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Old 05-09-2011, 01:25 PM   #1
mAthosalas OP
Costas
 
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Eh? F800GS change oil and filter.

Hi from Patras,Greece.I have a question and I need your experience and your opinion.I have a F800GS and I have 3 different "options" in changing engine oil and filter.
First,I have the owner's manual from BMW Germany,that says I have to change oil and filter every 10.000km(1000-10000-20000-30000 ....)
Then I have the Haynes' book for the F8,and recommend exactly the same,that is every 10.000km change oil+filter.
And finally I have the BMW agent,the local,that says I have to change oil+filter every 10.000km but except that I have to change oil every 5.000km.So for the agent it's every 5000km oil change and every second change I have to put on a new filter too.(1000-5000-10000-15000...)

So,what's your opinion?Who's the right and who says nothing but sh!t? What are you doing about changing engine oil+filter?How often km(miles) you do that?

Sorry if I post a new thread and there is still another one.I tried to find one but I couldn't find something similar.If there is also plesa give me the link
Thanks,Costas
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Old 05-09-2011, 02:20 PM   #2
JoelWisman
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The F800GS holds quite a bit of oil, every 10,000KM is right (6000 mile for American units). At these intervals, warranty is maintained everywhere in the world I am familiar with.

Change the filter with the oil.

Perhaps some very small reduction in wear could be achieved by changing the oil more often, but it is debatable and in any case, not likely to create a savings that outweighs the significant cost of more frequent oil changes.
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:37 PM   #3
reinerka
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Change the Oil and Filter every 10,000km and forget about the rest. Your manual is right and the dealer just wants your money.....

I always thought only the US dealers try to convince their customers to change oil every other day on their vehicle. Didn't know that practice has finally arrived in Europe as well .

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Old 05-09-2011, 03:43 PM   #4
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Do it yourself. Super easy to do. Mine holds 3 qts exactly and a new filter is easy to put on. Takes 10 minutes to do. Get a new crush washer for drain plug and pick up an oil filter wrench.

Since I do my own changes I do it more often then recommended and at least once a season regardless of miles ridden.
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Old 05-09-2011, 10:34 PM   #5
mAthosalas OP
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Thanks for your answers.Just to inform,I'm thinking the same as you,but I asked about maybe if there is a case I really do not know that we have to change filter+oil earlier than BMW recommmends...Thank you

Quote:
Originally Posted by reinerka View Post
...the dealer just wants your money.....
I always thought only the US dealers try to convince their customers to change oil every other day on their vehicle. Didn't know that practice has finally arrived in Europe as well .

Reiner
That's something I rememeber since I'm riding...it was about 1987.The same practice.Yes that "Dealer recommends changing oil or servicing TOO often than the constructor says"....that is a BIG subject at Greece,don't worry this is not happening only at the other side of pacific.we all have the same behavours to defence
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Old 05-10-2011, 03:53 AM   #6
LukasM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roonie View Post
Do it yourself. Super easy to do. Mine holds 3 qts exactly and a new filter is easy to put on. Takes 10 minutes to do. Get a new crush washer for drain plug and pick up an oil filter wrench.

Since I do my own changes I do it more often then recommended and at least once a season regardless of miles ridden.
In most countries in Europe this means you will lose your warranty. Official BMW service only if you want to be covered....
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Old 05-10-2011, 04:10 AM   #7
chadams
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Talking

I do mine every 5,000 to 7,000 km, currently running castrol full syn. I do a filter with every change. If I'm going away for a dirt trip, I'll do filter and oil before and after the trip (most weekend trips are between 1500 and 3000km). As for warranty if its a re-call item they must fix it otherwise warranty is dunny-paper for my bike as it turned two this week and has 65,000km. If I wanted to claim I'd get the standard answer "driver abuse"...
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Old 05-10-2011, 05:38 AM   #8
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Well....there are some method to the madness...... I agree on that many changes their oil`s too often....in their cars. Here is what you should consider on the 8GS. The engine, clutch, and transmission shares the oil bath. and at highway speeds the gears in the transmission shear the polymers and methodically breaks into the life of the oil.....a lot faster than on bikes that does NOT share transmission and engine oil. So in the case of the 8GS.....and several other bikes for that matter...... the oil life is reduced. I change mine every 3-4000 miles simply because I can feel the shifting getting a bit notch`ier.... At that point the lube properties has been reduced. Not to the point that they will not protect the engine.......but reduced. That`s enough for me to change the oil. To each their own. 10000km.....as a little too much for me....... Just be aware of that this in NOT like a regular car engine....because of the shared transmission..... I'm in the desert southwest where it is very dusty ....... As is evidence every 5000 miles when the air filter is replaced. That said.... Time for more espresso.....

