ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-11-2011, 06:52 PM   #16
crankshaft
Guns are for pussies
 
crankshaft's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Burlingtron,VT
Oddometer: 13,974
Quote:
Originally Posted by road_donkey View Post
+1
My cousin has been helping me with the tuning and has surpassed my limited knowledge already but we still work together testing and tweaking. The most difficult part has been fabricating wiring harness to read TPS and MAP. Using RPM is great but having TPS and MAP would make the tuning experience much better. We've been tossing around the idea of maybe going to the KTM Adventure rides and doing some map tuning for interested folks. Imagine how perfect that would be, go ride for the weekend and get your bike tuned while you have a beer in the hotel lobby

Memorial day weekend, we plan on really fine tuning on a 240 mile dual sport loop here in VT and Seth's 690 will be getting the treatment also.

Moving forward.... slowly
__________________
Just say'IN
crankshaft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2011, 07:04 PM   #17
CHRIS_D
Studly Adventurer
 
CHRIS_D's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Southside of ATL, GA
Oddometer: 870
Let me try this question here: Has anyone been able to adjust the THAD using TuneECU? I was able to adust the APAD with TuneECU but haven't had a chance to try and adjust the computer controlled portion or THAD.
__________________
2014 KTM 1190 Adventure R
2011 Victory Cross Country
CHRIS_D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2011, 07:07 PM   #18
Bartron
Bike Punisher
 
Bartron's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: mid-west-northern Canadia
Oddometer: 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by crankshaft View Post
My cousin has been helping me with the tuning and has surpassed my limited knowledge already but we still work together testing and tweaking. The most difficult part has been fabricating wiring harness to read TPS and MAP. Using RPM is great but having TPS and MAP would make the tuning experience much better. We've been tossing around the idea of maybe going to the KTM Adventure rides and doing some map tuning for interested folks. Imagine how perfect that would be, go ride for the weekend and get your bike tuned while you have a beer in the hotel lobby

Memorial day weekend, we plan on really fine tuning on a 240 mile dual sport loop here in VT and Seth's 690 will be getting the treatment also.

Moving forward.... slowly
Craig from CJ Designs makes the TuneECU cable, would he have access to whatever components you'd require?

As a funding source, you guys could negotiate a cut of cable sales perhaps since availability of a map would increase demand for the cable and you can't do the ECU work without the cable. Thus, revenue would come from the means to map and not the map itself.

Just some ideas.
__________________
Ride on.

==================================
:: Furious Basterds: Velox, Vehemens, Oblivio
::
:: "For those who don't understand, no explanation is possible. For those who do, none is necessary."
Bartron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2011, 07:22 PM   #19
Velociraptor
TrackBum
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Seattle
Oddometer: 1,067
One thing we also have to think about is that mapping can be very bike specific if you want the perfect map. It works OK to use a map for your general bike setup but if you want the best map then you have to take your own bike to the dyno. I am happy enough with the map I made as all I wanted was to get rid of the stalling problem. If someone posted a map for my bike setup that worked great then I would try it but until then I really have no issues.
__________________
2014 KTM EXC 500
2014 KTM 1290 Superduke R
2009 KTM 690r Enduro SOLD
2002 RC51 SOLD
2010 KTM 990 Supermoto R SOLD
Velociraptor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2011, 07:32 PM   #20
crankshaft
Guns are for pussies
 
crankshaft's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Burlingtron,VT
Oddometer: 13,974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartron View Post
Craig from CJ Designs makes the TuneECU cable, would he have access to whatever components you'd require?

As a funding source, you guys could negotiate a cut of cable sales perhaps since availability of a map would increase demand for the cable and you can't do the ECU work without the cable. Thus, revenue would come from the means to map and not the map itself.

Just some ideas.
The Tune cable is easy, I'm referring to the cables to measure TPS and MAP using the LM-2 wide 02 band tester. Basically, it's a DYNO in a box.
We're finding that most Dyno tuning shoots for highest HP and not for best riding overall. The LM-2 will allow us to tune by using the trails as a dyno.

Sharing maps over the internet is a bad idea, I see many potential problems. Confirming sensor values and health of the bike is important as part of the tune process.
__________________
Just say'IN
crankshaft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2011, 08:03 PM   #21
Bartron
Bike Punisher
 
Bartron's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: mid-west-northern Canadia
Oddometer: 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by crankshaft View Post
I'm referring to the cables to measure TPS and MAP using the LM-2 wide 02 band tester. Basically, it's a DYNO in a box.
Gotcha, I was referring to sourcing the hard-to-get connectivity like TPS and MAP. You've obviously got things covered and we all truly appreciate your efforts.

