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Old 05-29-2011, 11:56 PM   #91
davidji
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickypanecatyl View Post
My logic has been my knees could land on the pavement either in the straight or bent position and I want them to be covered either way.
The knees are more vulnerable to the type of injuries the pads will protect you from when the knees are bent.
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Old 05-29-2011, 11:58 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by ThatFixedIt View Post
Wayne told me that the problem was likely my measurements (I'm a mechanical engineer and dimensional calibration specialist - I can measure!)
Obviously there is quite a lot going on in this company that is wrong. This would be food for a business consultant to report on in order to get this company going in the right direction.

Telling a dimensional calibration specialist that he can not measure is quite an insult coming from a guy who is probably way less educated on measuring theory as ThatFixedIt is! It just confirms what I said earlier: the guy is an idiot, who's short term success has installed the wrong attitude in him. He WILL pay the price for this behavior sooner or later. For instance when competition arrives (which is something bound to happen sooner or later). ThatFixedIt can not measure is obviously not true. That he could have made a mistake, yes, it could have happened but the chances to that for something that costs so much money and really being something that ThatFixedIt liked so much, for his hobby, are rather slim. Much more slim then the chance that Wayne himself screwed up. I guess 1000:1 chance in favor of Wayne being the culprit of the mess.

When you look at a situation where someone even takes the effort to fly over to get a suit measured up and even then it is faulty, it becomes very clear until the point that you can not argue against it anymore, that the fault lies with Wayne and his company, and not with the guy who flew over. You can not blame a customer for faulty measuring when you did the measuring yourself now, can you? JimNTexas's story proves that quite clearly.

So, Wayne measured it up himself, got it wrong, the gear was returned with a truckload of directions even in video (What???? How far must you go with this guy to get your product right???) and it STILL came back NOT as wished for... so where does it end before this guy admits he screwed up and backs that up by the necessary steps to make up on that?

This is an elementary fault in his procedures. He should correct it and adjust his sales procedures as soon as possible. In between, NO customer should have to "pay" for the faults in his order intake procedures since that is all HIS responsibility. Telling a mechanical engineer that he can not measure is the quickest way to make a complete fool of yourself I guess. I could not have done a better job in that, then Wayne did.

Customer Service is an elementary part of your business. Your relationship with the customer comes first. It is even more important then "the product" because you are probably going to sell this very customer more then just this one product! So your first priority as an entrepreneur is to make the customer feel respected, taken seriously and welcome. Also in a situation where it costs you money because of a problem in a product. Even if the problem is caused by the customer itself! Customer comes first.
All costs regarding customer service needs to be implemented in the product price.

I have actually read some inmates say that it was not normal for companies to pay for returning postage when there is a claim on the product. Well, let me tell you that here in Europe that is quite normal! Large companies who are used to sell by mail order do it standard over here. You just call a phone number and they will send a courier to pick up the product at your convenience and at their cost. That is how it should be done.

I keep getting amazed by reading all of your posts. I have a hard time to believe that companies like Wayne's can still exist in the US. I have been in the US like a dozen times and visited quite a few shops and always found commercial instinct to be top-shelve in the US. This is complete the opposite compared to what I read here. I find it unbelievable to read, and even more so that the guy still sells ANY product to ANYBODY. Even if he has no competition. If you read this whole thread, who is still willing to stick his head in the wasps' nest???
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Old 05-30-2011, 01:25 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh69 View Post
I also have a set of Motoport gear. Air mesh pants and air mesh jacket.
The pants fit perfectly, no problems. The jacket arrived too small despite me accurately measuring myself. I even provided more measurements than required on the sizing guide. It was not chronically too small but enough to be annoying.

It came by post to Europe where I live. I thought about it and since I was planning on losing weight anyway, I decided it was easier to lose about 5kg weight than send the jacket back to the US for alteration, so I guess I'm thankful to Wayne for helping me along with my weight loss.

Overall, I'm happy with the gear, including the jacket. I would buy it again and recommend it, with the advisory that the sizing may be a bit out. I feel very well protected and I can't think of anything which offers as much protection in warmer weather.

I find in light rain it is not necessary to use the rain liner.

