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Old 01-03-2013, 03:17 PM   #46
JimVonBaden
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Def,

There are a lot of reasons NOT to do a DVD on this, primarily that though there are a lot of sharp guys out there, there are some that would attempt it despite lacking the requisite skills. Not only could this result in failures, but injury is possible as well.

Finally, the failures would likely be blamed on the instructions, and sales would be impacted, liability issues arrise, and worse, someone might get hurt. Some things are better left up to the people with the right skills.

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Old 01-03-2013, 04:26 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by def View Post
Why not make a couple of sets of "Hole in the middle" FD tools, jigs and fixtures and rent them with a deposit to be refunded when the tools are returned intact. You could also include a write up instruction for the repair of the FD in question...kind of a JVB tech video for the holy FD rebuilds.

Jim, maybe you could partner up with the originator of the tools and make a go of it...

Heck, I'll bet some independent BMW repair shops would be interested in these tools and repair instructions if they were available commercially.

I agree with the poster who said, "If it was built by man, it can be repaired by man". And, just possibly, the repaired FD is more reliable than the factory OE unit.

This was the case with an old '76 Volvo auto transmission I had replaced under warranty...the rebuilt units had better service life than the original OE transmission. These transmissions were rebuilt at the tech center in NJ by Volvo techs in training.
Back in the day when i was still riding a harley... (dont even think about it)

anyways, i had this vrod and was hanging around allot on 1130cc.com where we all chatted about vrods

We had (have) this topic where we would ship expencive or rare to get tools to one another to do maintenance, the wherabouts of the tools got recorded and when the next guy needed them, they got shipped to him and so on.

Sort of a tool liberary that would only cost you shipping costs.

the tools got bought by a paypal account, where you made a contribution depending on what you had to spare. So that tools could get bought, and broken ones could get replaced. It worked out on the harley forum.

Not trying to pry loose the ts his equipment, but it would be an idea wouldnt it be?
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Old 10-26-2013, 02:00 PM   #48
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So it must be nice to have all the machine tools! I just did the same job in my shop with a torch for minor heat, a couple of screwdrivers, hammer and gear puller. I used my freezer too.
Knowledge is the key! YES, this could be done by the side of the road if you knew what you were doing!
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Old 10-26-2013, 02:14 PM   #49
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I'm going thru this now on my K1200GT.....have a final drive with about 1mm of slop. Drive has under 20k miles on it.

These new bikes are going to drive me insane. Glad we kept the old ones to remember the good times.
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Old 06-24-2014, 03:06 AM   #50
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Excellent job !
My compliments.

I would recall your attention on the heating temperature. If it is too high the crown is breaking !!
I had 1 successful bearing replacement and the second was a disaster. So do not go over the prescribed BMW temperature.
In short will do again the replacement, this time also the bearings of Pinion, and will use laser thermometer to avoid same mistake.
...
Red all the comments, unfortunately no dimensions posted.
Could anybody help with details please ?

I am in the process to replace all the bearings on the FD - at least will try, but never done the Pinion bearings.
Also with the poor tools I had - the last time I replaced the Crown FAG bearing - I broke the Crown itself and for 2 years was looking for used FD - got one to be recylced..


Could you please help with details ?


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Old 06-24-2014, 10:39 AM   #51
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Super write up. Not sure I will ever have the tools but helps understand what is involved. On my 2007 R1200GS there was a small play in the rear wheel since new, and I mean smaller than 1 mm, barely perceptible when rocking the wheel held from 12 and 6 o clock. At 65,000 miles I had the bearing replaced by a good dealer, as it was really beginning to feel more movement and not smooth when rotating the axle by hand - with wheel off. It was also noisy. Now at 110,000 still feels with no play and smooth. When talking with a German BMW rider who happens to work for a bearing company no less, he said it should last "for the life of the bike".. to me that just doesn't seem to be the case. But I will keep an eye on it and hope it doesn't develop a sudden failure, which I think is unlikely after that many miles. Wear and tear is acceptable as long as it's gradual.
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Old 06-24-2014, 12:34 PM   #52
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Glad this post got bumped - I know to never buy a GS with this design FD.
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Old 06-25-2014, 06:18 AM   #53
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I PM'd ElGringo last year to see how his rebuild was holding up. He got busy and hadn't ridden his bike much. So we don't know if it held up. My dealer said they had a few guys rebuild their FDs and they didn't hold up. I think they said after pressing the old bearings out and new ones in the aluminum housing lost its grip and they failed soon after the rebuild. Parts alone for the rebuild add up.

I had mine replaced and it cost about $2,000 after 35,000 miles. I think my Alaska trip did it in.


I thought I read somewhere here that this bearing does not get any of the FD oil. Is that true?






Quote:
Originally Posted by GSBruce View Post
Glad this post got bumped - I know to never buy a GS with this design FD.
Your loss! Still a great bike. It's a machine. No bike is perfect but the GS/GSA is up there.
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Old 06-25-2014, 06:42 AM   #54
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My dealer said they had a few guys rebuild their FDs and they didn't hold up. I think they said after pressing the old bearings out and new ones in the aluminum housing lost its grip and they failed soon after the rebuild. Parts alone for the rebuild add up.
I personally don't buy this, I know of an independent BMW shop in Utah that rebuilds FD's for around $500-800 and from what I recall they haven't had too many (if any) do-overs.
One concern though is that the tolerances (lash) need to be set correctly, I think that one issue with FD's is that this is not always done properly at the factory, regardless though the unit needs to be re-shimmed anytime you disturb the assembly or you're just asking for more trouble down the road.
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Old 06-25-2014, 07:12 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooteraug02 View Post
I PM'd ElGringo last year to see how his rebuild was holding up. He got busy and hadn't ridden his bike much. So we don't know if it held up. My dealer said they had a few guys rebuild their FDs and they didn't hold up. I think they said after pressing the old bearings out and new ones in the aluminum housing lost its grip and they failed soon after the rebuild. Parts alone for the rebuild add up.

