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Old 12-22-2013, 10:24 AM   #1681
theantipaul
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Originally Posted by Gany View Post
Sweet!

So do I have it correct that the headlight goes from the tower to the triple mount? Is it the triple mount that gives you the extra clearance from the stem or even without that its ok?

Had you completed the triple mount for the WRR? Last I heard you were working on it?
The side plates are different from the triple to the frame mounted version. The rest is the same.



There are a few WR450's out there, but haven't setup a WR250R yet, need to get one back in the shop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 640 Armageddon View Post
Paul, interesting idea about the moke up. Now where is the rest of the bike ?

I somehow have to compensate for Paul's photos so there we go....
We made some stands to mockup different configs, but Damn Dimitri, I don't rate that, it's very nice!

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Originally Posted by 640 Armageddon View Post
But for me, an everyday rider and occasional racer, it is very interesting to have a tower setup with, lets say, the minimum amount of money, get into the sport, see if I like it and then upgrade as necessary. At the moment, lots of people have iphones and if they dont with 100 USD they are there. Plus, (and take a good note at this ), there is no bike setup. No cables, no magnets, no electrics, no lighting.... Nothing. Plain and simple plug and play.
The iphone itself is more powerfull than any current tripmaster (maybe Tony knows more in this), but since I am a gadget guy, I love ALL the other functions in a mobile phone. Accelerometers, GPS logging, live tracking, SOS buttons the lot. This is a huge bonus for a privateer where you could log the trail and then share it and then upload data, times, etc... It will help the community grow big time.
Very well said Dimitri, this is where I'm at too. I've had mine on the bike for about a month with a few singletrack rides and a rally type 200+mile ride and am sold. This is staying on my bike.

After the few rally rides held out here as well as the Baja rally I've asked guys what was the main failure point. Overwhelmingly they are electrical, amazing amount of ICO failures as well as RB holder issues.

I don't think it can be stated enough especially for beginners the number of skills needed to learn, throw in equipment issues and frustration grows and the experience goes south fast. But eliminate that and a huge amount of the entry costs, then training and participating becomes downright enjoyable.
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Old 12-22-2013, 11:05 AM   #1682
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Originally Posted by theantipaul View Post
Is that HDPE? It looks really nice! Is is as durable as aluminum? Easy to work with? Anything special to think about before start working with the material?
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Old 12-22-2013, 11:29 AM   #1683
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Originally Posted by Linusp3 View Post
Is that HDPE? It looks really nice! Is is as durable as aluminum? Easy to work with? Anything special to think about before start working with the material?
Yes HDPE, has proved to be very durable so far, but the best properties for the tower were flex in crashes and vibration attenuation. It can be hard to hold while cutting and a dead sharp cutter will leave less deburring.
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Old 12-22-2013, 11:39 AM   #1684
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Yes HDPE, has proved to be very durable so far, but the best properties for the tower were flex in crashes and vibration attenuation. It can be hard to hold while cutting and a dead sharp cutter will leave less deburring.
What thickness are you using?
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Old 12-22-2013, 11:46 AM   #1685
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Originally Posted by Linusp3 View Post
What thickness are you using?
For the frame mounts the main ones are 3/8", then the ones that bolt to the RB mount are 1/4".



The triple mounts are 1/4" and have no problem holding all the weight of lights and nav gear.

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Old 12-22-2013, 01:20 PM   #1686
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For the frame mounts the main ones are 3/8", then the ones that bolt to the RB mount are 1/4".
No risk the threads of the bolts will be eating the plastic due to vibrations? Have you reinforced the drilled holes in any way?
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Old 12-22-2013, 08:00 PM   #1687
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Originally Posted by Linusp3 View Post
No risk the threads of the bolts will be eating the plastic due to vibrations? Have you reinforced the drilled holes in any way?
Hasn't been an issue yet with quite a few setups out there. Loctite and lock washers keep the plastic pretty captive.
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Old 12-23-2013, 03:07 AM   #1688
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Originally Posted by theantipaul View Post
any combination of buttons can be safely pressed at the same time and either set used at any given time.
Thanks for the reply Clever indeed, problem solved with only two relays. (To use push buttons you would need relays anyway). Personally I prefer the maximum simplicity of the toggle switch but relays can be reliable components...
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Old 12-23-2013, 07:48 AM   #1689
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HDB top clamp

To use the 2014 350 EXC 4 lamp computer protector with the top clamp, do I just unbolt the ktm computer from the oem location and slide it into the HDB protector? Is the computer harness long enough?

Thanks in advance
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:20 AM   #1690
theantipaul
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Originally Posted by toro618 View Post
To use the 2014 350 EXC 4 lamp computer protector with the top clamp, do I just unbolt the ktm computer from the oem location and slide it into the HDB protector? Is the computer harness long enough?

Thanks in advance
PM sent
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:22 AM   #1691
theantipaul
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Originally Posted by Carlos M View Post
Thanks for the reply Clever indeed, problem solved with only two relays. (To use push buttons you would need relays anyway). Personally I prefer the maximum simplicity of the toggle switch but relays can be reliable components...
With the relays you can also use a SPDT toggle as well, was thinking of making a mount for that as a backup too.
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:04 AM   #1692
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PM sent
Thank you, Paul.
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:48 PM   #1693
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Yeah I hear you D. I've had many iphones though and I know how fragile they can be (I broke 3). But again, for the odd race or specifically to try a nav rally, why not?