BTW: I worked for about 6 months in Kuala Lumpur; drove a car while in Malaysia, didn't ride but I really liked it and a bike would really help beating those bad-ass KL traffic jams.

I find the quad armour too bulky.... am thinking of using Wayne's armour replacement program and swapping it for the tri-armor. The other thing is there is about a 4-inch gap in the jacket armour right at the centre of the chest where the zip is. I'm a bit concerned about the amount of protection it would provide if you were to T-bone a car pulling out infront of you. I think a dedicated chest protector would do a better job.
I may even replace the quad with tri armor and get a hit-air CO2 inflatable vest to put on top.
Josh- This si the setup I use - the tri armor and the hit air -I am pretty happy with that arrangement, but have not yet worn the hit air vest in really hot weather.
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Thinc2 screwed with this post 05-30-2011 at 03:53 AM
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Old 05-30-2011, 03:57 AM   #94
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All,
Seriously, there is no way Wayne should reply on this thread - no one in their right minds faces the mob mentality that develops in internet forums.

I'm not saying vendors shouldn't participate on forums - of course they should - but it's way too late for Wayne to jump in on this thread.

Further, while I know the OP was just trying to prove his point, I think it's bad form to post private correspondence in this forum. I very much doubt the OP would have liked it if Wayne had this without his permission.
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Old 05-30-2011, 04:01 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muddbutt View Post
I was in a coffee shop in Ann Arbor dressed in my canary yellow GP2 suit. I left my helmet on the bike dangling on the footpeg because I trust everyone. A woman came up to me and asked me, "why are you wearing that uniform." She was generally perplexed and wanted to know. Was I a fireman? etc.

"It is my motorcycle suit." I said

Then I turned around in my fugly canary yellow motoport suit and ordered my coffee.
muddbutt, your posts in this thread have made me completely lose it more than once; I was already laughing at Ricky jumping into the water with his heavy, abrasive suit on - then your take on it made me start laughing hysterically ("He obviously thought it would dry in minutes.... Like water rolling off a ducks back. oh my god, lmao, i would love to see a video tape of him in the water and then the drive home completely soggy, all the while feeling betrayed by Wayne who calls him his worst customer in 40 years... ")
Started laughing again right now.

More to the point - a thread like this, considering other people suddenly speaking up and mentioning their issues with Motoport gear - is enough to assure I would never ever buy anything from Motoport.

Especially liked Wayne telling the mechanical engineer that he cannot measure properly, and pointing out to Ricky that he is so small that the person who usually does the 'girls clothing' had to take care of him, and it's her fault for missing it. Grow up!

This is extremely bad publicity, and well deserved one at that - it seems.
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Old 05-30-2011, 04:29 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinc2 View Post
All,
Seriously, there is no way Wayne should reply on this thread - no one in their right minds faces the mob mentality that develops in internet forums.

I'm not saying vendors shouldn't participate on forums - of course they should - but it's way too late for Wayne to jump in on this thread.

Further, while I know the OP was just trying to prove his point, I think it's bad form to post private correspondence in this forum. I very much doubt the OP would have liked it if Wayne had this without his permission.
You make some good points here on which I would like to chime in a bit.

Indeed, nobody with his right minds would plunge into this thread now, being the subject and facing "the angry mob".
One of the most well known instructions of damage control courses is to sit still when you are being shaved (as they call it in Europe).
At least he has understood THAT since he is not responding and chances are he is reading it nonetheless.

You say it is bad form to post private correspondence. That might be true, and I am inclined to support that statement. However, the question is whether it applies to this thread. I believe not.
It would have applied, when the text originated from a PM between OP and Wayne, PM as in "Personal Message" inside this forum. I believe it is forbidden on most forums to publish personal messages and this one may be no exception to that sound rule.
However, when this text comes from correspondence between Wayne and OP, then it is the question whether any party of both had restricted the publication rights in any way by making a specific statement in the correspondence saying that. If not, the correspondence is free for the both of them to publish. Were it the other way around (OP saying the stuff from Wayne would be great) it was to be expected that text would have been used by Wayne to promote his gear just in the same way as it is used NOW to quite do the opposite: warn for bad customer service.
So where I do support your statement in general relating to PM's from forums, I do not think it applies to any form of correspondence unless the publication rights have been restricted specifically by one of the parties involved.
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Old 05-30-2011, 08:19 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidji View Post
The knees are more vulnerable to the type of injuries the pads will protect you from when the knees are bent.
That seems to make a lot of sense... now that I visualize it. Bent knees stick out and seem very vulnerable and also like they'd be the first/most likely thing to hit the pavement. However with straight legs I would imagine they wouldn't be taking the brunt of the impact.

