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Old 05-20-2011, 05:51 PM   #31
Lifeon2whls
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I went down last week at about 40 mph and shredded my Scorpion textile pants. I've been researching pants quite a bit now and Motoport's were top on my list but I keep reading stories just like these about people who have the same story...Ordered jacket/pants and something was wrong so it had to be sent back and/or I ended up having to argue with Wayne. With the cost of their gear there is absolutely no excuse for any of this. Sure, these are custom made and people can make mistakes but it seems that the mistakes are more common than not. After being in business for as long as they have they should know how to PROPERLY tailor a garment. After reading this post and everyone elses I can't see spending this kind of money only to spend more to probably send it back and, wait a month or more to finally have my pants and HOPE that they eventually fit correctly.

Also, I go to the track quite regularly and have seen plenty of guys go down at over 100mph sliding across the pavement. Most of those same guys get up and go right back out again in those same LEATHERS with no tears...and many have multiple crashes in the same suit. I don't know where Wayne is getting his supposed "data" but his claims towards the strength of leather seems to be laughable.

I might be over stating things but when I can pick up a pair of Rev'it Cayenne Pro pants for less than 400 out the door and not have to worry about dealing with Wayne, I think I will take that route.

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Old 05-21-2011, 04:22 AM   #32
djg
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Both items I ordered from Motoport fit fine. Street jeans and GP2 jacket.
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Old 05-21-2011, 02:57 PM   #33
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djg, consider yourself fortunate.

life, the product is good, IF you get a good fit. Otherwise, as you noted, you have to be prepared for some hassle which, at the prices we're talking about, is inexcusable, IMHO. What Wayne needs is some competition which offers the kevlar textiles AND some customer service!
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Old 05-22-2011, 04:31 AM   #34
rickypanecatyl OP
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I mentioned in my last post that when the gear came there were lots of rough edges and loose threads. If they stay the way they are it's not a problem for me but it was a bit concerning seeing them when I first got them. Here are some pics of what I was talking about. BTW riding thru the rough stuff does not seem to affect it.











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Old 05-22-2011, 04:35 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeon2whls View Post

Also, I go to the track quite regularly and have seen plenty of guys go down at over 100mph sliding across the pavement. Most of those same guys get up and go right back out again in those same LEATHERS with no tears...and many have multiple crashes in the same suit. I don't know where Wayne is getting his supposed "data" but his claims towards the strength of leather seems to be laughable.

I might be over stating things but when I can pick up a pair of Rev'it Cayenne Pro pants for less than 400 out the door and not have to worry about dealing with Wayne, I think I will take that route.


That's a good point. Lots of Waynes most loyal customers come from people grateful after crashing. The reality is though Wayne does not have the only gear that can hold up to a crash.
I was hoping for the extra money motoport is it would also be a tad more comfortable in the hot weather and more practical in our rainy enviornment here.
Unfortunately it is the least comfortable and very impractical for rain.
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Old 05-22-2011, 09:36 AM   #36
muddbutt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickypanecatyl View Post
Here are some the specs on the motoport gear from their web site I was drawn to:

Protection:
"The Mesh Kevlar is 10 times stronger, and the Stretch Kevlar is 5 times stronger than leather and less than half the weight."
"Kevlar is the strongest fiber known to man."

Honestly its hard to believe that it is 10X stronger than leather, but the reality is, I'll probably be happy if it is just as strong as leather. Sometimes Wayne's site seems a bit over the top claiming to be the only company that uses Kevlar right or that does their stitching correctly. I do apprectiate the enthusiasm Wayne has for his product though... it comes thru not only on his web site, but in talking to him on the phone.

Comfort:

"Breathes better than nylon or leather, the best suit to wear for hot weather."
"Breathes better than Jeans in hot weather yet works better in cold weather."
"Intake zipper vents in the arms with exhaust vents in the back with all the Stretch Kevlar suits. With all the Mesh Kevlar no venting is necessary. The entire suit is a vent. While riding with air circulating Motoport guarantees that you'll be more comfortable in hot weather than if you wore a T-shirt and shorts, even at temperatures of 100F or more."

