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Old 05-29-2011, 04:10 AM   #76
Simplyred
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Glauz View Post
We are all humans. We all make mistakes and we all have egos.
I don't think this thread is about "humans making mistakes". Of course, we all are humans AND we all can make mistakes. That is the Law of Nature.

It all comes down to what you DO about your mistakes. How you handle them once they are made. And that is clearly where this Wayne character goes in the wrong. As a shop-owner, you need to stay professional at all times. Even when customers are acting up or wrong themselves (which I do not think was the case here by the way!).
If you read Wayne's e-mail responses more clearly, this is everything else BUT professional. Instead, I personally think it is immature to a level of childish, unprofessional and ineffective, yes even counterproductive as you can see in this thread.

And I also do not think this is a plain "mistake" as you say. This is way more then a simple mistake. This is something that has to do with wrong procedures being in place and handling the results coming from that.
As you can see in more Motoport threads here, there way too often is something wrong with measurements. All the time customers get the blame of Wayne because "they would not have measured right". Should this really be the case, then Wayne is to blame for not correcting these procedures which clearly cause so many problems. That is his task as an entrepreneur.
He fails at that as I see it. Regardless of the product quality. Product quality is only a part of customer satisfaction.

Where he really goes wrong is in the unprofessional attitude towards complaining customers. That is a very dangerous mistake. Let me tell you a small story.

In my little town of 16.000 inhabitants, there were only 3 little bookstores. One of them was pretty large, and it also sold small household appliances and stuff you would need for school. It was a shop founded by (let us call him "X") X's father who did rather well with the shop his whole life.
When X's father got older, he handed the business to his son, X. At that time, the business was well established in the town, and well respected.
However, X took it all for granted. He showed no respect to his customers and displayed a very arrogant attitude. He showed off his money (earned by his dad obviously!) and became a real annoyance to his customers and so, to the village itself. He himself put all elements for the short-circuitry in place. The only thing which was missing for the Big Bang was the electricity. That came a few months later, when he locked up (!!!!) one of his employees in a closet just for not obeying his wishes fast enough. The poor girl was locked of for several hours. Once she was freed by a customer, the word came out to the village, and from that point forward, no soul ever bought anything in that store ever again as if it was decided in the community in some kind of coming together. Which it was NOT. All people just thought alike. Only 3 months later, the business went broke. The store for which X's dad had worked his whole life very hard, went down the drain in only a few months!

Moral of this story: Respect your Customers, Respect your Employees.
A company is hardly anything more then the community of its customers.

By treating your customers as idiots, you treat your company as an idiot.
In fact, you need to be one to do so.
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Old 05-29-2011, 05:55 AM   #77
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I'll bet you were glad when they finally let you out of the closet! Freud could have a field day with that story
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Old 05-29-2011, 10:34 AM   #78
Jim Glauz
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Without hearing both sides of the story, from both parties involved it is difficult to determine what really happened. Ricky says "Obviously there were tons of phone calls and other letters between us; those are just a sample" We don't have the whole story, even from Ricky.
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Old 05-29-2011, 11:34 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Glauz View Post
Without hearing both sides of the story, from both parties involved it is difficult to determine what really happened. Ricky says "Obviously there were tons of phone calls and other letters between us; those are just a sample" We don't have the whole story, even from Ricky.
I think we've heard both sides of the story, from both parties involved. Very comprehensively, in fact.
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Old 05-29-2011, 11:55 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by GHanson View Post
I think we've heard both sides of the story, from both parties involved. Very comprehensively, in fact.
I think so as well. That is, to the extend you are EVER going to know. Because you will in almost no case hear it all from both parties concerned. That is I guess where your own responsibility comes in to make an educated assessment of the case based upon what you DO know.
Withholding from forming an opinion because you think you do not know it all can be done until elephants learn to whistle.
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Old 05-29-2011, 12:48 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplyred View Post
I don't think this thread is about "humans making mistakes". Of course, we all are humans AND we all can make mistakes. That is the Law of Nature. .
I think the title should be "Great Expectations." I personally have learned that the secret of happiness is to have low expectations. I get a kick out of this thread because people that are not familiar with the airmesh motoport gear, can get unusually high expectations of the gear based on rave reviews and claims from motoport. To be clear, I am talking about air mesh, not the stretch kevlar.