Erling

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Old 05-10-2011, 06:20 AM   #9
Ceri JC
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Originally Posted by LukasM View Post
In most countries in Europe this means you will lose your warranty. Official BMW service only if you want to be covered....
Apologies for a long post, summary in bold below.

Thankfully, no longer true, although it used to be, prior to the tail end of 2003. You can now insist on warranty actions by manufacturers, even if not serviced at an official dealership: So long as the bike has been serviced correctly somewhere.

There's a good (and authoratative) summary of it from the Automobile Association's website:

Quote:
The European regulations governing the sale and after-sales servicing of new cars changed in October 2003. For new cars purchased after that date you are no longer obliged during the warranty period to get the car serviced by a franchise dealer.

You must however continue to get the car serviced according to the manufacturer's recommended schedule and criteria using only manufacturer approved parts.

The legislation only applies to the part of the warranty offered by the manufacturer, i.e. insurance-backed extended warranties offered by dealers are not covered.

If you do have the car serviced outside the dealer network it is essential that it's done to the maker's recommended schedule and criteria using approved parts. You must also keep records to enable you to demonstrate to the manufacturer that servicing was undertaken to their requirements.

Warranty work should still be undertaken by the franchised dealer as it is
easier for them to deal directly with the manufacturer.
NB: Ignore the fact that it refers to cars in the above example; it applies to cars and vans too.

This certainly applies in the UK and as it was the result of an EU ruling, it is highly likely that a similar "local" version of the law will have been implemented in Greece by now.

Where manufacturers do still get you is by exercising "goodwill" on service/warranty items for customers who had it 100% serviced at a dealer. Technically, there are all sorts of things you wouldn't expect to fail or wear out under the warranty period*, like a clutch, headrace or wheel bearings, etc. are all classed as "consumables". Likewise, chain and sprockets failing after 3K miles is clearly a problem if it has been cleaned/adjusted/lubed according to the specifications and should be replaced free of charge. Yet technically, these things are in the same class as filters, spark plugs, tyres, etc. when it comes to a warranty. If a manufacturer wanted to be a dick about it, they could argue that consumables are designed to be "used up", aren't part of the warranty and the onus would be on you to prove they failed due to manufacturing defect and that you looked after/serviced them properly.

If you read the small print of European warranties, most manufacturers now actually concede you can get it serviced elsewhere and instead try to talk you into servicing with the official dealers due to the associated "goodwill" you'll earn (the F8's European warranty included). IE "If you get your bike serviced with us, we'll cover stuff that isn't technically included in your warranty and also won't try and weasel out of covering a bike with non-[insertManfuacturerName] parts, when it's clear these parts didn't cause the failure, so long as we fitted them."

How much of a fight they put up in refusing to do the work FOC depends on how big/costly the problem is and how far you have deviated from having it done with them. I had my bike serviced by an ex-BMW technician, so when I had warranty claims, they didn't have a leg to stand on in terms of questioning his competence or the quality of his work. If it had been some back alley garage, it's a bit more of a grey area. If you've DIYed the bike and you're asking for expensive warranty work, it's going to be a bit harder. Having some sort of certification/provable experience as a mechanic would certainly help your case, if it came to small claims court.

