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Old 05-25-2011, 01:29 AM   #61
Simplyred
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I do not owe any of Wayne's products and I am not likely to in the future either. Further I do not know him or his business, have never dealt with him and likely will not do so in the near future as well.

This being said, there are several things that can be said about this.

All products are being advertised with a "tad" more positive characteristics as they realistically have. That is nothing new. Customers should already have gotten used to that and count it all in. Most of the time, the guarantee terms do say it all.

Having read this whole thread, I would never ever buy anything from this Wayne guy, even not when I got it for free. The anger and frustration of bad customer service, yes even plain rudeness, are simply not worth it as I see it.

On the other hand, customers can be jerks as well, and we should also look at our own attitude towards the shop owner as this influences the behavior of the shop owner. We can not expect him to keep nice and polite if we ourselves become harsh and rude. He is just a human being.

My wife is a manager of a large shop and gets confronted with customers a lot. She has a lifetime of experience with that and loves the interaction with customers. She is dedicated to make the shopping experience work for the customer and have them leave with a smile and satisfied with regards to their purchase. The number of sales orientated trainings she has every year is high and a good estimate as to how important a good contact with a customer is. BUT. I also hear the sometimes staggering stories she sometimes tells me when she comes at home, and which stories are increasingly shocking! Customers are changing. Their behavior is in more then in earlier days rude, shocking and sometimes criminal. You would not believe what "customers" are trying to pull of with an innocent face!
I am sure when I would be behind the counter in some cases I would have ended up being taken away by the police....

Should the stories about Wayne's behavior after the sale be true, then there is of course NO excuse for this. The guy is not only getting in his own way (you can not keep that secret for long, people WILL start to avoid you especially when there is competition) but also (again: should this be true) a real pain in the ass for his customers.

But I tend to agree with someone who wrote before that a medal has two sides, and we did not hear the other side. That has to be taken into account.

But all heared, as said, I would never ever purchase anything from him. For me, customer service is almost more important then the actual product. Because without it, the actual product most of the time does not even work (or does not work as it could or should).

And of course, measuring stuff for sewing is difficult and even for people who know the procedures it can be difficult, I understand that. But if you are a professional in that area that is what you already knew and that is what you always take into account in your customer contact. You should implement that factor in your procedures and the contacts with your customer.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 05-25-2011, 08:10 AM   #62
inmate-n00b
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Originally Posted by jimmex View Post
Is this the OP? WTF?
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/tron-guy

Know your meme, homie!!!!

Also, Wayne is a good guy.
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Old 05-26-2011, 12:44 AM   #63
rickypanecatyl OP
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On a positive note here I went for a ride the other night at a place called Genting Highlands. Genting Highlands is about 5-6000' above sea level and at 1:00 in the morning the temp was probably 70F and 45% humidity as oppossed to 83F and 85% humidity back down in Kuala Lumpur.

Under those conditions the motoport gear didn't feel bad at all. I mentioned before that to me it feels really gross next to my skin when it is wet which is nearly all the time at sea level but it actually feels fine next to my skin when it is dry.

I could see someone buying the gear and loving it if they never rode in hot/humid conditions, didn't expect it to dry out quickly after washing and had it fit the first time and never had to deal with Wayne AFTER the sale. I agree he is above average fun and informative (though lots of false info) to talk to before/during the sale.
I still don't see the place/point of the mesh kevlar as oppossed to the stretch kevlar ecspecially if muddbutts #'s on the abrasion resistance is true. The stretch is so much more comfy, dries just as fast (or slow from my perspective ), and looks better.
The only thing its better at undisputatedly is tear strength or as muddbutt put it lifting your truck up off the ground.
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Old 05-26-2011, 06:08 PM   #64
muddbutt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickypanecatyl View Post
[SIZE=3][COLOR=darkorange]
I still don't see the place/point of the mesh kevlar as oppossed to the stretch kevlar ecspecially if muddbutts #'s on the abrasion resistance is true. The stretch is so much more comfy, dries just as fast (or slow from my perspective ), and looks better.
The only thing its better at undisputatedly is tear strength or as muddbutt put it lifting your truck up off the ground.
The motoport stretch is made out of keprotec (dynatec,lycra, kevlar), which is a great material. I am not sure what the air mesh is made out of.