I had mine replaced and it cost about $2,000 after 35,000 miles. I think my Alaska trip did it in.


I thought I read somewhere here that this bearing does not get any of the FD oil. Is that true?








Your loss! Still a great bike. It's a machine. No bike is perfect but the GS/GSA is up there.
The big bearing is sealed with its own lubricant and is not housed within the FD where the oil is. It sits just outside of that environment. So you heard right in that the big bearing is not lubricated by the FD oil. To me that is a plus as it keeps all foreign material and gear wear material out of the big bearing. BUT, it also means that to an extent - especially if you power wash your bike and direct the water in and around the wheel flange - you can get water in there. In my experience there was a little rust from the clip and the outer bearing surface as water sat there - but it did not get into the bearing races nor into the FD (despite it being more than 1mm out of tolerance from wear) - On that side the FD is sealed first by a nice big seal - then the two bearing seals itself and then another seal to the FD. I am not an engineer but the big bearing is very large and should be fine - but mine failed(out of spec) and I replaced it about 50k ago with not a glimmer of movement since.

I agree that some shops can rebuild and I have got Anton to do mine for about $600 all in... However in this day and age of technicians and not mechanics...it is hard to find a mechanic that understands proper gear lash etc. and the process and even formulas given in the BMW shop manual are quite extensive requiring pulling it apart - putting die on the gear surfaces - putting it together again and remember all with pullers and heat each time - lots and lots of work if you actually want to check the proper gear lash and I suspect (I could be wrong) but most shops probably take the factory shims for correct -and I don't blame them to an extent.

But - BIG but... do not assume it is done properly at the BMW factory. When I pulled mine apart I and Anton discovered that with the shims in place it was out of tolerance from the factory - too loose - so more valve lash than the spec direct from the factory. ON UKGSer they surmised some of the early 05/06 FD failures to be improper shimming from the factory and my bike proved that. When I dug deeper I found that my bike had the thinnest shims available from BMW's long list of replacement shims.... so I had to make my own from stainless shim stock and have them lazer cut to my drawings. If they had a set of cases that were machined a bit too little or too much then they would look at that and decide - how much it would cost to scrap them or chance failures and or warranty - they chose take a chance I figure. Big business... My fix worked really well and I have no problem now with 110+Km on my FD...

BMW seemed to have fixed the FD issues with bearing updates and size increases and numerous other fixes since then. (despite not admitting there ever was an issue.... publicly) I was told by BMW Canada directly that there was a bulletin saying that within an specified amount of time you could get a warranty replacement for the FD. At that time I had already fixed mine.
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Old 06-25-2014, 07:21 AM   #56
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mine was failing before Alaska trip also But at 65k I consider it acceptable replacement if one thinks of how many chains and sprockets would have replaced otherwise. The bearing is sealed and not in oil (the big grooved ball bearing that is on the side next to the wheel) Also afaik there is no shimming needed on the 1200 series, this was on older models. But I could be wrong. Now pushing 110 K miles I see no signs of play or wear and think dealer did a just as good if not better job than factory. They gave me all old parts in a plastic bag, and also replaced my brake disk which was worn out of spec. I forget what I paid for the whole job but also had the bike dropped off via delivery van and they were super convenient to deal with. This is my first motorcycle that I kept until this mileage, and have no plans to replace it for reasons others have stated.
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Old 06-25-2014, 04:59 PM   #57
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BMW seemed to have fixed the FD issues with bearing updates and size increases and numerous other fixes since then. (despite not admitting there ever was an issue.... publicly) I was told by BMW Canada directly that there was a bulletin saying that within an specified amount of time you could get a warranty replacement for the FD. At that time I had already fixed mine.
Mine was rebuilt out of warranty at no charge to me but dealer told me that if a newer updated unit was available they would have given me that instead but they were on backorder at the time. Would have liked to get that but am 15000kms on the rebuilt without issue.
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:06 PM   #58
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Nice write up. Looking at the seeming impossibility of fixing a R12 drive on the road makes me miss the simplicity of the previous design.
WOW just wow. Knowing how to do the 1100 & 1150, and how simple they are made me just question my recent thoughts of moving up to a 1200. It does not seem to me that I could get this job done out in the field no matter how crafty I might be!
To the OP nice job documenting this. I love seeing people get after things by themselves, and you sir did just that!!!
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Old 06-26-2014, 05:47 PM   #59
JimVonBaden
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WOW just wow. Knowing how to do the 1100 & 1150, and how simple they are made me just question my recent thoughts of moving up to a 1200. It does not seem to me that I could get this job done out in the field no matter how crafty I might be!
To the OP nice job documenting this. I love seeing people get after things by themselves, and you sir did just that!!!
The 1200 is not had to rebuild at all.
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:07 PM   #60
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The 1200 is not had to rebuild at all.
Perhaps so Mr Jim, but only AFTER you have all the tooling. Having done an 1150, i can say with confidence the 1150 f.d. is an easy task to approach and complete, the 1200 at this point in time i cannot achieve in my humble workshop.
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