.0
2.What size (depth) in the cover the stator (of connectors up to supports the stator)XL600? - 22.0mm - XR500r=16.0

Thanks to Bruce and Jim for the done measurement!!
Okeydokey Special thanks for the info on the left of the crankshaft bearing!!

Сrafty Japanese engineers - Hooray!

Quote:
Originally Posted by okeydokey View Post
Ivan, have you got (or can you take ) the measurement from the crank web to the end of the 'stub' on the stator side for both the xl and xr cranks?

The xl crank i have is from an electric start model and i believe this is longer still It is approx 84mm the one i have!

I am now toying with having this xl crank machined to the xr500 profile and using the xr engine cases. Maybe the whole stator side and use original size xr bearings or just get it shortened and use a modified bearing from list (40x80x18 iirc) on the xl sizing.

I got lost on the balance bearing side of things, not sure if it was this thread or another, but are the counter balance bearings the same on both the xl and xr?
Hi, Okeydokey !
I can make accurate measurements tomorrow.
But I know for sure - the crankshaft XL600 (LM, RM) electric starter has a more long end on the side of the stator than XL600R. And I'm sure he has a insult of 80 mm.\


Balancer shaft bearing XR500=XL600R (83-84) - 17x42x12,
XR600R (85 -) - 16x44x13

Your idea of ​​using a bearing to set XL600 crankshaft it is wonderful.
Installing the crankshaft looks quite easy now.
I will sleep poorly now, and I will dream about the 600.
New bearing and XL/XR600 stator cover solve all problem!

(My New XL/XR600 stator cover is on its way to me. )

But there is one small problem.
We must do mechanical processing hole cylinder sleeve in the left crankcase for installation of 100 mm. sleeve.

Quote:
btw carillo still have the 83/84 xr500 spec conrod on their database The only problem is no-one seems to have any big end roller bearings or thrustwashers seems they are an odd honda size. Surprise surprise!
I'm not sure about the size of the connecting rod in the information from Carrillo.
I have a picture and I see there other than the size of the library information.


length between centres 134mm or 133mm?????
Correct me if I am wrong.

Ivanych screwed with this post 01-18-2013 at 03:57 AM
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:07 AM   #143
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Hmm always thought it was 134mm Still, i suppose they sold a few of them someone must have queried it somewhere?

Currently struggling with the counter balance and bearings it seems the xl600 one i have, used bearings 16x42x13. 1mm thicker than the xr500 bearing and 1mm smaller bore.

I cannot find a 12mm wide bearing as the xr500 and have measured the xl counter balance and it is longer than the xr one by 2mm which is complicating thinga a little. The xl balance is marked MK4 and is similar to the one you have pictured above with the double tooth cog. The xr500 balance is lightened on the cog and is generally smaller as you know. I wonder on the complications with the engine of using the xr500 balance in place of the heavier 600 one?

Have we any specs or pictures of the xl600r counter balance and bearings?
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:13 AM   #144
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Hold that counter balance length!! Just measured again and yes the overall length is different but the extra is confined to the bearing surface 1mm longer either end hence the wider bearing

xr500 counter balance weighs 1Kg
xl600 counter balance weighs 1.2Kg (measured on the kitchen scales )

xr500 crankshaft weight ??
xl600 crankshaft weight approx 5Kg (measured on the bathroom scales )

What is difference in crankshaft weights inc. conrod? So many ideas running, need research and info time.

okeydokey screwed with this post 01-18-2013 at 09:13 AM Reason: add weights
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:57 AM   #145
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Thoughts currently bouncing round in my bonce

All this through the xr500r conrod situation
Sure buying another crankshaft is an option, but am trying here to have a rebuildable crank with the more readily available 600 conrods. I personally have decided to go 600cc for ease.

In the absense of 12mm counter balance bearings machine crankcase counter balance bearing seats 1mm deeper and us readily available 13mm thickness bearings available in both sizes to suit xl600 and xr500 counter balance. This maybe a necessity anyway as 12mm thickness bearing is an odd size and not readily available. There is enough material in the crankcase to achieve this btw.