I would have to differ in opinion slightly and say that sharing maps on the Internet cannot be done blindly and should be an informed process but with the appropriate due diligence it could work quite well - Power Commander maps have been shared for years. The caveat is in trusting the developer and recognizing there is nobody to blame but yourself if things go badly.

I would like to know what Beaney's mail in service costs (roughly, not to put him on the spot) and the turnaround time. Do they have a loaner program so you're not without a ride?

Also, does anyone know if there is enough interbike variability (assuming same air filter and exhaust +\- fuel octane) to make a universal map ineffective?

EDIT: Beaney does not work on ECU's by mail. My misunderstanding.
__________________
Ride on.

==================================
:: Furious Basterds: Velox, Vehemens, Oblivio
::
:: "For those who don't understand, no explanation is possible. For those who do, none is necessary."

Bartron screwed with this post 05-12-2011 at 12:13 AM
Bartron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2011, 09:48 PM   #22
ini88
Gnarly Adventurer
 
ini88's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: New York, NY
Oddometer: 147
I think many of us are in the same boat. I will pay to have a fellow 690 rider on this board to tune my bike so it's buttery smooth. Would also like to see them tune it and learn from them so that I can take that knowledge and use it on my bike later down the line.
__________________
2011 KTM 690 Enduro R
2006 KTM 640 Adventure - Stolen :(
ini88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2011, 10:55 PM   #23
bayarearider
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: San Jose, CA
Oddometer: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartron View Post
Gotcha, I was referring to sourcing the hard-to-get connectivity like TPS and MAP. You've obviously got things covered and we all truly appreciate your efforts.

I would have to differ in opinion slightly and say that sharing maps on the Internet cannot be done blindly and should be an informed process but with the appropriate due diligence it could work quite well - Power Commander maps have been shared for years. The caveat is in trusting the developer and recognizing there is nobody to blame but yourself if things go badly.

I would like to know what Beany's mail in service costs (roughly, not to put him on the spot) and the turnaround time. Do they have a loaner program so you're not without a ride?

Also, does anyone know if there is enough interbike variability (assuming same air filter and exhaust +\- fuel octane) to make a universal map ineffective?
Beaney earlier responded that he wouldnt do anything by mail, but perhaps if there are enough riders he might change his mind.
bayarearider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 02:00 AM   #24
beaney
rally racer
 
beaney's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: uk, or on a rally.
Oddometer: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayarearider View Post
Beaney earlier responded that he wouldnt do anything by mail, but perhaps if there are enough riders he might change his mind.
The problem is that we are in the Uk and mainly deal with european rallies, theses ecu's are expensive so if they go missing you will soon be wanting a new replacement set, (who's paying)

As said earlier that mapping can be very bike specific, ie air filter / exhaust combos + other mods. We have seen different AFR values using the same map but changing between akro and fmf pipes. Because of this I like to check every remap before given the bike back.

What you need is someone in the US that understands what their doing with the mapping, I'll give them a base map that stops the stalling and makes the bike smoother and they can tweak it from their, also you have to remember that you lot in the US have different spec bikes to europe and have a vast variety of riding conditions, altitude etc compared to us here.

Like crankshaft said PLEASE DONT go downloading maps of the internet and put them in your bike unless you know what your doing and can verify the map contents as its really easy to blow an engine.

So who wants to pick up the cable and run with it????
__________________
690 enduro/ rally
350 exc
RALLY-RAIDPRODUCTS.CO.UK
beaney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 05:36 AM   #25
Maurizio OP
2 smoker
 
Maurizio's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2003
Location: Turin, Italy
Oddometer: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaney View Post

So who wants to pick up the cable and run with it????
As you wrote the main risk is to blow an engine.

If it happens a few hours from home, this is the kind of "cable" I suggest:



Beaney, I do appreciate your approach to mapping: doing it on the bike is the right way; tuning the ECU alone will be dangerous as the variables involved are a lot, besides modded mufflers and air intakes: wear of the mechanical or electrical parts of the bike, temperature... Just a bad setup of the throttle cables can bring to different behavior of the fueling system.

Here in Europe we have a reasonable amount of KTM shops. On the other side of the pond the situation seems to be rather different, and many owners have the nearest dealer miles and miles far from home; this is one of the factors that make DIY in the States more common than here in Europe, but on the other hand the risks of DIY wrong and to have a hard time to make it work again are greater.

