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Old 03-14-2012, 06:36 PM   #61
bpeckm
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Good read, good project... there is nothing like getting through it: all the learning and angsting, and then the satisfaction. Your attitude is good!




.....and the ole girl will be really happy with your loving hands...


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Old 03-14-2012, 06:55 PM   #62
crazydrummerdude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudolf35 View Post
we broke out the impact driver and with a few taps the oil pump screws where spinning free and the cover came of the oil pump.
Wish I could be so lucky:

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Old 03-15-2012, 06:19 AM   #63
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Laugh Plan at this point

At this point in time the plan is as follows:

The "new" motor case will be taken to a BMW indi shop to have the crank and all internals removed. Once all the guts are out of the case I will take it back to my shop and do a ground up cleanup on it; degrease, degunk and scrape off all the old packing that remains. Then, with the aid of a cleaner (a mag etching chemical) I will bring the stock alloy color back to what is should be. Once that is done, the case will go back to the BMW indi shop to have the crank and guts refitted with fresh bearings and measured to specifications - front carrier, front cam, oil and rear seal will be replaced; as will be the timing chain. At this point I will have a short block ready for cylinders and alternator fitment.

While the case is in the shop rutsy44 and I will tackle the transmission - new horizons to be mutilated - LOL!!

After the motor and transmission are in good shape the old girl will be reassembled and then we shall see how well everything went.

Stay tuned!
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Old 03-19-2012, 03:12 AM   #64
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careful with the mag cleaner!

Some cognoscenti indicate that the mag cleaner may stain more than help, so test a bit on a hidden-away part of the old block first. The recommended practice is to throughly clean, rinse, and dry that spot to see how the mag cleaner will work.
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Old 03-19-2012, 04:50 AM   #65
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Mag cleaner test

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Originally Posted by baldwithglasses View Post
Some cognoscenti indicate that the mag cleaner may stain more than help, so test a bit on a hidden-away part of the old block first. The recommended practice is to throughly clean, rinse, and dry that spot to see how the mag cleaner will work.
Good point on the testing! It is my SOP to test all cleaners on dead parts or spots that are not visible.

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Old 03-19-2012, 06:32 AM   #66
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Pissed Shim and bearing time

Having to wait on the BMW indi shop owner to come back into town, I turned my attention to the transmission. Now, as I said in the very early posts, there is a very soft rubbing sound when the bike is moved - or the wheel spun on the stand. Since the original motor died and the bike's motor and transmission are split I could isolate the sound to the rear output bearing - by sound. I spun the input, holding the output and there was no sound - ergo sum - the output bearing. Then engaging a gear and spinning the input shaft there was the rubbing sound. Last test, no gear engaged, spun the output shaft and the rubbing sound was back - still faint but there.

It does not take a 2x4 for me to realize I had to crack the transmission open. Again with the help of Rutsy44 (who organized the special tools needed - a big THANK YOU) the challenge was attacked.

We placed the transmission (oil drained) on the garage floor, mounted up the flange puller with the help of two long pipes broke the 24mm nut loose (had to make a tool run since my 24mm impact socket did not fit the hole in the puller - hint!). No problems, the nut loosened up and the puller plug (lack of a better name for the plug that insets into the holder to actually pop the flange) was setup.


Holder and puller plug

Now this is where things got very strange very quick. We all know that the flange is torqued down to some very high foot pounds. OK, as I spun in the central bolt of the puller plug, just to seat it, I was turning and turning. Since this was a mindless task I happened to look up and Rusty44 jaw was about to hit the floor. I quickly shifted my gaze to find that the flange was coming out of the back of the transmission with just fingers spinning the puller plug!?!?!?!


Super grip or @#$$## install


It is coming out - no foot poundage needed

At this point, I thought I was into some serious bucks to replace the output shaft - hand loosened flange means it spun on the shaft and #$%^# it up. OK, we already know that the PO should not have held any more complicated tools than a 2x4 - a short one at that - so onward and see what the grindage did. We picked up the transmission and moved to the workbench for a "look see".

First thing we found, besides grunge, was a toasted rear output bearing - knew that was to come but not "how" toasted it was.


Toasted rear output bearing


Closeup of toasted bearing

OK fine, we know the rear output bearing is toast so onward in the program and see what other prizes the gift box holds - time to heat the case and pop it open.


Heating the rear case in preparation to pop it open

Since we are doing this on the "cheap" rusty44 and I just heated, with a propane torch, the bearing area of the rear case and when things got a bit to warm to touche we tapped the cover loose with a rubber mallet (I do not use a metal hammer until rubber and wood fail me - tends not to break things). If readers wonder what temperature the case opened up at my only answer is "when it wanted to". I have no clue as to the temp; it was low thought - we could handle the cover right after it popped off as long as the fingers where clear of the bearing area on the cover.