What is interesting is that from 2005-2009, wayne had the following on his website:

Cycles to failure is a taber test of abrasion. A higher # is better - meaning it is more abrasion resistant.

2005-2009 on Motoports website
  • 1000 Denier Cordura 110lbs to tear 1780 cycles to failure
  • Air Mesh Kevlar 1260lbs to tear. 970 cycles to failure
  • Stretch Kevlar Blend 420lbs to tear, 1,800 cycles to failure

Currentlly
  • 1000 Denier Cordura 110lbs to tear 1780 cycles to failure
  • Air Mesh Kevlar 1260 lbs to tear, 1,800 cycles to failure THIS IS NEW
  • Stretch Kevlar Blend 420lbs to tear, 1,800 cycles to failure


It seems surprising to me that motoport would be wrong about the key selling point of his kevlar clothing- the thing that makes his product unique - for so long.


Maybe he has changed the airmesh fabric to make it exactly the same as the stretch. Or maybe they reported the numbers incorrectly in the past, or maybe now they are correctly reporting the numbers. Somebody might want to email motoport and ask them why their cycles to failure on the airmesh and stretch are now EXACTLY the same.

I think the worst customer wayne has ever had in 40 years should send that email question directly to wayne.

EDIT: Spelling
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Old 05-27-2011, 01:11 PM   #65
Phil Y
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ricky,

Guess you have to ask yourself and answer honestly, is there anythng, besides a light cotton t-shirt and boxers of the same material, which would be comfortable in your climate?

I've tried Bohn armor, which fits under your outer clothing--the armor didn't breathe and I got hot/sweaty underneath each piece, regardless of what I was wearing over the armor. I've got Motoport mesh which breathes pretty well, but stll gets hot/sweaty underneath each piece of armor.

Fortunately, I don't have to deal with the kind of heat/humidity that you have there.

Maybe someday, someone will invent an abrasion/tear resistant, BREATHABLE, WICKING fabric AND ARMOR, like all the new poly sportswear now available!
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Old 05-27-2011, 01:29 PM   #66
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So sorry to hear about your negative experience. I really wish Wayne offered a money back return policy, as I think he could resell these easily enough in a clearance section on his website. As many have said, a guarantee is only as good as the customer service department behind it, and posts like yours have certainly cost Motoport some orders.

My experience was exactly like yours (positive) up to the point where I opened the box. At that point, my experience continued to be positive, while yours obviously did not. I ordered by phone and received a Stretch Kevlar Marathon Jacket that fits me perfectly. My measurements are probably pretty standard, so that may be a factor. I only mention this so that you will all know that I am a satisfied customer, and had no issues which needed to be dealt with by Wayne.

The three points I wanted to make are these:

1- The website and measuring instructions could be improved. I would think that there must be a more thorough and more accurate method when it comes to measuring for a garment that costs as much as these do? I remember Land's End company tried doing a regional body scanner for a while, but I think it didn't work out. If I were in this business, I would send a DVD to every potential customer that walked them through every step of measuring, and included a clear set of written instructions as well, so that they could go to any professional tailor and have their measurements verified. The cost would be minimal, and the reduction in potential customer complaints would be significant. That would be step one. Step two would be to have a QC person compare every finished garment with every intial measurement sheet before they go out the door. The cost and headache to return something because of a fit issue is simply unacceptable at this price point. One bad review like this in a public forum really becomes the turd in the punch bowl.

2- My second point is that I think every manufacturer of clothing or sleeping bags or any product that will be used to cover the body out of doors has faced the problem that Motoport is having with accurately describing performance in hot, cold, wet and dry. Due to the wide range of personal tolerance levels of these four variables, I think we will always be faced with a problem of knowing exactly how a product will work for us individually. You may rightly point out that claims made by a manufacturer regarding temperature ranges should be accurate, but I think the only claim that can be accurately made is whether a garment is waterproof or not. As an example, I find Gore Tex to be absolutely non-breathable for me. It is waterproof, but I sweat as much in a Gore Tex product as I do in a coated nylon product. I know people who love the stuff and swear by it, but if you were to review it based upon my experience, you would say it is a ripoff of false claims.