So When a purchaser of airmesh gear is disappointed with the fit, lack of expected airflow, stiffness, abrasiveness, or the ability for it to dry out quickly, they have to deal with wayne, whose normal course of action is to blame them or to explain to them that they do not know what they are talking about. One of my favorite lines is when a recent buyer complains that it is too large and fits like a super stiff, abrasive potato sack; wayne typically, at some point, asks, "but how does it fit when you are sitting on your motorcycle?"

This is like saying, well, how does it fit when you are sitting in a chair?
and then if you answer,
Fine? Well WTF are you complaining about! lmao.

The trick with great gear is to make it fit great and be comfortable while OFF the motorcycle. I am not sure this is even possible with the airmesh fabric. Whenever I see people in a big bulky airmesh, they get that friggin airmesh jacket off the second they get off the motorcycle because it is uncomfortable off the motorcycle.


The OP had great expectations, whereas he should have had low expectations. Granted, the OP read the rave reviews of motoport gear and was interested in the gear because, as motoport claims, "it dries in minutes" and water rolls of it like water rolling of a ducks back. He was so convinced he ended up swimming in a creek with all of the gear on. Oh my god... LMAO.

Disclosure: I have the GP2 suit in stretch kevlar and I love it. Mine fit perfectly. But I knew riders that had both stretch kevlar and the airmesh before I bought mine. Having not seen the airmesh in person, I probably would have bought that based on the fact wearing it you could ride it in 120 F (according to motoport)... lmao!

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Old 05-29-2011, 01:21 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muddbutt View Post
I think the title should be "Great Expectations." I personally have learned that the secret of happiness is to have low expectations. I get a kick out of this thread because people that are not familiar with the airmesh motoport gear, can get unusually high expectations of the gear based on rave reviews and claims from motoport. To be clear, I am talking about air mesh, not the stretch kevlar.

So When a purchaser of airmesh gear is disappointed with the fit, lack of expected airflow, stiffness, abrasiveness, or the ability for it to dry out quickly, they have to deal with wayne, whose normal course of action is to blame them or to explain to them that they do not know what they are talking about. One of my favorite lines is when a recent buyer complains that it is too large and fits like a super stiff, abrasive potato sack; wayne typically, at some point, asks, "but how does it fit when you are sitting on your motorcycle?"

This is like saying, well, how does it fit when you are sitting in a chair?
and then if you answer,
Fine? Well WTF are you complaining about! lmao.

The trick with great gear is to make it fit great and be comfortable while OFF the motorcycle. I am not sure this is even possible with the airmesh fabric. Whenever I see people in a big bulky airmesh, they get that fucking airmesh jacket off the second they get off the motorcycle because it is uncomfortable off the motorcycle.


The OP had great expectations, whereas he should have had low expectations. Granted, the OP read the rave reviews of motoport gear and was interested in the gear because, as motoport claims, "it dries in minutes" and water rolls of it like water rolling of a ducks back. He was so convinced he ended up swimming in a creek with all of the gear on. Oh my god... LMAO.

Disclosure: I have the GP2 suit in stretch kevlar and I love it. Mine fit perfectly. But I knew riders that had both stretch kevlar and the airmesh before I bought mine. Having not seen the airmesh in person, I probably would have bought that based on the fact wearing it you could ride it in 120 F (according to motoport)... lmao!
Disappointments that you collect in life have the tendency to lower your expectations with every one you add up to your collection .
Wayne seems to just speed up that process a little bit for his customers which is probably a "feature" that is not bragged about but should.
Having your expectations up too high is not that great a misfortune.
What is, is when you pay the price tag for your high expectations but instead get the "Wayne Reality Check" delivered to you.
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Old 05-29-2011, 02:16 PM   #83
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mudd,

I'm confused. Why would you buy anythng for which you had low expectations? If you didn't expect a product to have certain characteristics or to perform in a certain manner, why would you shell out your hard-earned dinero for it? Are you independently wealthy?

"Let's see, I DON'T think this jacket will be waterproof, cool in the summer and dry quickly, everything I want in a jacket. Guess I'll buy it!"

Sorry, I don't get your "logic."

