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Old 08-06-2012, 01:00 PM   #4576
Twistn'roads
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Perhaps what is meant is the "non-announcing" of shaping points or via points which is what the the Montana doesn't support at the moment. This is something that I have requested to the Garmin Montana team some time ago. I always use shaping points to tailor my routes.

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Old 08-06-2012, 01:58 PM   #4577
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Let's not confuse Shaping Points, Via Points and Waypoints.

A "shaping point" is generated by the routing software to define a route path whether Via Points and/or Waypoints are used or not. You don't see shaping points in the Waypoint Manager. Some Garmin GPS's support the announcement of Shaping Points and some don't. The Montana does not.

Via Points and Waypoints are generated by YOU. When you click on a road, you place a Via Point to make a route path go where you want it to. Via Points will not show in the Waypoint Manager - because they are not Waypoints. Waypoints when inserted into a route also will alter the path of the route but they do show up in the Waypoint Manager. Via Points and Waypoints are also referred to as "Stops" in the Route Directions and/or Information.

Dr. Rock, fear not, your Routes are fine.

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Old 08-06-2012, 02:43 PM   #4578
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Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
Let's not confuse Shaping Points, Via Points and Waypoints.

A "shaping point" is generated by the routing software to define a route path whether Via Points and/or Waypoints are used or not.
OK, I understand that, but I have a follow-up question.

Originally Posted by atlas cached
Quote:
I believe you are referring to shaping points here, which the Montana does not support, as of firmware 4.20.


So are shaping points themselves, or just the announcement of shaping points not supported?

My M.O. has been to create my routes on basecamp using as many via points as necessary to establish the route with a follow-road, shortest-distance, avoid NOTHING settings, and then before sending them to the GPS's save them as Direct-(point-to-point) routes (which should remove all shaping points), and force each GPS to calculate the routes themselves using the handheld's equivalent of follow-road, shortest-distance, avoid nothing settings.

I've done this to avoid the shaping points which IMO tend to create different routes on different class units (Montana vs. 60/76 series).

With the profiles in BaseCamp, I've been using "Motorcycling", which will still route on narrow trails, but honestly I haven't seen any difference between "Automotive" and "Motorcycling" using my technique (provided the route prefs are set identical).

Because of the variability using different units and sharing routes, my strategy is to minimize the BaseCamp+GPS route preference/avoid algorithms, and to force the route I want regardless of the unit's prefs/settings with adequate numbers of via points.

It's worked for me well so far, and it sounds like it still will.
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Old 08-06-2012, 03:20 PM   #4579
DRTBYK
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Originally Posted by DR. Rock View Post
OK, I understand that, but I have a follow-up question.

Originally Posted by atlas cached


So are shaping points themselves, or just the announcement of shaping points not supported?

My M.O. has been to create my routes on basecamp using as many via points as necessary to establish the route with a follow-road, shortest-distance, avoid NOTHING settings, and then before sending them to the GPS's save them as Direct-(point-to-point) routes (which should remove all shaping points), and force each GPS to calculate the routes themselves using the handheld's equivalent of follow-road, shortest-distance, avoid nothing settings.

I've done this to avoid the shaping points which IMO tend to create different routes on different class units (Montana vs. 60/76 series).

With the profiles in BaseCamp, I've been using "Motorcycling", which will still route on narrow trails, but honestly I haven't seen any difference between "Automotive" and "Motorcycling" using my technique (provided the route prefs are set identical).

Because of the variability using different units and sharing routes, my strategy is to minimize the BaseCamp+GPS route preference/avoid algorithms, and to force the route I want regardless of the unit's prefs/settings with adequate numbers of via points.

It's worked for me well so far, and it sounds like it still will.
And it will continue to work just fine for you.

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Old 08-06-2012, 03:28 PM   #4580
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Perhaps we should define shaping points...
If you're making a route by creating a start and end point, and then going along and rubber-banding the route at various points to make it go where you want, this may or may not work from Mapsource to Base Camp or vice versa...
and it may behave differently from one model to another.
If you create all the waypoints you need to shape the route and then pick each one in order, it should work on either software and any model...
I create my routes with however many waypoints it takes to get Mapsoure to autoroute correctly and it's worked on all my stuff....
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Old 08-06-2012, 05:37 PM   #4581
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Originally Posted by SKINNY View Post
Perhaps we should define shaping points...
If you're making a route by creating a start and end point, and then going along and rubber-banding the route at various points to make it go where you want, this may or may not work from Mapsource to Base Camp or vice versa...
and it may behave differently from one model to another.
If you create all the waypoints you need to shape the route and then pick each one in order, it should work on either software and any model...
I create my routes with however many waypoints it takes to get Mapsoure to autoroute correctly and it's worked on all my stuff....
Thought I did that(?). A Via Point is not a "shaping point". I know folks use the term when describing how they adjust a route's path but that does not change the technical definition within Garmin's historical Routing schema. But in fairness, I've even seen some Garmin Developers misuse the term - trying not to confuse customers I think.

