Jmo

[bxr140]

Originally Posted by Apostolos

If you take two riders of equal skill, and put one on an f800gs and the other on a 1200gs, I think the person on the 800 in the "tight twisties" is going to win.

The R1200GS is really the best street handling adventure bike out there. The shorter wheelbase, smaller front wheel, and para/tele suspension give it a SIGNIFICANT advantage on the road over the 800. The 800 steers like a school bus off the showroom floor. The 1200 is damn near telepathic.

My F800 has the front end dropped ~20mm from stock. It still doesn't handle as good as my buddy's R1200GS Adventure in a back-to-back comparison.

[Apostolos]

Well, I can't argue against facts.

My statement is based on perception and not an experience of riding both bikes. It seems to me the lighter, more nimble and flickable 800gs would out perform the bigger 1200 in the tight twisties, but I could be wrong.

I still think a lot of it has to do with the road and the riders. I'm not a professional racer, but I feel like the tight twisties that I ride just about every day of my life, are ridden sometimes as fast as can be done safely. I just don't see how a bigger, heavier, bulkier bike would be an advantage on the roads I travel daily.

If someone wants to loan me a 1200gs, I'll do a comparative analysis and report back here the results.

God Bless,
David

[BillyD]

Originally Posted by tmex

....I felt like I was wringing it's neck for three days. I held my own, but I was working pretty hard at it. The 21" front is definitely a disadvantage in the twisties, and the lack of grunt coming out of turns was very noticeable. All and all, I was working a lot harder than the norm to hang with the group.

Now you know how I felt riding the 640 Adventure on the Fall Ride with this cast of characters, plus I had TKCs on at the time. Each day ended with vibration-induced blurred vision.

[tmex]

Originally Posted by BillyD

Now you know how I felt riding the 640 Adventure on the Fall Ride with this cast of characters, plus I had TKCs on at the time. Each day ended with vibration-induced blurred vision.

No doubt. There are some things (not many) that even I cannot ride through.

BTW, on the first day of that ride you were killing me in the dirt (and rocks and creek crossings) with the 640 versus the 12GS.

[bxr140]

Originally Posted by Apostolos

Well, I can't argue against facts.

I think you just did.

Originally Posted by Apostolos

It seems to me the lighter, more nimble and flickable 800gs...

That's my point--the 800 is NOT more nimble or more flickable than the 1200. I didn't want to believe it at first either, but its not even close until you start modifying the 800 and then compare it to a stock 1200.

Originally Posted by Apostolos

I just don't see how a bigger, heavier, bulkier bike

Park an 800 and a 1200 side by side, and the 800 is noticeably bigger (taller, longer, and just as wide), save for the motor.

The 1200 is certainly heavier (probably by ~50 pounds or so, based on real world numbers), and while that's almost a deal breaker off road, weight makes much less of a difference on road. Even though the 800 has a reasonably low CG, I think the 1200 is probably even lower as much of the extra mass is from that stupid tractor motor...further minimizing the negative handling effects of being heavier.

[tmex]

All true bxr. I ride with these guys all the time, and stomp them (slight exagerration) on the 12GS. I was riding on the edge just trying to keep up with the F8. They did not get any faster nor me slower. The F8 is not a street fighter.

[Apostolos]

You guys are making me want to go and test ride a 1200gs.

The white looks nice.



God Bless,
David

[AviatorTroy]

My little 800 bounces off the rev limiter pretty frequently when I try to hang w/ the big boys on the pavement.
Then you put her in the dirt and all the little bikes go flying by.

Yep.

Park an 800 and a 1200 side by side, and the 800 is noticeably bigger (taller, longer, and just as wide), save for the motor.

The 1200 is certainly heavier (probably by ~50 pounds or so, based on real world numbers), and while that's almost a deal breaker off road, weight makes much less of a difference on road. Even though the 800 has a reasonably low CG, I think the 1200 is probably even lower as much of the extra mass is from that stupid tractor motor...further minimizing the negative handling effects of being heavier.

Yep

I think it has to do more with the riders and the roads. I ride the tight twisties every day on my F800gs, and I'd be surprised if a big BMW 1200gs could hang with me.

Everyone thinks that the bike they ride is better, but I've ridden both and I think you are wrong. The rider makes most of the difference, but on the street a peaky 800 with a high CG vs a 1200 with more torque, more HP, and a lower CG? No comparison. Unless you are just that much better of a rider than everyone else on the 1200s. I doubt it.

[Apostolos]

Originally Posted by AviatorTroy

Unless you are just that much better of a rider than everyone else on the 1200s.

Finally, the truth has emerged.

I doubt it.

Anytime you want to bring your big, heavy, bulky, 1200gs with its negligibly higher horsepower and torque, up to the twisties where I live, we'll go for a ride and you won't doubt anymore.

The 800 combined with my superlative ridding ability will demand your obeisance.

God Bless,
David

[Flashback]

Originally Posted by bxr140

The R1200GS is really the best street handling adventure bike out there. The shorter wheelbase, smaller front wheel, and para/tele suspension give it a SIGNIFICANT advantage on the road over the 800. The 800 steers like a school bus off the showroom floor. The 1200 is damn near telepathic.

My F800 has the front end dropped ~20mm from stock. It still doesn't handle as good as my buddy's R1200GS Adventure in a back-to-back comparison.