Not certain that expectations are relevant in this case. Might I suggest that you would be less happy, even with your low expectations, if your GP2 suit didn't fit and perform as you had expected? There's no free lunch, but it's reasonable to expect that $1300 "custom" cycling gear would approximate what is advertised.

Worked in your case.

Apparently did NOT work for Ricky . . . and Wayne did not make the situation better.
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Old 05-29-2011, 02:24 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
mudd,

I'm confused. Why would you buy anythng for which you had low expectations? If you didn't expect a product to have certain characteristics or to perform in a certain manner, why would you shell out your hard-earned dinero for it? Are you independently wealthy? .
I would agree with what you said, however, that doesn't apply to what I actually said.

I said I have found that the secret to happiness is low expectations.
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Old 05-29-2011, 02:25 PM   #85
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I have custom made Motoport jacket and pants. I flew out California to assure a good fit. During my fitting I told Wayne that knee coverage was extremely important to me.

The knee pads came positioned way to low. I sent them back, along with pictures, wax markings, and a video on CD.

They came back the second time still to low.

I have wear the pants Urkle style to get close to proper coverage.

I can't seem to communicate my problem to Wayne over the phone, so Im just living with it until I can get back to California and show him in person. I think he can fix it if he sees it himself.
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Old 05-29-2011, 02:56 PM   #86
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Not so good, not so bad...

I have Motoport Air-Mesh pants. When new and nearly new ("After some wear, it will conform to you."), the pants caused intense pain in my knee caps. After (civil) conversation with Wayne, I cut the knee pads (quad 4 type) several times, eventually removing about 2 inches of material. I eventually got the left knee to feel OK, but have never been able to get the right knee comfortable. As best I can tell, the problem is simply that the circumference of the right pant leg is slightly smaller than the left and it is enough to cause the pad to put pressure on the knee cap no matter what. There is about a half inch (1.3cm) difference in the two circumferences at the knee.

I talked to Wayne three times after the sale working to find an answer. I confess that when Wayne told me that the problem was likely my measurements (I'm a mechanical engineer and dimensional calibration specialist - I can measure!), I politely finished the conversation and decided not to have any further business with him. Left leg to right leg circumference difference isn't even a question or consideration on the fit and measurement page. From my conversations with him, I concluded that Wayne wasn't going to fix it, and I had to get used to it or fix it locally.

Besides the right knee pain, the motoport mash pants do OK in the heat of Atlanta, Georgia, USA but still hot and not all that comfortable compared to jeans. The fabric bunches behind the knees and is eventually uncomfortable there. The Motoports are much cooler with LDComfort tights soaked in water... evaporative cooling is the bomb above 90-92 degF. The cooling effect with soaked tights tells me they are flowing air, but I've never especially noticed it on bare skin when wearing shorts under them. I haven't noticed that they dry very fast or very slowly. They will be still wet where there is no airflow (seat, back of knees, under the pads) long after dry on the exposed areas.

SO, I wear motoport for less than day-long rides and bought KLIM Traverse for multi-day rides. The Klim pants are hotter... I sweat more in them than the motoports (especially the seat, crotch, and lower legs where the Klim's vents don't flow), but they are more comfortable in every other way.

The motoport zipper system makes the pants way faster and easier to put on and take off over boots than anything else I've owned.

Like several others, I think Wayne desperately needs a course in dealing with customers and complaints by telephone (He's already mastered selling by telephone ). OR, Wayne needs to turn over the after-the-sale support to someone who will listen and respond; and then in turn listen to them as they represent customers internally. OR, the industry needs a competitor using the same level of safety-performance fabrics.

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Old 05-29-2011, 05:07 PM   #87
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mudd,

Sorry, repeating exactly the same words twice doesn't make it more understandable!

Would you mind expounding a little, in the context of commercial products?
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Old 05-29-2011, 05:53 PM   #88
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mudd,

Sorry, repeating exactly the same words twice doesn't make it more understandable!

Would you mind expounding a little, in the context of commercial products?
I repeated them because I thought you needed to read what I posted, not what you thought I posted.

To summarize, the OP had great expectations about this airmesh suit. How he got those expectations I think is fairly well understood (internet forums, motoport website, wayne himself) . His expectations (what he had constructed in his head) vs the reality of what he got were strikingly different. So he is very unsatisfied. If he had low expectations, he would have been much happier with the suit.