Practicality:
"The outer Mesh Kevlar does not absorb water and is dry in minutes after the rain stops.
Machine Washable. Will never stretch out or shrink."



Heck I know this is weird for most of you but I have a shower at work. If I was sweaty and stinky I could jump in the shower with my pants/shirt on, soap up, rinse, sit around in my underwear and be ready to go in 30 minutes. I think that's awesome!!
I have the motoport gp2 stretch kevlar. I got the high viz yellow, and the thing is bright and I wish I would have gotten a less bright color. I get noticed everywhere and people comment on it constantly. uggghhh... i have created for myself perhaps the most high viz unattractive suit imagineable. Going into a coffee shop sure turns heads. As in WTF?

Anyway, kevlar is much better than leather for tear resistance, but competition grade leather is better for abrasion resistance. So for sliding down asphalt at 100mph, competition grade leather is better. if you wanted to use your pants to hoist your truck off the ground, kevlar is better.

Here are some facts about different materials:
Drag Test - older test - the kevlar listed is not the same as air mesh.


"For the Drag Test, samples were stitched to a bag that held a 75-pound sandbag inside a milk crate, then dragged behind a pickup truck..."
  1. New, 100% Cotton Denim Jeans ----------------------- 3' 10"
  2. Senior Balistic Nylon ----------------------------------- 3' 10"
  3. Leather, Lightweight, Nude Finish, 2.25 oz/sq. ft. --- 4' 3"
  4. Leather, Fashion Weight, 1.75 oz/sq ft. ------------- 4' 4"
  5. Two-year-old 100% Cotton Denim Jeans ------------ 4' 5"
  6. Cordura Nylon Type 440 ----------------------------- 18' 3"
  7. Kevlar 29 Aramid Fiber, Style 713 ------------------ 22' 1"
  8. Leather, Competition Weight, 3 oz/sq. ft. -------- 86' 0"
Taber Test


For the Taber Test, the specimen was mounted on a rotating platform and scuffed by two rubber-emery grinding wheels." The numbers represent the number of revolutions until the fabric totally fails. A vacuum clears debris.
  1. Tear and Abrasion Strength by the numbers
  2. Pounds of force until fabric tears Abrasion cycles on pavement until fabric fails
  3. CottonJeans 4.5 pounds to tear 50 cycles to failure
  4. 70 Denier Standard Nylon 4.5 pounds to tear 165 cycles to failure
  5. 500 Denier Polyester 8 pounds to tear 180 cycles to failure
  6. 200 Denier Standard Nylon 7.5 pounds to tear 275 cycles to failure
  7. 500 Denier Cordura 22 pounds to tear 710 cycles to failure
  8. 620 Denier Cordura 35 pounds to tear 1200 cycles to failure
  9. Motorcycle Leather 80-110 pounds to tear 1200-1700 cycles to failure
  10. 1000 Denier Cordura 110 pounds to tear 1780 cycles to failure
  11. Air Mesh Kevlar 1260 pounds to tear 970 cycles to failure *** EDIT: Notice that airmesh is less abrasion resistant than stretch, this comes as a big surprise to many that believe that air mesh is superior ***
  12. Stretch Kevlar Blend 420lbs pounds to tear 1800 cycles to failure
  13. Leather, Competition Weight, (no tear weight available) 3 oz./sq. ft. 2600 cycles to failure

muddbutt screwed with this post 05-22-2011 at 09:41 AM
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Old 05-22-2011, 10:13 AM   #37
frontiercat
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???

I have to say, this story really makes an impact on my decisions with gear.

I don't know personally, as a business, how Motoport could not make this right...very detrimental to their reputation.

One bad review can wash out thousands of great reviews!
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Old 05-22-2011, 10:21 AM   #38
muddbutt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickypanecatyl View Post
I am the worst customer he has had in 40 years of business.

Both Wayne and his website say:
"The outer Mesh Kevlar does not absorb water and is dry in minutes after the rain stops.
Machine Washable. Will never stretch out or shrink."