I'm sure my particular pads need to come up a bit though as the top of the pads are below my knee cap and often when bending my legs they bind underneath it tugging on my pants.
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Old 05-30-2011, 08:13 PM   #98
borderxx
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Was...

Over the years I've read the claims on the MP website with skepticism. Anyone selling that hard sounds like a circus hawker.

I learned long ago that people who spend lots of money on something are reluctant to admit it is less than what they expected. Sometimes they convince themselves that just by spending that much they are getting a superior product. I'd wager that some folks who spend $1600 on protective gear believing the hype on the MP website don't want to advertise that they are unhappy.

For all the hype on the website, and for what you have to spend to get their product, it should be PERFECT out of the box. If it isn't, it should be cheerfully fixed regardless of the cause.

I was on the MP website today optioning a setup to replace my 'stich now that I live in a humid area. Decided to search here for a used one, and came across this thread. It isn't the only thread that discusses the outright hostility of Motoport after the sale - regardless of whose "fault" the issue is.

No way am I buying anything from Wayne.
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Old 05-30-2011, 11:15 PM   #99
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sizing tips

I thought I'd put in a few practical points I learned from my purchase to help someone else down the line...

1.) Wayne/motoport says they will copy exactly the jeans and shirt exactly as you send them in. I wasn't super thrilled with how any of my jeans fit so I went shopping for a new pair. I'm not very fashion conscience, but I figured I'd be wearing these everyday for the next 30 years or so .

That was a mistake. On the phone, Wayne told me that his seamstress can tell right where the kneepads go by looking at the wear marks on a "used" pair of jeans. He doesn't mention that on his web site so I thought I would put it here.

2.) The fit of the jeans/shirt you send in to copy. When not riding a motorcycle I prefer looser fitting shirt and jeans. I asked Wayne though if tighter jeans/shirt would be safer ie keep the armor in place better. He responded that his shirts would perfectly match the shirt/pants I sent in. I told him I understood that BUT I reemphasized my question - is a baggy shirt not as safe for instance as a tighter fitting one. Is there more room for the armor to slip around in.
I didn't understand Waynes answer but he did say that the way that the Tri armor molds around your body and how much was covered a looser fitting shirt/pants were just as safe. He also told me about the optional velcro strap around the calf to keep the knee armor in place and one around the elbow which I paid for. Based on that I sent in a looser fitting shirt and jeans.

The reality:

- there is no velcro strap around the calf or elbow. He said something in his letter that most of his customers thought they were unnecesary and he stopped making them "a while ago". This after he just told me about them a few weeks earlier and charged me for them.

- my "loose fitting shirt"; I could be wrong on this but it really does feel like there is lots of room for the armor to move around. When I raise 1 arm and hit my own palm with my elbow only about 1/2 the time is my elbow on the pad. I could be wrong but I do think there is a good chance in a crash my elbow pads will not be there for my elbows.
On the earlier phone call Wayne almost made it sound like there was some sort of esoteric, intelligent design, AI factor built into all motoport gear and that in a crash all pads return to their assigned postions to protect you.
Bottom line is - despite what Wayne told me I (and I'm no expert) would suggest NOT sending him a loose fitting shirt!

- Loose fitting pants; I've already hashed thru the placement of the knee armor so I wont do that here but here is a problem with loose fitting pants that I have that you might want to know about before ordering.
The thigh armor tries to unroll against it so it looks fairly funny. I'm sure tighter fitting pants would look much better as it would hold the thigh armor in place and down next to your leg.
Others here have suggested wrapping a rubberband around the armor - I don't know, maybe that would work.
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Old 05-31-2011, 12:21 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplyred View Post
You make some good points here on which I would like to chime in a bit.

Indeed, nobody with his right minds would plunge into this thread now, being the subject and facing "the angry mob".
One of the most well known instructions of damage control courses is to sit still when you are being shaved (as they call it in Europe).
At least he has understood THAT since he is not responding and chances are he is reading it nonetheless.

