KTM 690 E & TuneECU

[crankshaft]

Originally Posted by road_donkey

+1

My cousin has been helping me with the tuning and has surpassed my limited knowledge already but we still work together testing and tweaking. The most difficult part has been fabricating wiring harness to read TPS and MAP. Using RPM is great but having TPS and MAP would make the tuning experience much better. We've been tossing around the idea of maybe going to the KTM Adventure rides and doing some map tuning for interested folks. Imagine how perfect that would be, go ride for the weekend and get your bike tuned while you have a beer in the hotel lobby

Memorial day weekend, we plan on really fine tuning on a 240 mile dual sport loop here in VT and Seth's 690 will be getting the treatment also.

Moving forward.... slowly

[CHRIS_D]

Let me try this question here: Has anyone been able to adjust the THAD using TuneECU? I was able to adust the APAD with TuneECU but haven't had a chance to try and adjust the computer controlled portion or THAD.

[Bartron]

Originally Posted by crankshaft

My cousin has been helping me with the tuning and has surpassed my limited knowledge already but we still work together testing and tweaking. The most difficult part has been fabricating wiring harness to read TPS and MAP. Using RPM is great but having TPS and MAP would make the tuning experience much better. We've been tossing around the idea of maybe going to the KTM Adventure rides and doing some map tuning for interested folks. Imagine how perfect that would be, go ride for the weekend and get your bike tuned while you have a beer in the hotel lobby

Memorial day weekend, we plan on really fine tuning on a 240 mile dual sport loop here in VT and Seth's 690 will be getting the treatment also.

Moving forward.... slowly

Craig from CJ Designs makes the TuneECU cable, would he have access to whatever components you'd require?

As a funding source, you guys could negotiate a cut of cable sales perhaps since availability of a map would increase demand for the cable and you can't do the ECU work without the cable. Thus, revenue would come from the means to map and not the map itself.

Just some ideas.

[Velociraptor]

One thing we also have to think about is that mapping can be very bike specific if you want the perfect map. It works OK to use a map for your general bike setup but if you want the best map then you have to take your own bike to the dyno. I am happy enough with the map I made as all I wanted was to get rid of the stalling problem. If someone posted a map for my bike setup that worked great then I would try it but until then I really have no issues.

[crankshaft]

Originally Posted by Bartron

Craig from CJ Designs makes the TuneECU cable, would he have access to whatever components you'd require?

As a funding source, you guys could negotiate a cut of cable sales perhaps since availability of a map would increase demand for the cable and you can't do the ECU work without the cable. Thus, revenue would come from the means to map and not the map itself.

Just some ideas.

The Tune cable is easy, I'm referring to the cables to measure TPS and MAP using the LM-2 wide 02 band tester. Basically, it's a DYNO in a box.
We're finding that most Dyno tuning shoots for highest HP and not for best riding overall. The LM-2 will allow us to tune by using the trails as a dyno.

Sharing maps over the internet is a bad idea, I see many potential problems. Confirming sensor values and health of the bike is important as part of the tune process.

[Bartron]

Originally Posted by crankshaft

I'm referring to the cables to measure TPS and MAP using the LM-2 wide 02 band tester. Basically, it's a DYNO in a box.

Gotcha, I was referring to sourcing the hard-to-get connectivity like TPS and MAP. You've obviously got things covered and we all truly appreciate your efforts.

I would have to differ in opinion slightly and say that sharing maps on the Internet cannot be done blindly and should be an informed process but with the appropriate due diligence it could work quite well - Power Commander maps have been shared for years. The caveat is in trusting the developer and recognizing there is nobody to blame but yourself if things go badly.

I would like to know what Beaney's mail in service costs (roughly, not to put him on the spot) and the turnaround time. Do they have a loaner program so you're not without a ride?

Also, does anyone know if there is enough interbike variability (assuming same air filter and exhaust +\- fuel octane) to make a universal map ineffective?

EDIT: Beaney does not work on ECU's by mail. My misunderstanding.

[ini88]

I think many of us are in the same boat. I will pay to have a fellow 690 rider on this board to tune my bike so it's buttery smooth. Would also like to see them tune it and learn from them so that I can take that knowledge and use it on my bike later down the line.

[bayarearider]

Originally Posted by Bartron

Gotcha, I was referring to sourcing the hard-to-get connectivity like TPS and MAP. You've obviously got things covered and we all truly appreciate your efforts.

I would have to differ in opinion slightly and say that sharing maps on the Internet cannot be done blindly and should be an informed process but with the appropriate due diligence it could work quite well - Power Commander maps have been shared for years. The caveat is in trusting the developer and recognizing there is nobody to blame but yourself if things go badly.

I would like to know what Beany's mail in service costs (roughly, not to put him on the spot) and the turnaround time. Do they have a loaner program so you're not without a ride?

Also, does anyone know if there is enough interbike variability (assuming same air filter and exhaust +\- fuel octane) to make a universal map ineffective?