This is extremely false and a bummer for my use. The 2nd day I rode with them I was doing some hot and sweaty off road riding and was crossing a creek at the end. I parked the bike and jumped in the river and swam around in them.
I had always envisioned doing this before I bought them because 1.) it feels so good in this heat, and 2.) the claim that it is dry in minutes after the rain stops.
When I got out of the river, I shook them out, had dry underwear on and then road home an hour on the hiway at speeds of about 100 k/hour. The gear was still very wet when I got home.

.
Oh my god, i am LMAO!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickypanecatyl View Post

(He also says the material resists getting wet for about 30 minutes though when I asked him about that he clarified that he meant the stretch Kevlar.... rain penetrates both the stretch and the mesh kevlar in moments .
Do continue...



Quote:
Originally Posted by rickypanecatyl View Post
I personally have never worn anything that feels as gross next to my skin when I’m sweaty and wet than the motoport gear. I just went for a “bad” ride for the first time in a week last night with just jeans and a t shirt. It felt absolutely glorious next to the motoport gear.
On the brightside, you would never have appreciated how good jeans and a t-shirt feel on a bike without first having ridden with motoport airmesh gear...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickypanecatyl View Post

No material makes me sweat as much as the motoport; and soon I get it on I am flowing like a faucet! I certainly is better when you are moving though I can’t feel air coming thru the mesh. Of course I can see light thru it and no I don’t understand why I can see thru it but not feel air thru it.
Please continue ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickypanecatyl View Post
As a funny side note just try to take Wayne up on one of his “claims” or “guarantees”. He screams, “How could I make money if I took back every suit built to the custom size/color specs of the customer?
I pointed out 1.) a guarantee isn’t contingent on you making money 2.) they were not built to my size/color specs but to his and 3.) I thought I was the only customer who ever had a complaint anyways? (I think that is what precipitated the “you’re the worst customer I’ve had in 40 years” email. )




Unfortunately, you did not know that being slightly critical of your motoport gear to wayne is not a smart move. You migh as well have called his mother a whore.

But, since you spent so much on your motoport gear, you need to understand the phases of airmesh motoport gear..


  • UNPACKING DISAPPOINTMENT: After the initial shock that all airmesh motoport users have when their packages arrive and they try on their gear, you have to make the decision.

a) deal with wayne. Wayne is notoriously volatile if you are even slightly critical of his gear.

b) keep it. You always end up selecting b, but some less experienced people such as yourselves choose A first, talk to wayne, and then end up going with b. Save yourself the trouble and go with b right off the bad unless the fit is so bad you cannot.


  • FIRST TIME TRYING IT ON: You will learn the phrase, "Once on the motorcycle, it fits great." or "it breaks in." In other words, you get "used to it." This means your brain cannot resolve the insane price you paid and your inability to return it, thus it tells you to get used to it.

I have the stretch kevlar gp2, infinitely better, more comfortable than the airmesh. It doesn't breathe at all though. I have gotten used to it. Stretch kevlar is much better than airmesh for abraison resistance and for comfort and it looks better.
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Old 05-22-2011, 11:11 AM   #39
rickypanecatyl OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muddbutt View Post




Unfortunately, you did not know that being slightly critical of your motoport gear to wayne is not a smart move. You migh as well have called his mother a whore.

But, since you spent so much on your motoport gear, you need to understand the phases of airmesh motoport gear..



  • UNPACKING DISAPPOINTMENT: After the initial shock that all airmesh motoport users have when their packages arrive and they try on their gear, you have to make the decision.

a) deal with wayne. Wayne is notoriously volatile if you are even slightly critical of his gear.

b) keep it. You always end up selecting b, but some less experienced people such as yourselves choose A first, talk to wayne, and then end up going with b. Save yourself the trouble and go with b right off the bad unless the fit is so bad you cannot.



  • FIRST TIME TRYING IT ON: You will learn the phrase, "Once on the motorcycle, it fits great." or "it breaks in." In other words, you get "used to it." This means your brain cannot resolve the insane price you paid and your inability to return it, thus it tells you to get used to it.

Wayne was pretty clear that I had no option other than keep it or sell it on E bay. He sends out a sheet with the gear stating that he has a 100% satisfaction with the gear gaurantee but on the phone he was very clear that there are no refunds and that for any mistakes in sizing it would just take me seconds to get it fixed in "my part of the world" so no sense bothering him.