You say it is bad form to post private correspondence. That might be true, and I am inclined to support that statement. However, the question is whether it applies to this thread. I believe not.
It would have applied, when the text originated from a PM between OP and Wayne, PM as in "Personal Message" inside this forum. I believe it is forbidden on most forums to publish personal messages and this one may be no exception to that sound rule.
However, when this text comes from correspondence between Wayne and OP, then it is the question whether any party of both had restricted the publication rights in any way by making a specific statement in the correspondence saying that. If not, the correspondence is free for the both of them to publish. Were it the other way around (OP saying the stuff from Wayne would be great) it was to be expected that text would have been used by Wayne to promote his gear just in the same way as it is used NOW to quite do the opposite: warn for bad customer service.
So where I do support your statement in general relating to PM's from forums, I do not think it applies to any form of correspondence unless the publication rights have been restricted specifically by one of the parties involved.
And I agree with your Great Expectations post - well said.

I just think you one has to be very careful with these types of things. Certainly Wayne could have handled this transaction better. But he also states this is only the second (I think) customer he has ever put on the Do not do business with Again list.

There are a lot of pretty happy MP customers and I don't think it's all because they want to justify their purchase.

It's like saying no one should ever buy a BMW because of what they read about final drives on the internet.

I think there are some good lessons to be learned from this thread, but I'm not sure jumping to the conclusion never to buy another piece of MP gear is one of them (and I'm referring to the overall sentiment - not your post directly).

This is one data point. A good data point from which to learn some stuff, but it's not the only data point on which people should be basing their purchasing decision.
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Old 05-31-2011, 02:13 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omer View Post
muddbutt, your posts in this thread have made me completely lose it more than once; I was already laughing at Ricky jumping into the water with his heavy, abrasive suit on - then your take on it made me start laughing hysterically ("He obviously thought it would dry in minutes.... Like water rolling off a ducks back. oh my god, lmao, i would love to see a video tape of him in the water and then the drive home completely soggy, all the while feeling betrayed by Wayne who calls him his worst customer in 40 years... ")
Started laughing again right now.
Honest guys - I'm usually not this naive! One thing I love about this forum is usually guys are pretty honest. You can't really expect a dirtbike magazine to give you an honest review for example as their income comes from advertising. But here people usually shoot pretty straight and I though I read tons of reviews about Wayne I never saw anything negative... I guess this is the balancing thread.

I pulled these claims off of Wayne's web site... I noticed he seems upset when companies use false claims to mislead the customer - on the same page he says his gear dries in minutes after rainfall.
As far as swimming in motoport gear and driving thru 5 minutes of heavy rainfall, here in Malaysia there is no difference - they are just as wet.
I grew up in Seattle, Washington and I could see the rain they have there not getting your gear that wet after 5 minutes. Problem there though is the rain doesn't stop in 5 minutes.



Also as far as my naivitee is concerned I guess I was expecting more of a exageration than claims completely pulled out of his ass. When he said the gear dries in minutes after rainfall I was thinking, "Sure he's probably exaggerating BUT I bet its completely dry in 45 minutes!" It is dry after 2 hours of high speed riding but so are Levis - it takes a good 6 hours to dry hanging up in a room.

I thought the same when I saw the claim the mesh was 10X stronger than competition leather... I think my guess was I doubt it, but I bet its as strong as competition leather and that's good enough for me. When you see guys coming off their bikes at 160mph and then getting back up you think that's good enough for me and I bet he wasn't exaggerating more than 10X.

It's amazing how savy you have to be as a customer to interpret manufacturers claims.
I've been shopping for printers and I have a # of different models for example.
I've found where as all printers exagerate the general trend is that laser printers exagerate about 20% how fast they are - ie if it claims 36 pages a minute printing speed it will do 32ish. InkJets tend to exaggerate about 500% on average - if it claims 30 pages per minute it will probably do 6. Generally a laser that claims 12 ppm is faster than an inkjet claiming 30. But my question is...

WHY DO WE HAVE TO KNOW THAT!!! WHY CAN'T PEOPLE JUST TELL THE TRUTH!!!
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Old 05-31-2011, 04:40 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Thinc2 View Post
And I agree with your Great Expectations post - well said.