Beaney earlier responded that he wouldnt do anything by mail, but perhaps if there are enough riders he might change his mind.

[beaney]

Originally Posted by bayarearider

Beaney earlier responded that he wouldnt do anything by mail, but perhaps if there are enough riders he might change his mind.

The problem is that we are in the Uk and mainly deal with european rallies, theses ecu's are expensive so if they go missing you will soon be wanting a new replacement set, (who's paying)

As said earlier that mapping can be very bike specific, ie air filter / exhaust combos + other mods. We have seen different AFR values using the same map but changing between akro and fmf pipes. Because of this I like to check every remap before given the bike back.

What you need is someone in the US that understands what their doing with the mapping, I'll give them a base map that stops the stalling and makes the bike smoother and they can tweak it from their, also you have to remember that you lot in the US have different spec bikes to europe and have a vast variety of riding conditions, altitude etc compared to us here.

Like crankshaft said PLEASE DONT go downloading maps of the internet and put them in your bike unless you know what your doing and can verify the map contents as its really easy to blow an engine.

So who wants to pick up the cable and run with it????

[Maurizio]

Originally Posted by beaney

So who wants to pick up the cable and run with it????

As you wrote the main risk is to blow an engine.

If it happens a few hours from home, this is the kind of "cable" I suggest:



Beaney, I do appreciate your approach to mapping: doing it on the bike is the right way; tuning the ECU alone will be dangerous as the variables involved are a lot, besides modded mufflers and air intakes: wear of the mechanical or electrical parts of the bike, temperature... Just a bad setup of the throttle cables can bring to different behavior of the fueling system.

Here in Europe we have a reasonable amount of KTM shops. On the other side of the pond the situation seems to be rather different, and many owners have the nearest dealer miles and miles far from home; this is one of the factors that make DIY in the States more common than here in Europe, but on the other hand the risks of DIY wrong and to have a hard time to make it work again are greater.

Another thing to consider is the different setup of US bikes due to different environmental requests, as the dreaded "canister". Maybe after a canisterctomy and a Akra slip-on install the bikes' map could be the same as the Euro Akra spec'd ones, but I can't swear on it... And I think this is one of the culprit of the higher fuel system fault level in the US, along with the different quality of fuel (I am sure that in Italy, for example, there is almost no ethanol in the gasoline).

So, everybody have some time to study the theory of electronic engine management, and only after having everything clear, start trying to fry your own ECU...

[beaney]

Originally Posted by CHRIS_D

Let me try this question here: Has anyone been able to adjust the THAD using TuneECU? I was able to adust the APAD with TuneECU but haven't had a chance to try and adjust the computer controlled portion or THAD.

To measure THAD

Remove airbox

Fire up tuneecu so it display throttle volts

Now to get the correct thad value you need to fully close the butterfly valve with your finger, now if correct it should read 0.5v



EDIT; Taken from 09 repair manual

[bobzilla]

the very best we can hope for is that KTM will admit there is a problem with the FI and release some new maps to the dealer along with better training of the tecs sepecially in the US.
The things Beaney is doing go far beyond what I want and need. i need no more power. i want smooth throttle, nostalling/surging and a map that will not affect longevity of the motor. im an old fat guy that only does mods to the bike to make it more crash worthy, better comfort, and less likely to break in the middle of no where. i have no need of a motor in a high state of tune, those days are past for me,now i want 2 weeks a a time of riding in the middle of nowhere with zero maintence on a well suspended bike

[Gros Buck]

Originally Posted by beaney

Exactly the same way, you just dont have the on screen prompts to follow.

To measure THAD

Remove airbox

Fire up tuneecu so it display throttle volts

Now to get the correct thad value you need to fully close the butterfly valve with your finger, now if correct it should read 0.5v.

Remember follow destructions.( like we always do)

Watch Out Beany ...

Voltages for 690R 2011 are not the same and are not yet documented by KTM. Substantial changes have been done by Keilin.

AKRAPOVIC MAPPINGS (BOTH OF THEM) NEEDED A CHANGE »TOO

Don't ask me why I know this. It is suffering enough.

Paul Jr

[beaney]

Originally Posted by Gros Buck

Watch Out Beany ...

Voltages for 690R 2011 are not the same and are not yet documented by KTM. Substantial changes have been done by Keilin.

AKRAPOVIC MAPPINGS (BOTH OF THEM) NEEDED A CHANGE »TOO

Don't ask me why I know this. It is suffering enough.

Paul Jr

OK

have put an edit on previous post.

Haven't seen 2011 bike yet.

[CHRIS_D]

Originally Posted by beaney

To measure THAD

Remove airbox

Fire up tuneecu so it display throttle volts

Now to get the correct thad value you need to fully close the butterfly valve with your finger, now if correct it should read 0.5v



EDIT; Taken from 09 repair manual

Thanks Beaney,

I appreciate you confirming this because I wasn't sure if the TuneECU would display the actual THAD voltage. I have adjusted the APAD (which was low at .52), but haven't tried to adjust the THAD yet.