Interesting data on the tear strength/abrasion strength Mud butt. I didn't follow the test though with the 75 lbs sand bag. Is the number there the distance it got dragged before burning thru?

So the high tear strength makes sense with my experience that it doesn't tear when riding fast thru strong thorns that reach out and grab me and try to pull me off the bike.
I agree that for crashing on the road the numbers for abrasion resistance are much more important than tear strength. With that in mind, I'd never pick the Air Mesh material over the Stretch again. The stretch Kevlar is so much more comfortable and looks better. I don't think the "mesh" breathes any better; it looks like a mesh weave but it doesn't breathe like a mesh weave....
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Old 05-22-2011, 01:43 PM   #40
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mudd, Are you a shrink?! If not, you ought to be!! Awesome insights!!

I know there are many satisfied customers on this forum, but unless I could get personally fitted, based on my experience, I would NOT order from Motoport/Cycleport again. The products are great; dealing with Wayne to get alterations for a proper fit (without paying another arm and leg!) is simply not worth the grief!
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Old 05-22-2011, 02:23 PM   #41
davidji
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muddbutt View Post
Here are some facts about different materials:
Drag Test - older test - the kevlar listed is not the same as air mesh.


"For the Drag Test, samples were stitched to a bag that held a 75-pound sandbag inside a milk crate, then dragged behind a pickup truck..."
  1. New, 100% Cotton Denim Jeans ----------------------- 3' 10"
  2. Senior Balistic Nylon ----------------------------------- 3' 10"
  3. Leather, Lightweight, Nude Finish, 2.25 oz/sq. ft. --- 4' 3"
  4. Leather, Fashion Weight, 1.75 oz/sq ft. ------------- 4' 4"
  5. Two-year-old 100% Cotton Denim Jeans ------------ 4' 5"
  6. Cordura Nylon Type 440 ----------------------------- 18' 3"
  7. Kevlar 29 Aramid Fiber, Style 713 ------------------ 22' 1"
  8. Leather, Competition Weight, 3 oz/sq. ft. -------- 86' 0"
Taber Test


For the Taber Test, the specimen was mounted on a rotating platform and scuffed by two rubber-emery grinding wheels." The numbers represent the number of revolutions until the fabric totally fails. A vacuum clears debris.
  1. Tear and Abrasion Strength by the numbers
  2. Pounds of force until fabric tears Abrasion cycles on pavement until fabric fails
  3. CottonJeans 4.5 pounds to tear 50 cycles to failure
  4. 70 Denier Standard Nylon 4.5 pounds to tear 165 cycles to failure
  5. 500 Denier Polyester 8 pounds to tear 180 cycles to failure
  6. 200 Denier Standard Nylon 7.5 pounds to tear 275 cycles to failure
  7. 500 Denier Cordura 22 pounds to tear 710 cycles to failure
  8. 620 Denier Cordura 35 pounds to tear 1200 cycles to failure
  9. Motorcycle Leather 80-110 pounds to tear 1200-1700 cycles to failure
  10. 1000 Denier Cordura 110 pounds to tear 1780 cycles to failure
  11. Air Mesh Kevlar 1260 pounds to tear 970 cycles to failure *** EDIT: Notice that airmesh is less abrasion resistant than stretch, this comes as a big surprise to many that believe that air mesh is superior ***
  12. Stretch Kevlar Blend 420lbs pounds to tear 1800 cycles to failure
  13. Leather, Competition Weight, (no tear weight available) 3 oz./sq. ft. 2600 cycles to failure
Thanks for the numbers muddbutt! Where did they come from?

