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Old 07-03-2011, 01:26 PM   #256
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Seeing as I want the Montana mounted on a 1/2" crossbar, I made myself an AMPS clamp. Going riding tomorrow!
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Old 07-03-2011, 02:10 PM   #257
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Since you have the 650t, can you tell us if the TOPO's are routable?

Oh, BaseCamp v3.2.1 is available - good upgrade.

Cheers,

Tell me exactly what you need to know. Are you asking if the topo maps that come with the gps can route you through city streets or along a route? I've got CN installed but I can disable that map and see what topo gives if this is what you need to know.

(thanks on the basecamp note)
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Old 07-03-2011, 02:26 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by rhicks View Post
Tell me exactly what you need to know. Are you asking if the topo maps that come with the gps can route you through city streets or along a route? I've got CN installed but I can disable that map and see what topo gives if this is what you need to know.

(thanks on the basecamp note)
Quite a few folks that haven't purchased yet would not purchase CNNA if the preloaded-Topo's of the 650t support auto-routing. Could you please disable your CNNA and see if the preloaded 100K Topo's will create an Along-road Route (auto-route)?

I personally use CNNA for most of my off-highway dirt work. If I could disable the contour lines, of the 24K/100K Topo's I have, on the Montana I'd use them more just for the shading.

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Old 07-03-2011, 03:14 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
Quite a few folks that haven't purchased yet would not purchase CNNA if the preloaded-Topo's of the 650t support auto-routing. Could you please disable your CNNA and see if the preloaded 100K Topo's will create an Along-road Route (auto-route)?

I personally use CNNA for most of my off-highway dirt work. If I could disable the contour lines, of the 24K/100K Topo's I have, on the Montana I'd use them more just for the shading.

Cheers,

I'm going to say a big fat NO.

I thought there may have been some chance since someone reported the 100k maps in the Montana being routable but from from what I just have seen I don't think it's going to happen. I created two waypoints in basecamp 3.2.1 and created a route from those waypoints. The route took me along the hwy as expected and everything looked good on screen. I transferred that to the gps, and told the gps to follow the route with CN turned on. Everything looked good. I went back and disabled CN but had topo enabled. When I hit GO, I got this.





also just to note when CN is enabled the track is purple and obvious along the road. When CN is disabled, topo enabled, the route shows a straight line from start to finish.
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Old 07-03-2011, 03:24 PM   #260
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The description of the retail version of the 100K maps on the Garmin site state that those maps are routable.

Since the maps included preinstalled on the 650T are not routable, Garmin has evidently installed a different version than the ones that are available on DVD.

DRTBYK has the retail version installed on other units and has observed those are truly routable.


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Old 07-03-2011, 05:41 PM   #261
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For the Montana,

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=75228

Under specs

Automatic routing (turn by turn routing on roads): yes (with optional mapping for detailed roads)


For the 100k US Topo retail

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=28229

Contains routable roads, trails and highways in metropolitan and rural areas so getting to your destination is easy by creating point-to-point routes on compatible devices.


So yes it does look like Garmin is using two different products or the same product with disabled features. You can still create a route on the device. It just doesn't give you turn by turn directions. Yup, a pisser for a device MSRP of $699.

Is there anyone else with a 600 series that can verify my findings?
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Old 07-03-2011, 08:29 PM   #262
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I have the Montana 650 and downloaded the Topo US 100 to it. It took about 12 hours for the entire map to load (Is that typical?) The Topo US I have is version 4.0 and is a couple years old, It does not autoroute on the Montana 650 or my 60CS. I have City Navigator for North America and it will autoroute on both GPS's.
Anyone know what the latest version of Topo US 100 is?
When they say it autoroutes on compatable devices, what is a compatable device? I'm thinking one with a preinstalled autoroutable base map.
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Old 07-04-2011, 07:18 AM   #263
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I have installed the AMPS rugged mount on my bike and wired it but it is not powering or charging the Montana. I have 11 volts at the mount. All I get is a volume slider added to the menu when it's mounted. Has anyone else powered the mount yet with any success?
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Old 07-04-2011, 07:36 AM   #264
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Garmin has a history of preloading "special" Topo map products on their handheld GPS's. The price differential between the 650 and 650t is only about $60. If you want Topo's on your Montana, buy the 600/650 and use the money to buy CNNA or the current (v2) 24K or 100K map set. What you're really buying on the 650t is a free set of Topo maps and the additional 500MB of internal storage. Take that $60 and buy a 16GB microSD card.

The Garmin US TOPO 100K are auto-routable just like City Navigator North America (or other CN maps). They do not need any other maps installed to be fully functional. When Garmin says "compatible" device, they mean a Garmin GPS that supports Auto-routing and installing supplemental maps. If you look on the map product webpage there will be a tab labeled "Compatible Devices" which will show a list. This list is not always up to date so it's a good practice to ask if you don't know for sure.

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Old 07-04-2011, 08:09 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
In the case of the Montana 600/650, you don't have preloaded routable maps so you buy whatever maps you want. If you want to install them on your computer (Mac or Win) you must buy the DVD version of the map product not the microSD card version or Download version - they will not install on your computer or show through BaseCamp when the GPS is connected (bug).