3- My final comment is about customer service in general. I wonder if your experiences are similar to mine in this regard? In my purchase experiences, I find most customer service to be poor, and am shocked and delighted when it is not. I am continually amazed that companies seem to place no importance in this most critical area of their business, and rely on a heavy volume stream of customers to be able to ignore the rest. Now that information is just a few keystrokes away, I would think that concern for their reputations would make every business, but most especially a custom business, pay special heed to providing excellent customer service. A good businessman realizes that sometimes a customer may not ever be placated, no matter what the redress includes, but the effort still has to be made. It may even cost the business their profit margin on that one transaction in order to make it right, but that is what you do if you are sincere about standing behind your product (as opposed to standing behind your customer and saying "You're going to feel a little pressure...").
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Old 05-27-2011, 03:43 PM   #67
ShimrMoon
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You know what's missing here? Comments from Wayne himself. He's an inmate and has commented numerous times elsewhere on this site.

Well Wayne, what say you???
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Old 05-28-2011, 12:30 AM   #68
rickypanecatyl OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShimrMoon View Post
You know what's missing here? Comments from Wayne himself. He's an inmate and has commented numerous times elsewhere on this site.

Well Wayne, what say you???
That's only Fair! Here are some of my comments to Wayne’s and Wayne’s responses to me. In light of what MuddButt said about Wayne being notoriously volatile towards ANY critisism of his product I now realize why I earned the distinction of the worst customer in 41 (I mistakenly wrote 40) years. Looking at my letter to Wayne I realize I was being a jerk (sorry Wayne) but that was after numerous attempts to resolve everything civilly!


Here is my letter to Wayne re sizing and placing of the knee armour. (Myself in black and quoting Wayne in purple):



And here are my comments to Wayne re the wrong size cargo pockets (Myself in black and Wayne in purple):




Here are my comments to him re calling him on the fact his gear doesn't dry as claimed. Myself in black and direct quote from Waynes website in purple.



Me asking Wayne for a refund:



And here is Waynes response to me. This time Wayne is in black, when he quotes himself it is red and when he quotes me it is in purple:




And my final comment to Waynes answer. Colors all screwed up here - I'm red, Wayne is purple but the begining black is him and ending is me :) :




Obviously there were tons of phone calls and other letters between us; those are just a sample. I certainly was out of line to speculate on his marriage - I'm sure that didn't help the situation go smoother.

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Old 05-28-2011, 04:26 AM   #69
Simplyred
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Having read all of this, this Wayne character is a complete idiot in my humble opinion. He does not have a clue on how to handle customer complaints in an effective and customer relationship saving way. He urgently needs to take a course in handling customer complaints. Basically, the best known rule is: First repair your relationship with the customer, then repair the complaint with your product. He seems to do neither one, and just dumps you as a customer.
Very bad. If this was a manager in my company, he would be walking out the door a few minutes later.
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Old 05-28-2011, 07:10 AM   #70
GHanson
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I had been thinking about giving Motoport gear a try, but I'm glad I saw this thread. My good, old, reliable Darien is looking a lot better since I washed it.

The kevlar segment of the riding suit world needs some competition, the best remedy for situations like this.
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Old 05-28-2011, 07:30 AM   #71
ShimrMoon
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Wow, sounds like a lot of drama. I was considering a pair of Motoport kevlar mesh police style pants for the summer months because everything else I've tried on or seen is cheap, chinese crap that just won't work for me. Now I'm not so sure. I have Aerostich gear for 3 seasons but it's brutal in the summer.