Have xl600 crankshaft, stator side, re-worked to match xr500 and fit with original size crankshaft bearings.

Have xl600 cranshaft shortened and semi re-worked to match xr500 and fit different bearing stator side.

Fit complete xl600 top end (barrel, piston and head), with re-worked xl600 crank and xl600 counter balance, slightly modified crankcase mouth (for 600 barrel). This increases rotating mass significantly and i am wondering wether the 500 cases are suitable.

Fit complete xl600 top end, with reworked xl600 crank but crankshaft lightened to xr500 weight using either bearing configuration and use xr500 counter balance. This reduces rotating mass and in general you would end up with a big bore xr500r.

The differences in piston weights would be an advantage here aswell

Any extra thoughts would be good here

Hope you understand my ramblings here Ivan. I could have added to my own xr thread but as we seem to be in a very similar position engine wise............


JE forged xr600 piston +3mm o/s (623cc) = 380g
wiseco xr500 piston +1mm o/s approx 400g

The 600 piston lighter?

okeydokey screwed with this post 01-18-2013 at 10:18 AM Reason: piston weight
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:19 AM   #146
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Wait!
I do not have time to digest the (translated and soobradat), sorry!!
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:11 AM   #147
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Here are a few thoughts about the balancer and 600 crankshaft.
1. We should use the 600 balancer with 600 crankshaft. (use 500 balancer with 600 crankshaft add vibration)
2. There porridge (confusion) of the 600 balancers and bearings.
3. Bearing 17x42x12 balancer set to XR500R and XR600R (1983-1984, 85 - ....? - Black motors, and maybe what that red motors, but I'm not sure)
4. Black and red in Evroppe motors (1985.....) with electric start engines have XR600R motors (80 mm. insult) and should have a bearing balancer 16x44x13.
5. Bearing 17x42x12 can still be found for purchase. - http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID...ER_SHAFT_82-83
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CR480-Elsino...d5d124&vxp=mtr
6. Most balancing shafts 600 are double gear, but XR600r equipped with balancer with full star sometimes.
7. I do not like the idea of machining the crankcase.
There is a standard bearing 17x42x13 (1742). This bearing can be mounted without the refinement crankcase, but needs tweaking balancer.
My photo above contains XR500R and XBR500 Balancing shaft. I thought XBR500 crankshaft and Balancing shaft will be like XR500, but they look like a XL600. I was surprised. This balancer XBR500 is designed for a 16x44x13 bearings.
Ugh my brain explode now, I have to rest a bit.

This Honda 91005-MG3-003 BEARING (17X42X12) is also used on these models and components:
http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detai...5-MG3-003.html

This Honda 91005-MK4-701 BEARING (16X44X13) is also used on these models and components:
http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detai...5-MK4-701.html

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Old 01-19-2013, 08:44 AM   #148
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measurement from the crank

Quote:
Originally Posted by okeydokey View Post
Ivan, have you got (or can you take ) the measurement from the crank web to the end of the 'stub' on the stator side for both the xl and xr cranks?

The xl crank i have is from an electric start model and i believe this is longer still It is approx 84mm the one i have!

I
okeydokey, I made ​​measurements XL600 end of the 'stub' of the crankshaft on the side of the stator - this size=63.5 - 64.0 mm.
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:13 AM   #149
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new camshaft in the old head

This is another one of my crazy winter project - put a new camshaft XR600R (2000) in the old XR500R head.
See the photos





Two new rocker, machining head cover and insert the plug into the extra hole in the camshaft - this is necessary for the proper operation of the new camshaft!
What do you think?
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:53 AM   #150
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Are you going to have to machine the cam locating dowel hole further out? Kinda hard to tell by the pic.
If you get that sorted, you can probably use a later (single carb) rocker cover assembly or maybe just use the later rockers in your cover?
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