Since you are familiar with BaseCamp on the Mac, you can install the maps on the Mac (and into BaseCamp) from the DVD (only). If you want to transfer maps from BaseCamp to the GPS you can do that now as BaseCamp 3.1.4 has links to the MapInstaller. In the coming release of v3.2.x of BaseCamp you will have the MapInstaller integrated with BaseCamp (much like Mapsource does in Win).

So, if you want to be able to install your purchased maps on any (multiple) computers, you must purchase the DVD version.
That only addresses part of the question, though. In addition to moving maps from the computer to the Montana, will it be possible to build routes on the computer, move those to the Montana, and have it follow them as you created them?
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Old 07-04-2011, 08:48 AM   #266
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It is possible to send routes to the Montana but they will be recalculated on the Montana even with the same maps on both the PC an the Montana. That is why we want the option to disable or turn recalculation off. If this is something that would keep you from purchasing a Montana, I suggest that you let Garmin know by using their IDEAS webpage.

If you do want to transfer Routes to the Montana, I suggest using via points to shape your route so that you get what you want. Not optimal but Auto-routing is not optimal. Tracks are optimal! The Montana can navigate tracks. So, create your route in BaseCamp and then "Create Track from Route". Transfer the track to the Montana and you're set.

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Old 07-04-2011, 12:09 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
It is possible to send routes to the Montana but they will be recalculated on the Montana even with the same maps on both the PC an the Montana. That is why we want the option to disable or turn recalculation off. If this is something that would keep you from purchasing a Montana, I suggest that you let Garmin know by using their IDEAS webpage.

If you do want to transfer Routes to the Montana, I suggest using via points to shape your route so that you get what you want. Not optimal but Auto-routing is not optimal. Tracks are optimal! The Montana can navigate tracks. So, create your route in BaseCamp and then "Create Track from Route". Transfer the track to the Montana and you're set.

Cheers,

That's a little bit of a step back from my 478, but I got used to over shaping routes for use on my 76c that's it's not a big deal. You can get it nearly totally correct if you take the time.

Are there any other routing options on the Montana besides the "Avoid Toll Roads, Avoid Dirt Roads, Avoid Highways" and "Fastest Route, Shorter Distance" basics?
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Old 07-04-2011, 01:30 PM   #268
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The Montana has what are referred to as Activity Based Profiles by Garmin. The Routing Setup offers four options:
  1. Activity (Direct Routing, Automobile Driving, Motorcycle Driving, Cycling, Pedestrian Walking, Prompted)
  2. Calculation Method (Minimize Time, Minimize Distance, Prompted)
  3. Lock On Road (Yes/No)
  4. Avoicance Setup (U-Turns, Toll Roads, Interstate Highways, Major Highways, Unpaved Roads, Carpool Lanes, Ferries, Narrow Trails(Cycling))

We have no idea how the "Activity" options effect the routing algorithm. Garmin seems to treat the definition of these as Top Secret

Aside from the fact that you cannot yet set Recalculation = OFF, I find the Montana no worse, or better, than the GPSMAP 276/376/478 when it comes to auto-routing calculation. I just created a rather complex 30mi. off-road route in BC and it took 10 shaping points for both the Montana and GPSMAP 376C to lock on the roads/trails I wanted even when I changed the routing pref's. Transferring that route to the Montana (using the same maps of course) yielded the same route even with the recalculation.

As I think I mentioned earlier, I don't use routing vary often when I'm off-highway - unless I'm using the zumo 660.
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Old 07-04-2011, 02:00 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
The Montana has what are referred to as Activity Based Profiles by Garmin. The Routing Setup offers four options:
  1. Activity (Direct Routing, Automobile Driving, Motorcycle Driving, Cycling, Pedestrian Walking, Prompted)
  2. Calculation Method (Minimize Time, Minimize Distance, Prompted)
  3. Lock On Road (Yes/No)
  4. Avoicance Setup (U-Turns, Toll Roads, Interstate Highways, Major Highways, Unpaved Roads, Carpool Lanes, Ferries, Narrow Trails(Cycling))

We have no idea how the "Activity" options effect the routing algorithm. Garmin seems to treat the definition of these as Top Secret

Aside from the fact that you cannot yet set Recalculation = OFF, I find the Montana no worse, or better, than the GPSMAP 276/376/478 when it comes to auto-routing calculation. I just created a rather complex 30mi. off-road route in BC and it took 10 shaping points for both the Montana and GPSMAP 376C to lock on the roads/trails I wanted even when I changed the routing pref's. Transferring that route to the Montana (using the same maps of course) yielded the same route even with the recalculation.

As I think I mentioned earlier, I don't use routing vary often when I'm off-highway - unless I'm using the zumo 660.
The difference with the routes either being copied completely (478) or recalced on opening (Montana, 76c etc) comes in to play when you change the preferences in Mapsource. If you move the prefer minor/major roads slider, adjust the driving speeds for various road types and have custom avoids, that's when the routing starts mismatching quite a bit. Not a big issue, but will need to add more shaping points to compensate.

I know that in mapsource if you pick the bicycle routing method, it's similar to moving the prefer minor/major roads all the way to minor. It also affects how it calculates your time to arrival so driving speeds must be affected as well.
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Old 07-04-2011, 02:05 PM   #270
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Thanks DRTBYK. I don't understand what it is with Garmin and auto-recalc. They did the same thing with the Zumo, got a bunch of complaints, and eventually fixed it. You'd think they'd learn.

I have registered my desire for this feature with Garmin, and told them I won't be buying a Montana until they fix this.
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