But in terms of accuracy, if the organiser has used a vehicle with a tripmeter, a GPS trip on the bike may not be accurate and there is no way of adjusting it to take account of the wheel diameter used on the orga vehicle when the course was set out. We know that if a car is used to set the course out, that over distance because a bike will take a different line in the corners, adjustments are needed to the trip which is where the auto calibration of the RNS is not just a nice thing to have, its a neccessity really. I would rather have the adjustability there because over say, 500 kilometres, what is a small discrepancy at the start is huge by the end.

Even if the orga has used gps, there will still be differences due to the lines taken on the course - that's not a problem if we're talking open desert, but if its twisty mountain tracks, that metre or half metre per corner of a vehicle line compared to a bike line adds up to a big difference - I want the ability to adjust it on the fly and I want every aid in accuracy and hence the chance of finishing.
It all depends how far pilo wants to take the development. Just think of the abilities of a phone compared to a tripmaster. You want a cable? I am sure, given the time and money they can do it. Temp sensors? ANT+ devices for heart rate? The thing is a datalogging device and it does not go cheaper than that. The auto calc function (if a cable is present) could be embedded in the code and, beleive me again, this is going to be huge if pilo does it. The processor on these things can do multitasking, run other tasks in the background, do live tracking, with the right apps you could see where your buddies are in the course, and on top of that you could play tetris during the breaks

I dont's see the device being used in Dakar for example, but, (and again I have researched as much as I could in this ....) the rally racers are what? 20% of the whole? 30%? There is 70% out there wanting to get into the rally experience, but don't want to spend 1500 USD for a nav setup. They buy a used roadbook, and with the iphone they are there.

The accuracy of the GPS. I hear you on that. I would use a qstarz bluetooth gps at 10Hz (connected with the iphone) and all the accuracy that I would need is there But, you have to remember that these people are there for the fun of it. When I am not racing, I like to get lost anyway. It's part of the game. Plus, if the course is logged, the ''author'' could put notes like RB tulips and an exclamation mark would pop on the screen to warn you for the upcoming dangers. Having trying to get into the Android programming in the last couple of years (got out of it though ), give somebody the time and you could do anything with these things.... These are computers, not tripmasters (and I am not trying to say something bad for the trips), but imagine a tripmaster with a GPS. Well, there are a couple and the first number in the price is 5 . Then imagine one with a three axis accelerometer. The cheapest accelerometer is 200 USD at the moment. The safety is there, the digits are font size 50 for the old people (no offence pilo and Paul ) and you could match the colors of your Nav setup, change the brightness... I see no boundaries in this, I see pilo programming most of the time
----
Regarding the relays in the swithces. Paul, by size, I meant the ''capacity'' of the relays. I used some super mini relays that could be hidden inside the multiswitch, but when the motor asked for more juice the got burned... I like the idea inside the RB.
The bonus is that you can have your normal switch and once this is damaged you go to your backup without the need to stop, see, fix etc. It fixes the motor lock so an added bonus is there.... You also use normal buttons so the cost is kept relatively low.

I got to know the problems with HDPE earlier this month when we tried to manufacture covers for the roadbook using HDPE. Lighter than thermoplastic we could save some weight. Then I got to trim the whole thing manually...
At high thickness it has adequate stifness. For me the big bonus with plastics is the vibration attenuation. With the right design these things will never crack due to vibration were in the aluminium, sometimes you have to change the design to make sure the cracks will not initiate and given the time and the bike this may not be true. That is why anti-vibration pads are all around. Come February I will have a good solution for a hybrid mounting bracket. Cheaper than AL, better performer as it will maintain shape, and lighter than air. Now I need a mold to make all the parts of the roadbook out of the same material

I am going back in the dungeon...
D.
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Old 12-24-2013, 01:29 AM   #1694
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Rallye navigation bracket photo thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by 640 Armageddon View Post
(Iphone Rally Blitz app) The auto calc function (if a cable is present) could be embedded in the code .

I think the only thing missing so far (and they are working on it) is indeed the remote. Once you can easily increment decrement the distance, the autocal is a simple algorithm comparing the actual distance with the adjustment made by the rider over a leg of the terrain. If every x distance you input a manual correction of y % distance the autocal function can apply a correcting factor to the next gps distances. It can even prompt the rider "was your last correction one i should consider for autocal (or were you lost?)".

D is right, the possibilities are endless , a smartphone nowadays is a hugely powerfull processor and it comes factory equipped with last generation GPS, accelerometers, 3 axis compass, memory to spare and it is cheaper than any purpose built nav instrument. Solve the interface and the "off road bike environment" survival and you can do a lot with it.
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Old 12-24-2013, 01:35 AM   #1695
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Originally Posted by 640 Armageddon View Post
It all depends how far pilo wants to take the development. Just think of the abilities of a phone compared to a trip master.

....

D.

Don't forget Angry Birds for the liaison section.

Why stop at mobile phones? 7'' tablets are a good size for a road book and all other information. Imagine a digital road book that is already colored and decimals blacked out.
I've recently got a Nexus 7 and I'm amazed how powerful the little thing is. Screen is very, very sharp and bright. It blows away any Apple product.
Is there any technical reason why the Rally app (or similar) can't run on Android?
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