I just think you one has to be very careful with these types of things. Certainly Wayne could have handled this transaction better. But he also states this is only the second (I think) customer he has ever put on the Do not do business with Again list.

There are a lot of pretty happy MP customers and I don't think it's all because they want to justify their purchase.

It's like saying no one should ever buy a BMW because of what they read about final drives on the internet.

I think there are some good lessons to be learned from this thread, but I'm not sure jumping to the conclusion never to buy another piece of MP gear is one of them (and I'm referring to the overall sentiment - not your post directly).

This is one data point. A good data point from which to learn some stuff, but it's not the only data point on which people should be basing their purchasing decision.
This thread is a lesson.

But you are looking at the wrong potential student here! The potential student should be Wayne and not the customer who is pushed outside with rude comments or insults after paying the big bucks.

It is up to the individual reader what he or she actually wants to learn or conclude from this thread. You personally might not want to conclude to never buy something from Wayne again, others might.
We are lucky to still live in a free world where everybody concludes for himself. I am not saying that nobody should ever buy anything from Wayne again (I know you did not say this). Why should I? I am just saying that I personally will not. I detest this kind of rude behavior to customers.
Telling a dimensional calibration specialist he can't measure.... for crying out loud!

I think if anybody has to be responsible for this thread, it is Wayne himself.
These customers are just trying to defend themselves with almost no other tools available since they were clearly refused and thrown out of the door with their problems by this Wayne character.

I can understand that when you do not have a complaint (or just swallow it) you are not likely to get into contact with some kind of failing customer service, and as such, could be "a happy customer" living with the product as it is. But remember: most of the time, the complaints were NOT about the fabric, or the protection it provides, but the measuring and how it fitted. And then again, this is not a thread about the complaints, but about HOW THEY ARE SOLVED (quod non).

I have yet to read reports in this thread from customers that ACTUALLY HAD complaints and which complaints WERE solved in a cheerful, fast and satisfying way! What I read here is all pretty problematic, to say the least.

Be careful? Yeah, of course! I agree!
But how careful would you say reading all of this, is Wayne in his customer service?
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Old 05-31-2011, 04:48 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickypanecatyl View Post
WHY DO WE HAVE TO KNOW THAT!!! WHY CAN'T PEOPLE JUST TELL THE TRUTH!!!
Because you can't handle the truth........
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Old 05-31-2011, 05:43 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Simplyred View Post
This thread is a lesson.

But you are looking at the wrong potential student here! The potential student should be Wayne and not the customer who is pushed outside with rude comments or insults after paying the big bucks.

It is up to the individual reader what he or she actually wants to learn or conclude from this thread. You personally might not want to conclude to never buy something from Wayne again, others might.
We are lucky to still live in a free world where everybody concludes for himself. I am not saying that nobody should ever buy anything from Wayne again (I know you did not say this). Why should I? I am just saying that I personally will not. I detest this kind of rude behavior to customers.
Telling a dimensional calibration specialist he can't measure.... for crying out loud!

I think if anybody has to be responsible for this thread, it is Wayne himself.
These customers are just trying to defend themselves with almost no other tools available since they were clearly refused and thrown out of the door with their problems by this Wayne character.

I can understand that when you do not have a complaint (or just swallow it) you are not likely to get into contact with some kind of failing customer service, and as such, could be "a happy customer" living with the product as it is. But remember: most of the time, the complaints were NOT about the fabric, or the protection it provides, but the measuring and how it fitted. And then again, this is not a thread about the complaints, but about HOW THEY ARE SOLVED (quod non).

I have yet to read reports in this thread from customers that ACTUALLY HAD complaints and which complaints WERE solved in a cheerful, fast and satisfying way! What I read here is all pretty problematic, to say the least.

Be careful? Yeah, of course! I agree!
But how careful would you say reading all of this, is Wayne in his customer service?
Agree with your points.
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Old 05-31-2011, 10:48 AM   #105
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Just crash tested the suit at 40 mph

Give me a day to write more details... i'm prettu sore and typing with 1 hand but nothing too serious...


random question... its 9of and my teeth are chattering... whats that?
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