*Unless you were doing 20K+ per year miles, offroading it hard or racing it, obviously.
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:55 AM   #10
reinerka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebrabaek View Post
Well....there are some method to the madness...... I agree on that many changes their oil`s too often....in their cars. Here is what you should consider on the 8GS. The engine, clutch, and transmission shares the oil bath. and at highway speeds the gears in the transmission shear the polymers and methodically breaks into the life of the oil.....a lot faster than on bikes that does NOT share transmission and engine oil. So in the case of the 8GS.....and several other bikes for that matter...... the oil life is reduced. I change mine every 3-4000 miles simply because I can feel the shifting getting a bit notch`ier.... At that point the lube properties has been reduced. Not to the point that they will not protect the engine.......but reduced. That`s enough for me to change the oil. To each their own. 10000km.....as a little too much for me....... Just be aware of that this in NOT like a regular car engine....because of the shared transmission..... I'm in the desert southwest where it is very dusty ....... As is evidence every 5000 miles when the air filter is replaced. That said.... Time for more espresso.....

Erling
Erling, if dust gets into the oil you have a serious issue....... but that is very unlikely being caused by oil changes.

I've done 250K miles on a GL1800 and only changed the oil every 8K miles (as defined by Honda) and the engine was as good as new then. It as well has a shared flow for transmission, clutch and engine. Those factors have little to do with it. The GL used 4qts of oil (with an engine more than double the size and tripple the cylinders). Shifting is always easier with fresh oil.

Changing oil more frequently than the manufacturer asks for does nothing for the engine. It might make you sleep better - maybe the lighter wallet helps for that. But modern oils are far different from oils of just 10 years ago.

Reiner
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Old 05-10-2011, 08:09 PM   #11
ebrabaek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reinerka View Post
Erling, if dust gets into the oil you have a serious issue....... but that is very unlikely being caused by oil changes.

I've done 250K miles on a GL1800 and only changed the oil every 8K miles (as defined by Honda) and the engine was as good as new then. It as well has a shared flow for transmission, clutch and engine. Those factors have little to do with it. The GL used 4qts of oil (with an engine more than double the size and tripple the cylinders). Shifting is always easier with fresh oil.

Changing oil more frequently than the manufacturer asks for does nothing for the engine. It might make you sleep better - maybe the lighter wallet helps for that. But modern oils are far different from oils of just 10 years ago.

Reiner
As much as one try....It is impossible to keep all dust out of the motor..... Just driving through a 1/4 mile vis. dust storm can force ever so small dust particles in places you don`t wan`t em to go......
As far as the gearbox shearing the polymers.... I stand by what I said earlier....... But Will leave this alone....so it does not turn into an oil basher....as so many others have. I respect your opinion......Just don`t share it......

Erling
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Old 05-10-2011, 08:59 PM   #12
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I change the oil in all my bikes at 5k (with a filter, I see no advantage in not changing a filter) on a long trip where im riding all day I may extend it a few K but that depends where and what conditions i'm in...all manufacturers show max oil changes and say in extreme conditions to change it more regularly..condensation, dust, fuel pollutants, etc all contribute to oil breaking down.

An additional benefit to more regular oil changes is seeing if any metal is stuck to your sump plug twice as often.

oil is cheap, rebuilds ain't
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Old 05-11-2011, 02:04 AM   #13
rodrigo
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Geia sou Mathosalas
I want to inform you that only in 10000km the dealer put you a stamp in your service book.
The midle 5000 change oil, if you are still in guarantee, there are not wrinten anywhere, so they cannot enforce you to do it.
What i do is changing oil by my own every 5000 km or less.
I strongly recomend you to check the oil level before and after a trip,
especially if you travel through a motorway.
When i travel in motorway at almost 7000-7500 rpm, the bike consums a amount of oil.
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Old 05-11-2011, 06:57 PM   #14
chadams
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Originally Posted by rodrigo View Post
Geia sou Mathosalas
I want to inform you that only in 10000km the dealer put you a stamp in your service book.
The midle 5000 change oil, if you are still in guarantee, there are not wrinten anywhere, so they cannot enforce you to do it.
What i do is changing oil by my own every 5000 km or less.
I strongly recomend you to check the oil level before and after a trip,
especially if you travel through a motorway.
When i travel in motorway at almost 7000-7500 rpm, the bike consums a amount of oil.
I live in the wrong country, 7000 in top gear very nice... Our state is restricted to 110km/h
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