As you noted, Via Points are handled differently between MapSource and BaseCamp, although still called Via Points, as well as among older and newer Garmin GPS devices. This is what makes Route sharing a "non-starter" for me. Unless of course you do as DR. Rock does and only share Direct Route's (with ≤ 50 Waypoints and ≤ 200 Via Points).

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Old 08-06-2012, 05:59 PM   #4582
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Originally Posted by DR. Rock View Post

By the way, I don't think I have a "Dualsport" default profile on the Montana, and I definitely don't in BaseCamp 4.0.0.6 beta (Mac).


That's because I created that profile on my Montana. It's not a default profile at all. I wanted two profiles for motorcycling because I do two different types of riding - street and dualsport. My motorcycle profile is set to avoid dirt roads (interstates are ok) and dualsport is set to avoid interstates but dirt roads are ok. So that's where that came from.
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Old 08-08-2012, 04:52 PM   #4583
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Rut roh!!!

I've been creating routes in Basecamp, copied them to the Montana (to the unit, not the sd card), and when I closed out Basecamp, disconnected the unit from the computer, and started it up to check my routes, only 5 of the 22 showed up!!! I plugged it back in to see what happened and I can see them in Basecamp under the Montana All Data folder. What's going on? Why can't I see them when I do a "Where to?" to select the route I want to follow?

Help!!

PS. Only a few waypoints are there too.



UPDATE

I had to do a master reset to get it all to show up. All the routes and waypoints are there now.

HOLY CRAP, scare the hell outta me!! Geez loo-eez!!

woodsatyr screwed with this post 08-08-2012 at 05:35 PM
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Old 08-08-2012, 08:39 PM   #4584
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Originally Posted by woodsatyr View Post
Rut roh!!!

I've been creating routes in Basecamp, copied them to the Montana (to the unit, not the sd card), and when I closed out Basecamp, disconnected the unit from the computer, and started it up to check my routes, only 5 of the 22 showed up!!! I plugged it back in to see what happened and I can see them in Basecamp under the Montana All Data folder. What's going on? Why can't I see them when I do a "Where to?" to select the route I want to follow?

Help!!

PS. Only a few waypoints are there too.



UPDATE

I had to do a master reset to get it all to show up. All the routes and waypoints are there now.

HOLY CRAP, scare the hell outta me!! Geez loo-eez!!
This happens to me all the time, it is a big fault with the whole system and annoys the crap out of me, along with its other faults

I now fire the unit up before I leave the computer and make sure they all work and that my waypoints are there

I generally have to do a master reset then do it all again so the waypoints are in recently found




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Old 08-09-2012, 07:35 AM   #4585
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It freaked me out because I had been working on routes and testing them all week. Got it all done and did a last check and poof! All gone but 5 routes and just a few waypoints. Luckily the master reset worked. I'm taking my nuvi as a backup.
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:10 AM   #4586
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I'm taking my nuvi as a backup.
Even worse, I already have waypoints programed so I can find my RV. Its in there, even used it day before to find RV.

I go out and follow a 150 mile route of stone road. During the route I added 2 waypoints for places where gates were locked.
Get to end of route, feeling great about how the Montana worked, ready to go back to RV for dinner
I hit a shortcut called RV and it tells me "no waypoint named RV"

This has happened a couple times. I think I fixed it by saving a waypoint file that includes both my RV location and my Home with a new name, then I think all new waypoints are saved into a different file with default name.

But what happens when I am out with the dirt bike? Make waypoint for my truck/trailer, go get lost, use GPS to find truck and it says "truck not found". Kind of scary when I know I only have 50 mile fuel range on dirt bike.

So my backup Delorme PN40 brings me home.
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:17 AM   #4587
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I hear ya! I have a paper map backup too. Although the majority of this trip there's only one road so the options are either go forward or back.
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:19 AM   #4588
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snip...

But what happens when I am out with the dirt bike? Make waypoint for my truck/trailer, go get lost, use GPS to find truck and it says "truck not found". Kind of scary when I know I only have 50 mile fuel range on dirt bike.
TracBack!

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Old 08-09-2012, 08:52 AM   #4589
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TracBack!

Cheers,


Haha! Some of the stuff I ride on I wouldn't want to track back on. LOL
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Old 08-09-2012, 09:17 AM   #4590
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TracBack!

Cheers,
One problem with TrackBack:
I dirt bike ride in an area where I am never more then 10 miles from the truck the way the crow files.
It is covered with trails so I can always find a "short way" back to the truck using hiking mode.

I go out and ride 35 miles in a loop, only have 50 miles of fuel so it's time to head back to truck.
GPS fails to show me where truck is.

Its 35 miles to back track, which is a total of 70 miles, but bike only holds enough fuel to go 50 miles.
80 miles - 50 miles of fuel - 20 miles pushing. If I had to push 20 miles, I might get made enough to throw the GPS off a real high cliff
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