Another thing to consider is the different setup of US bikes due to different environmental requests, as the dreaded "canister". Maybe after a canisterctomy and a Akra slip-on install the bikes' map could be the same as the Euro Akra spec'd ones, but I can't swear on it... And I think this is one of the culprit of the higher fuel system fault level in the US, along with the different quality of fuel (I am sure that in Italy, for example, there is almost no ethanol in the gasoline).

So, everybody have some time to study the theory of electronic engine management, and only after having everything clear, start trying to fry your own ECU...
__________________
maurizio
'14 250 EXC E "Sparkling Orange"
'08 FLHCTUSE3 - '76 CB 750 F ss
sold: '03 950 adv s, '05 450 exc, '08 690 e

Maurizio screwed with this post 05-12-2011 at 05:48 AM
Maurizio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 06:29 AM   #26
beaney
rally racer
 
beaney's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: uk, or on a rally.
Oddometer: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRIS_D View Post
Let me try this question here: Has anyone been able to adjust the THAD using TuneECU? I was able to adust the APAD with TuneECU but haven't had a chance to try and adjust the computer controlled portion or THAD.
To measure THAD

Remove airbox

Fire up tuneecu so it display throttle volts

Now to get the correct thad value you need to fully close the butterfly valve with your finger, now if correct it should read 0.5v



EDIT; Taken from 09 repair manual
__________________
690 enduro/ rally
350 exc
RALLY-RAIDPRODUCTS.CO.UK

beaney screwed with this post 05-12-2011 at 07:22 AM
beaney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 06:37 AM   #27
bobzilla
Dirty Old Man
 
bobzilla's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Lost & Found again in the Great Basin
Oddometer: 881
the very best we can hope for is that KTM will admit there is a problem with the FI and release some new maps to the dealer along with better training of the tecs sepecially in the US.
The things Beaney is doing go far beyond what I want and need. i need no more power. i want smooth throttle, nostalling/surging and a map that will not affect longevity of the motor. im an old fat guy that only does mods to the bike to make it more crash worthy, better comfort, and less likely to break in the middle of no where. i have no need of a motor in a high state of tune, those days are past for me,now i want 2 weeks a a time of riding in the middle of nowhere with zero maintence on a well suspended bike
__________________
Ride the DEZ
05 FE 550 Husaberg plated
08 FE 650 Husaberg plated
01 DR Frankenbike 650
76 CB750
bobzilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 07:04 AM   #28
Gros Buck
Beef = Packed Vegetables
 
Gros Buck's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Quebec City, Canada
Oddometer: 847
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaney View Post
Exactly the same way, you just dont have the on screen prompts to follow.

To measure THAD

Remove airbox

Fire up tuneecu so it display throttle volts

Now to get the correct thad value you need to fully close the butterfly valve with your finger, now if correct it should read 0.5v.

Remember follow destructions.( like we always do)

Watch Out Beany ...

Voltages for 690R 2011 are not the same and are not yet documented by KTM. Substantial changes have been done by Keilin.

AKRAPOVIC MAPPINGS (BOTH OF THEM) NEEDED A CHANGE »TOO

Don't ask me why I know this. It is suffering enough.

Paul Jr
__________________
KTM690r 2011
Gros Buck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 07:23 AM   #29
beaney
rally racer
 
beaney's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: uk, or on a rally.
Oddometer: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gros Buck View Post
Watch Out Beany ...

Voltages for 690R 2011 are not the same and are not yet documented by KTM. Substantial changes have been done by Keilin.

AKRAPOVIC MAPPINGS (BOTH OF THEM) NEEDED A CHANGE »TOO

Don't ask me why I know this. It is suffering enough.

Paul Jr
OK

have put an edit on previous post.

Haven't seen 2011 bike yet.
__________________
690 enduro/ rally
350 exc
RALLY-RAIDPRODUCTS.CO.UK
beaney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 08:07 AM   #30
CHRIS_D
Studly Adventurer
 
CHRIS_D's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Southside of ATL, GA
Oddometer: 870
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaney View Post
To measure THAD

Remove airbox

Fire up tuneecu so it display throttle volts

Now to get the correct thad value you need to fully close the butterfly valve with your finger, now if correct it should read 0.5v



EDIT; Taken from 09 repair manual
Thanks Beaney,

I appreciate you confirming this because I wasn't sure if the TuneECU would display the actual THAD voltage. I have adjusted the APAD (which was low at .52), but haven't tried to adjust the THAD yet.
__________________
2014 KTM 1190 Adventure R
2011 Victory Cross Country
CHRIS_D is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 09:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014