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Old 04-08-2013, 01:01 PM   #7411
marco polo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guavadude View Post
ok, I called Garmin. I was looking at the Finder on the Mac and the names lose all specific titles like "Day1_Route1" and just say "route" or route1, but after unplugging, on the Montana they actually do have the titles in tact.

What's strange is that if I rename a route on the Montana using the rename function, the titles do show up correctly in the Mac Finder.
So I guess I shouldn't look at the Finder and just use Basecamp for renaming and transferring to and from Montana.

It's just a little unsettling when it's not consistent.
I use a Mac too, but never thought of using Finder; I have always used just Basecamp and it works just fine.
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Old 04-08-2013, 01:13 PM   #7412
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backup of routes/tracks on SD card

I have my maps backed up on my SD card but how do you guys handle the routes? Do you keep a backup of these as well and if so, do you put them in a folder to keep them from showing up in the Track Manager on the Montana?
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:49 PM   #7413
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Originally Posted by ducnek View Post
I think I read there is a 50 point limit on routes? Is that correct? How can you determine how many points you have used in the route as you are creating the route?
In Basecamp, open up the route properties and it'll give you a list as well as a count.
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Old 04-08-2013, 05:02 PM   #7414
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Well, after spending an hour and a half with Garmin support, they finally got CNNA2013 installed, and got MapInstall working. Ridiculous that someone has to go through all that, but I must say that the three techs that helped me were all very nice, and knowledgeable.

So got my maps loaded on laptop, created my routes using Mapsource and opened them using Basecamp. Everything looks great on both, and both using CNNA 2013 for the maps. However, when I transfer the routes, maps to the Montana 650 (used Mapsource), route is not sticking to the roads, but just showing straight lines between viapoints. I'm sure it's just something in one of my settings. Anyone?
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Old 04-08-2013, 05:36 PM   #7415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BergDonk View Post
In Basecamp, open up the route properties and it'll give you a list as well as a count.

Saw the list, must have missed the count. Thanks
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Old 04-08-2013, 05:58 PM   #7416
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Rydah,

I'm at work typing on my phone so this will be short. I seem to remember something about direct vs. follow (lock to) roads in the settings on the Montana.

Hopefully someone else will chime in. But I wanted to give you something to look for in your settings while you were waiting for other replies.

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Old 04-08-2013, 06:06 PM   #7417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rydah View Post
Well, after spending an hour and a half with Garmin support, they finally got CNNA2013 installed, and got MapInstall working. Ridiculous that someone has to go through all that, but I must say that the three techs that helped me were all very nice, and knowledgeable.

So got my maps loaded on laptop, created my routes using Mapsource and opened them using Basecamp. Everything looks great on both, and both using CNNA 2013 for the maps. However, when I transfer the routes, maps to the Montana 650 (used Mapsource), route is not sticking to the roads, but just showing straight lines between viapoints. I'm sure it's just something in one of my settings. Anyone?
You need to go back to routes in Basecamp and choose the "Activity" appropriate to the route. If you want to route on road choose that kind of activity. If you think you might want to edit the route in the Montana, choose "Direct" otherwise you can't edit (insert via points, etc) the route at all in the gps. All the other activity types result in routes which can't be altered in the gps.

And you should give up on using Mapsource. It does look easier, but it has none of the advanced capabilities needed if you want to get the best out of the unit.

Especially when it comes to map loading to the Montana (or 62/78/Oregon/Dakota), Mapsource is antiquated and better used on 60/76 and older gps. Use MapInstall.
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Old 04-08-2013, 08:55 PM   #7418
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My routes on Basecamp are all "direct" in the activity box. You're saying I need to use something else, like "motorcycling"? When I change it to anything else but "direct", my routes get all messed up. In "direct" mode, they all follow the roads perfectly, in Basecamp. It's on the Montana that they get weird. What setting should I be using on the Montana? I've tried "direct, motorcycling, etc" on the Montana, as well as "locked, not locked on road", yet nothing seems to make it look like what I have on Basecamp.
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Old 04-08-2013, 10:20 PM   #7419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rydah View Post
My routes on Basecamp are all "direct" in the activity box. In "direct" mode, they all follow the roads perfectly, in Basecamp.
Your routes will not follow the roads in Basecamp with activity = direct.