That's cause the 1200 is a street bike Watch it flounder in the dirt. The telever front end, while not impossible to lift, is damn near impossible to lighten or lift. Recently did an on road/off road ride in a group that went sized out from the DR 400 to the 1200 GS. The only advantage the 1200 had the entire day was on the blacktop straightaways. In the dirt it was damn near impossible to ride. 4 inches of sand would roll it over on it's side and we'd end up walking/pushing it out.

My F8 and most of the smaller bikes could keep up with 1200GS in the twisties though it out accelerated everyone when it had room to move. I actually like the F8 in twisties and do think that it is more nimble and flickable than the 1200. The 1200 may move faster but that doesn't make it more agile or easy to ride.

Laying the F8 over knee down and scrape peg is a cinch. It's extremely stable at angle and I've found that I can out accelerate the bigger 1200s in the twisties due to the way the F8 throttles and handles. I can also pull tighter turns have found that I can out accelerate CBRs and other street fighters in tight turns (though not in the straights). TMEX is right on that the F8 is not a street fighter. A 140 on the rear fixed that school bus feel and made the bike act correctly for the way it was built. The 150 tire is just too wide for the height of the bike and made it ride like a tank.

I have no problem keeping pace with 1200 GS or RTs in all situations but the straightaways. There the extra 400ccs does a breakaway. Even seen the F8 match the bigger bikes on the twisty track and perform exceptionally well as a supermotard bike.

Don't get me wrong, I like the 1200GS, just like I like the F8. My feeling though is that the F8 is a far superior on/offroad adventure bike while the 1200 is a better setup for power on street riding.

[AviatorTroy]

Any time. Any time brother.

[Apostolos]

Originally Posted by Flashback

I actually like the F8 in twisties and do think that it is more nimble and flickable than the 1200. The 1200 may move faster but that doesn't make it more agile or easy to ride.

That's been my perception, but of course perception doesn't always equal reality. I'm glad you've got some experience with the 1200. I'd like to try it out some day.

A 140 on the rear fixed that school bus feel and made the bike act correctly for the way it was built. The 150 tire is just too wide for the height of the bike and made it ride like a tank.

I should also mention that I had Woody put narrower rims on my 800 (1.85 and 3.5), and I run a 140 in the rear. At first the bike seemed too flickable and more unstable in the corners, but now that I've gotten used to it, I think it's better for shredding the twisties.

Bring it on you big ol' 1200 hogs.

God Bless,
David

[Flashback]

Originally Posted by Apostolos

That's been my perception, but of course perception doesn't always equal reality. I'm glad you've got some experience with the 1200. I'd like to try it out some day.



I should also mention that I had Woody put narrower rims on my 800 (1.85 and 3.5), and I run a 140 in the rear. At first the bike seemed too flickable and more unstable in the corners, but now that I've gotten used to it, I think it's better for shredding the twisties.

Bring it on you big ol' 1200 hogs.

God Bless,
David

I ride quite a bit with the 1200 family. One mate tries to keep up with my F8 on his 1200 but admits that places I go and can ride one-handed are extremely difficult rides for him on the GSA. It's the same kind of difference that occurs when I try to keep up with the 450s on single track or the 450s try to keep up with either the F8 or 1200 on the street.

All around adventure and about an even mix of dirt/tarmac - F8 gets my vote hands down. Fast and aggressive street travel - 1200 (though the F8 can compete in many categories). Off road adventure and very little street - 450.

While I'm still using stock rims on the F8 I've also gone to a 2.75 instead of 3.0 front tire and will probably take the rear even skinnier than the 140 and run the D606 130's on it next.

Like you I was a little overwhelmed by the skinnier tires on such a heavy bike at first but am now sold. It's amazing how nimble and easily thrown around the F8 is on thinner tires. The only issue I have with skinny tires is in full throttle get-ups. I have to make sure I'm in control of where the bike is headed before the front tire leaves the ground. I've had to make a few hard touch downs with the front to keep the bike running straight when the powers on and the front tire is light/barely touching the pavement.

[Maniac28]

We all know the F8GS is the most versatile bike out there and that's why we own them. They do not excel at any particular type of riding. But name another bike that can, with not much more than a tire change, ride the la-barstow vegas, ride to Alaska, commute to work, ride mosquito pass in the rockies, ride HOME from the rockies, go sport touring, ride the divide, ride the TAT, ride every road in death valley...

OK, maybe the 950/990 can do all that too (owned one of them), but this is the BMW forum ;)

I like the R12GS and yes it's a better street bike than the 8GS by a pretty big margin. Handling is amazing and it has more power. Shaft drive. I like riding the 12GS. I might even buy one to go along with my F8.

Tmex, get yourself a Multistrada 1200, K1300S, or something like that... they are good for cathing up with your sport touring buddies.

The right tool for the right job...

[tmex]

Originally Posted by Maniac28

We all know the F8GS is the most versatile bike out there and that's why we own them. They do not excel at any particular type of riding. But name another bike that can, with not much more than a tire change, ride the la-barstow vegas, ride to Alaska, commute to work, ride mosquito pass in the rockies, ride HOME from the rockies, go sport touring, ride the divide, ride the TAT, ride every road in death valley...

OK, maybe the 950/990 can do all that too (owned one of them), but this is the BMW forum ;)

I like the R12GS and yes it's a better street bike than the 8GS by a pretty big margin. Handling is amazing and it has more power. Shaft drive. I like riding the 12GS. I might even buy one to go along with my F8.

Tmex, get yourself a Multistrada 1200, K1300S, or something like that... they are good for cathing up with your sport touring buddies.

The right tool for the right job...

Yeah, well my DUC998 testasretta monoposto will deal with that just fine. I use multistadas as slalom poles with that bike.