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Old 05-22-2011, 03:17 PM   #42
othalan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muddbutt View Post
Taber Test


For the Taber Test, the specimen was mounted on a rotating platform and scuffed by two rubber-emery grinding wheels." The numbers represent the number of revolutions until the fabric totally fails. A vacuum clears debris.
  1. Tear and Abrasion Strength by the numbers
  2. Pounds of force until fabric tears Abrasion cycles on pavement until fabric fails
  3. CottonJeans 4.5 pounds to tear 50 cycles to failure
  4. 70 Denier Standard Nylon 4.5 pounds to tear 165 cycles to failure
  5. 500 Denier Polyester 8 pounds to tear 180 cycles to failure
  6. 200 Denier Standard Nylon 7.5 pounds to tear 275 cycles to failure
  7. 500 Denier Cordura 22 pounds to tear 710 cycles to failure
  8. 620 Denier Cordura 35 pounds to tear 1200 cycles to failure
  9. Motorcycle Leather 80-110 pounds to tear 1200-1700 cycles to failure
  10. 1000 Denier Cordura 110 pounds to tear 1780 cycles to failure
  11. Air Mesh Kevlar 1260 pounds to tear 970 cycles to failure *** EDIT: Notice that airmesh is less abrasion resistant than stretch, this comes as a big surprise to many that believe that air mesh is superior ***
  12. Stretch Kevlar Blend 420lbs pounds to tear 1800 cycles to failure
  13. Leather, Competition Weight, (no tear weight available) 3 oz./sq. ft. 2600 cycles to failure
What is the source for these numbers? They are interesting, but I question the accuracy because of my own experience.

I have full motoport gear, pants made of Stretch Kevlar, jacket made of Air Mesh Kevlar. A few months ago I went down on the highway because of a suddenly flat tire, estimated speed about 60MPH. I had no injuries at all (not even sore or bruised) thanks to the motoport gear, but the pants wore through at my hip and needed significant repair. The jacket shows a few scuff marks in a few places (shoulder mostly), but no repairs were needed. The scuff marks are easy miss if you are not looking for them.

Based on that experience, I have a hard time believing the abrasion resistance of the Air Mesh Kevlar is less than the Stretch Kevlar. Perhaps there is another explanation for why the jacket looks almost undamaged, but from what I remember of the crash I cannot think of one....

Which is not to say I am completely delighted with the gear. It does NOT dry quickly when it gets wet, it is too bulky to comfortably walk around town in, and the pockets on the jacket are poorly designed. Wayne is also uncompromising in his designs to the point he would not even consider some perfectly reasonable design changes I wanted.

Yet overall I would still buy it again in spite of those drawbacks.
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Old 05-22-2011, 06:29 PM   #43
mitch
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Oh dear, after reading this thread I'm in a quandary, I am coming over next month to attend the D to D and the BMW rally and was going to Motoport for a new jacket and maybe pants. Now I'm not sure weather to bother or not, to detour down to San Marcos,its a couple of hundred miles out of my way, if they will not breathe or dry as claimed, I may go to a BMW rally 3 jacket, has anybody got any feedback on one?.
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Old 05-22-2011, 07:02 PM   #44
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Glad I didn't...

Read this thread before I bought my pants from Motoport.....I love them. Have the street jeans, stretch on back, mesh on front. Sent a pair of my jeans in and the ones I received fit identically. They breathe much better than my BMW summer pants and Olympia Airlglide pants.

I like them so much I bought a jacket from another inmate (yet to be received)....and if it does not fit well, I'll order one from Wayne. I get hot easily, and this is the coolest gear I've found. I'm willing to pay for comfort and protection.....will still wear my Stich in the cooler weather....
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Old 05-22-2011, 08:11 PM   #45
muddbutt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by othalan View Post
What is the source for these numbers? They are interesting, but I question the accuracy because of my own experience.
There are two sources I used. I used motoports website for the taber tests that included the kevlar gear - as it is hard to find any independent test results on his particular fabrics.

Drag test
http://www.trainwreckstudios.net/abrasion/road.html

Taber Test
http://www.trainwreckstudios.net/abrasion/taber.html

Motoport Taber Test
http://web.archive.org/web/200503092...1-800-777-6499 - Original from 2005 shows airmesh being failing at 970 cycles, and stretch failing at 1800 cycles

There are several problems with motoports data, but the biggest is his data on competition grade leather - he lists it as abrading between 1200 and 1700 cycles. This range makes it equivalent to cordura 620 and less abrasion resistant than cordura 1000. I can explain the obvious problems with such data, but any serious racer that has seen a leather suit after a 70 mph getoff and airmesh pants hole on a 70mph getoff, understands that this is a serious problem.
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