Look carefully at your settings.

Export them to your Montana in Direct mode, then change the activity on the Montana.
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Old 04-09-2013, 10:18 AM   #7420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rydah View Post
So got my maps loaded on laptop, created my routes using Mapsource and opened them using Basecamp. Everything looks great on both, and both using CNNA 2013 for the maps. However, when I transfer the routes, maps to the Montana 650 (used Mapsource), route is not sticking to the roads, but just showing straight lines between viapoints. I'm sure it's just something in one of my settings. Anyone?
First, I would not use MapSource to transfer the routes to the Montana. Use BC.

1. Open a route in BC with CNNA 2013 as the map, open the properties window and set the activity to Direct.
2. Make sure there are no more than 49 via points. (in the summary box)
3. Look at the route on the map, then change the activity profile to automotive (or whatever) and watch the recalculation. Does it appear to be what you want?
4. Pull down the activity profile select on the toolbar, (not the properties window) and select Edit Activity Profiles. Select the profile you are using (other than direct).
5.Select the Routing tab and look at all the preferences and avoidances, choose those that make sense for that profile.
6.Go back to your route, swap activity to Direct and back to whatever you just edited in step 5. Does the recalculation make more sense or less? Play with the routing options until you get what you want.

NOW, one last time set the activity to direct and transfer the route to the Montana. Before you activate it, go to Setup Menu>Routing and match all the activities and avoidances to those you just set up in the BC activity profile.

Note that you cannot edit the activity directly, but you can change the calculation method, avoidances, etc. Note that Lock on Road will have NO effect on how the Montana recalculates a route.

FINALLY, activate the direct route with the Montana set to the IDENTICAL map version of CNNA and watch it recalculate. If all goes well, the route will match the BC version.

Remember, you only have to do this once for each activity profile you will ever use, so it's not as difficult as it sounds. Once you have the profiles matched in BC and the Montana and they do exactly what you want, LEAVE 'EM ALONE!! (and back up these profiles from the Montana/internal storage/Garmin/Profiles folder to your computer)

Piece of cake!

Also, when you are creating routes on routable maps like CNNA, don't try too hard to outsmart the routing function by including a whole bunch of via points, and whatever via points you do use should be AFTER any intersection or on-ramp, or you will get annoying u turns, next exit loops, etc.

Generally, after much experimentation I have learned to start with the simplest autoroute, usually just two points, and see if it works as expected. If not, then I start adding via points to force it.

I have not had real good luck with CNNA autorouting out in the Boonies, so I use a non-routable Topo map and direct routing for those rides. Then you can have as many via points as you want. Besides, I like having contour lines and the greater cultural detail of Topos.

Although it is perfectly OK to leave the activity set to Automotive or Motorcycle before transfer, you will not be able to edit or reverse it on the device, which is why I always set it back to Direct before transfer.

Good Luck......have patience, Grasshopper....
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Old 04-09-2013, 01:42 PM   #7421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky TFS View Post
I have not had real good luck with CNNA autorouting out in the Boonies, so I use a non-routable Topo map and direct routing for those rides. Then you can have as many via points as you want. Besides, I like having contour lines and the greater cultural detail of Topos.

I have found that you can have as many via points for direct (point to point) routing as you want on Basecamp but only the first 250 will show on your Montana once you transfer the route to it.
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Old 04-09-2013, 02:36 PM   #7422
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Originally Posted by MasterMarine View Post
I have found that you can have as many via points for direct (point to point) routing as you want on Basecamp but only the first 250 will show on your Montana once you transfer the route to it.
Good to know!

I guess the wiki is correct, then ;-)
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:25 PM   #7423
Rocky TFS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterMarine View Post
I have found that you can have as many via points for direct (point to point) routing as you want on Basecamp but only the first 250 will show on your Montana once you transfer the route to it.
Right, 250 vias, 10,000 track points....my bad.
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Old 04-09-2013, 05:51 PM   #7424
Rydah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky TFS View Post
First, I would not use MapSource to transfer the routes to the Montana. Use BC.