Let's take your point, which I do understand. And that is, in a commercial transaction, why would anyone buy something if they had low expectations?? People do it all the time, but you are confusing my reference about "Great Expectations" which was a reply to your suggestion that the thread be called "humans making mistakes" with my statement that the secret to happiness is low expectations.

It is irrelevant. The funny thing about this thread is the OP's Great Expectations (and if you have read the book, Great Expectations, you will understand how appropriate that title is), his expectations were off the charts on this suit.

Now, let us assume he has low expectations. It is a comment about happiness. With low expectations, you can find good things about the suit. Great protection for example. Either my body or the suit will conform to each other in 3-4 years . I don't mind it when I am sitting on my bike while wearing damp underwear. etc. If I ever need to hoist my truck into the air and I don't have a rope, I can use my airmesh Kevlar suit... etc.

People with low expectations are much happier than people with high expectations.

And FYI- there were things i was disappointed with on my GP2- the velcro suspenders - just a terrible idea - they unstick all the time if you bend over and are impossible to stick back in because they pull off the BACK of the pants so you have to take your pants off to get the back in. Or the hip armor that I paid $50 dollars for. But overall I am happy with the suit. And I bought it for the stretch kevlar (completely made out of keprotec) - I had low expectations about everything else.

Edit: Spelling

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Old 05-29-2011, 06:08 PM   #89
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mudd,

Sorry, repeating exactly the same words twice doesn't make it more understandable!

Would you mind expounding a little, in the context of commercial products?
In particular, I had low expectations about the way my suit looked BEFORE I purchased it. A friend of mine who has a rukka suit, said of the motoport suit, "Sweet jesus that is fugly."


I was in a coffee shop in Ann Arbor dressed in my canary yellow GP2 suit. I left my helmet on the bike dangling on the footpeg because I trust everyone. A woman came up to me and asked me, "why are you wearing that uniform." She was generally perplexed and wanted to know. Was I a fireman? etc.

"It is my motorcycle suit." I said

Then I turned around in my fugly canary yellow motoport suit and ordered my coffee.
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Old 05-29-2011, 10:54 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by JimNtexas View Post
I have custom made Motoport jacket and pants. I flew out California to assure a good fit. During my fitting I told Wayne that knee coverage was extremely important to me.

The knee pads came positioned way to low. I sent them back, along with pictures, wax markings, and a video on CD.

They came back the second time still to low.

I have wear the pants Urkle style to get close to proper coverage.

I can't seem to communicate my problem to Wayne over the phone, so Im just living with it until I can get back to California and show him in person. I think he can fix it if he sees it himself.

This raises my very first question I had with Wayne and one of the reasons I really wanted custom pants. I think I have a fairly normally proportianate body, and yet every single pair of pre made pants I've tried on in the store have the knee pads too low. Most cover my knee when I'm in the riding postition but drop below when my legs are straight.

My logic has been my knees could land on the pavement either in the straight or bent position and I want them to be covered either way. Also once I start sliding, friction is only going to pull the knee pads farther down (unless of course I was sliding down the pavement feet first ).

At the same time I've realized that that is "MY LOGIC" and I'm not an expert and since every premade bike pants I've tried on have the knees gards below my knees I'm wondering if they know something I don't.

On my Alpinestar jeans my wife sewed them up a bit higher. Maybe I'm being OCD on this, but when she did I still had that nagging thought that maybe the experts who make the pants know something I don't and that I was making the pants worse by sewing up the knee gaurds.

I talked with this extensively to Wayne and he basically confirmend that my logic was correct. But then he too sent out the pants with the kneegaurds way too low after extensive measuring, pictures with my legs straight and bent in the taped & marked sample jeans I sent him.
Now it just brings the question up again hearing your story that the knee gaurds were too low for you AND YOU HAD THE PANTS MEASURED IN PERSON!!
The answer probably is that Wayne screwed up on both of our orders but if anyone has any thoughts on why the knee gaurds should be lower I'd love to hear it!

BTW the amount of the front of your legs covered by the tri armor is huge! On my pants its everything basically is covered BUT the knees.
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