Too bad someone doesn't come up with some competition in the kevlar product line. Seems like a great product for riders wanting serious but vented summer gear.
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Old 05-28-2011, 11:04 AM   #72
Jim Glauz
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I have a Motoport Stretch Kevlar Marathon jacket and pants. For me the order process was simple and straight forward. It took about four phone calls, thourough study of the measuring methods from the web site and then checking five or six times to confirm the measurements.
(I have found in my business when I give conflicting specifications I am opening the door to interpretation and may not get what I really want.) I received my suit and it fits great. I had a good experience. I am sorry yours was not the same.

I didn't study the thread thoroughly but it sounds like you both had a ton of time invested in non productive solutions. From Motoport's perspective I can understand why a $400.00 return shipping fee is not covered. To my knowledge most companies don't cover return shipping. The Motoport thread is a mile long and talks of people sending gear back for alterations. If you had just sent the gear back, I am sure Motoport would have made right on the pockets.

I generally take most claims with a grain of salt. If a particular claim is vital to my using the product, I will then thoroughly investigate that claim.
If I saw the "drys in minutes claim", my "Warning Will Robinson, Warning Will Robinson" button would have gone off. My life experience has shown that different fabrics have different dry times. If the fabric is thin and fast drying , there is air circulation with low humidity, then the fabric might dry in minutes. But again, my life experience has shown that a suit with multi layers and a ton of armor would never dry in minutes. I don't mean to offend, but to me this is just common sense.

We are all humans. We all make mistakes and we all have egos.
I deal with subcontractors, vendors and clients on a daily basis so I often ask myself what is my goal? My goal is get the job done, smoothly, with quality, with as little conflict as possible and keep everybody on the same side of the fence and happy. I have found when I try to rough people up, they may do what I want, but they will now be on the other side of the fence. Once on the other side, they will not be motivated to please. Just my two cents.


Being a small bussiness man myself I appreciate and support other small businesses, especially those dedicated to producing quallity products and services such as Motoport. If you want a suit that is superior in quallity, very protective, practical and custom built, without designer frills, fru fru and a bunch of unnecessary seams that lead to seam failure, I highly recommend Motoport.
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Old 05-28-2011, 02:21 PM   #73
Phil Y
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Jim,

Your gear arrived, fits and performs as you expected. Consider yourself fortunate.

Ricky spent about $1300 and his gear didn't fit, wasn't as ordered (not even the right color!), he was disappointed that various characteristics were not as claimed and he's trying to deal with this situation (and pay for shipping) from halfway around the world. He, like I, would expect an initial response from Wayne to be to the effect, "I'm really sorry. we screwed up, what can we do to correct this situation?"

That would set the tone for a civil, productive, problem-resolving discourse.

Unfortunately, when the initial response to a complaint is, in effect, a condescending, defensive, "We didn't screw up, you're in idiot, it's all your fault, you should be glad I saved you from your own incompetence," most of us would immediately or eventually react as Ricky did. It appears that he at least tried to be civil but Wayne's intransigence led to their less-than-productive exchanges.

True, there are idiot customers out there, but even idiots deserve to be treated civilly, at least initially. That alone would reduce the number of "idiot custmers" out there!

Motoport gear is great.

Wayne is his own worst advertising!
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Old 05-28-2011, 07:04 PM   #74
takman
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I just got some Motoport race gloves. They fit nice but I'll have to see how well they breathe in Bangkok since they're thick like Winter gloves.

This thread has held me off from ordering some airmesh pants for now. Rather than buy $500+ pants, I decided to just repair/reinforce my last pair of mesh pants with some thick leather over the kneepads and side of the thighs. Only cost me $60 too.

Sounds like Motoport needs to make more detailed and more idiot proof sizing instructions as well as better internal fulfillment processes. I'll still give them a try in the future for new pants and a jacket but for now I'll stick with my old stuff.

You can have the greatest product in the world, but if a company gets a bad reputation it will go out of business. Just look at whorehouses, great products but bad reputations :-)
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Old 05-28-2011, 07:27 PM   #75
muddbutt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takman View Post

You can have the greatest product in the world, but if a company gets a bad reputation it will go out of business. Just look at whorehouses, great products but bad reputations :-)
You might want to rethink the whole whorehouse analogy. Men love whorehouses. If they didn't have laws, there would be a whorehouse on every corner.
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