1. Open a route in BC with CNNA 2013 as the map, open the properties window and set the activity to Direct.
2. Make sure there are no more than 49 via points. (in the summary box)
3. Look at the route on the map, then change the activity profile to automotive (or whatever) and watch the recalculation. Does it appear to be what you want?
4. Pull down the activity profile select on the toolbar, (not the properties window) and select Edit Activity Profiles. Select the profile you are using (other than direct).
5.Select the Routing tab and look at all the preferences and avoidances, choose those that make sense for that profile.
6.Go back to your route, swap activity to Direct and back to whatever you just edited in step 5. Does the recalculation make more sense or less? Play with the routing options until you get what you want.

NOW, one last time set the activity to direct and transfer the route to the Montana. Before you activate it, go to Setup Menu>Routing and match all the activities and avoidances to those you just set up in the BC activity profile.

Note that you cannot edit the activity directly, but you can change the calculation method, avoidances, etc. Note that Lock on Road will have NO effect on how the Montana recalculates a route.

FINALLY, activate the direct route with the Montana set to the IDENTICAL map version of CNNA and watch it recalculate. If all goes well, the route will match the BC version.

Remember, you only have to do this once for each activity profile you will ever use, so it's not as difficult as it sounds. Once you have the profiles matched in BC and the Montana and they do exactly what you want, LEAVE 'EM ALONE!! (and back up these profiles from the Montana/internal storage/Garmin/Profiles folder to your computer)

Piece of cake!

Also, when you are creating routes on routable maps like CNNA, don't try too hard to outsmart the routing function by including a whole bunch of via points, and whatever via points you do use should be AFTER any intersection or on-ramp, or you will get annoying u turns, next exit loops, etc.

Generally, after much experimentation I have learned to start with the simplest autoroute, usually just two points, and see if it works as expected. If not, then I start adding via points to force it.

I have not had real good luck with CNNA autorouting out in the Boonies, so I use a non-routable Topo map and direct routing for those rides. Then you can have as many via points as you want. Besides, I like having contour lines and the greater cultural detail of Topos.

Although it is perfectly OK to leave the activity set to Automotive or Motorcycle before transfer, you will not be able to edit or reverse it on the device, which is why I always set it back to Direct before transfer.

Good Luck......have patience, Grasshopper....
Finally, a great reply in plain, layman's terms! :
Thanks for taking the time to explain to the noob (me). I'll try this method as soon as I can get back on my computer. Like you, I always put my viapoints just after the turn, fork, etc. Just curious too, but would it be too much to ask you to list what settings you end up with for typical dual sport riding (activity profile, avoidances, etc.)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterMarine View Post
I have found that you can have as many via points for direct (point to point) routing as you want on Basecamp but only the first 250 will show on your Montana once you transfer the route to it.
Thanks, good to know. So that's 250 per route, or total? I like to break up the ride into several smaller routes, so 250 per would be easy enough. 250 total might take some modifying.
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Old 04-10-2013, 12:39 AM   #7425
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I think there may be some misunderstanding about routing.

We have a separate Routing thread for the Montana where I've tried to start at square one and define terms and then build up concepts, examples and best practices. Please read that and ask routing questions there. I am new to this and tried to gather up all the answers I found and summarize them there. (DRTBYK you were off on a trip so I'd like you to review it and bless/edit the info there please?)

In summary, after you have transferred a Route to the Montana, the Montana itselft has a limit to the number of points it can route - this refers to any kind of via point, be it waypoint or even shaping point from Basecamp. The limit depends on the Routing Activity you have set on the Montana via the Setup->Routing->Activity selection:

- For Direct routing (i.e. not auto-routed but straight point to point), only the first 250 points will be used and the rest will be truncated.
- For any non-Direct routing (i.e. auto-routing will occur), you can only have 50 points total in the route or it will NOT autoroute at all.

In my mind most people want to auto-route (i.e. non-Direct routing) so that the Montana firmware will have an algorithm that autoroutes based on your Avoidance preferences and the data it finds from the "routable" mapset that you currently have Enabled. So this is limited to 50 points total or it will NOT work at all.

Furthermore a best practice is to create the route in Basecamp then set the mode there to Diret before you transfer it to the Montana. This has several side benefits plus the main benefit is that it is then more editable (and reversable) on the Montana.
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