Transmission cover popping loose


Moving the kickstarter just a bit and the cover was off


Inside of transmission cover

The inside of the transmission cover looked better than I thought it would. The area where the flange sites was not scored and was downright tidy - grunge yes, but no damage. OK, so far so good; let hope for the best.


Farm fresh inside of transmission



Rear output bearing and RUST

In the closeup of the bearing and the first gear it shows some of the rust we found. As we spun the shafts around we could see where the ancient "high water marks" was. It seems that this box sat for some time with water in the bottom of the case.

At this point we simply applied the blue flame of the propane torch to the inner race of the rear output bearing. While rusty44 held the torch to the bearing I applied upward pressure with two large screwdrivers - pop and the remains of the bearing came off with out to much fuss - needless no pictures since we both had our hands full. After the remains of the rear output bearing where removed we loosened the shift forks and started to heat the input side of the case to remove the shafts.


Just heated in the bearing area


Grunge transmission


Intermediate shaft out of case


Intermediate shaft on workbench


Intermediate shat, input shaft and shift forks on bench


All the shafts out on the bench

At this point it went strange again. As we where turning our attention towards the shift mechanism, I noted a object in the bottom of the case in a puddle of oil. Digging out the magnet I fished out a circlip?!?! We figured it was missing of one of the shafts or the shift mechanism.


Wayward circlip


Shaft less case

The shift mechanism was a story unto itself. Normally, after taking the shift lever off and removing the one bolt on the bottom of the case, the whole assembly should come out. NOT! We only managed to move it so far and it stuck. OK, we will take the hard path. Bit by bit the shift mechanism was disassembled until only the shaft and the spring remained. Then we applied the propane torch to the shifter shaft area to expand it a bit.


Removing shifter shaft

After the shifter shaft area was heated it took just a few gentle taps from the rubber mallet, holding the warm shaft with a screwdriver so it does not bind, and the shaft came forth.


Reason for shifter shaft not coming right out

At this point we had the shift mechanism disassembled but did not find a lack of a circlip. Also, none of the shafts where missing any circlips - other shims but that is another story.


Shift mechanism

At this point the case was basically empty and we just had to see what other goodies where lurking in the well. Out came the magnet and off on a diving mission it went.


No parts but plenty of rust and metal dust

Now it was time to see how bad the output shaft bought it. With the Clymer open we removed part by part and noted a missing "washer" but other than that nothing notable. We know the rear output bearing and the last "washer" in the stack are dead or MIA but where surprised to find that the front output shaft bearing was in good shape (yes it will be replace) for the hell the shaft went through.


Disassembled output shaft

Now rusty44 has been through a transmission rebuild class and with his help we inspected each and every remaining shaft and bearing. To our surprise, there was noting out of kilter. Even without the needed cleanup, the remaining bearings where quiet as can be. Ruty44 spent a good 10 minutes on each bearing to find something wrong, grinding or just making a sound - nothing dead quiet. Good, that saved a slug of money. I know that the "purists" will shutter at this but if the bearing is serviceable why not use it? I know the work of getting back in there and all that, but it is a toy and not a ICBM. If anything, this had shown me just how rugged the BMW transmission is. The PO had not assembled the transmission right, it sat in water, loose flange and blown rear output bearing and still it soldiered on. True, if I had more experience with a airhead, I would have spotted the source of the noise earlier but the PO stated that it has done it for "some time" and "several of his have the same sound" - I noted all that to point out that the transmission has been run for some miles in this state; not a good thing but a rugged transmission.

Needless to say, after everything was inspected a parts order was sent to Huck.

0723R 001 SS Gear Box Cover $1.90
0723R Kit 004 SS Shift Lever Kit. $15.20
07119981219 Output Bearing 6204 Rear. $19.50
07119981505 Output Bearing Front. $42.00
23001230911 Gasket and Seal Set. $43.00
23111066174 Neutral Switch Rubber Cover. $8.80
23411232116 Shift Rubber $3.75

True to Huck's service I already received the reply email with shipping added and all that remains is the cheque in the mail; rusty44 is also receiving the plate for the 4 speed, so it is waiting and cleaning time.

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Old 03-19-2012, 09:26 AM   #67
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holy crap batman, you are into it deep now...
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:06 AM   #68
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Thumb In deep

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holy crap batman, you are into it deep now...
The bike started out as another turn and burn project. But after the K75S project it turned into a "keeper" project. As I noted, the bike is fun to ride, the little I got out of it. Also, they do not make them anymore so if I want a older airhead it is time to roll up the selves, forget about the cheque book and carry on. Besides that, my better half now ordered me to keep the "old lady" - needless to say, "she who has to be obeyed" spoke!

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Old 03-21-2012, 08:32 AM   #69
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Thumb Gear selector forks

As one can see in the pictures, there was quite a bit of rust and general nasty stuff in the transmission case. We knew from the go, that the transmission had to be taken down to nuts and bolt, cleaned, repaired and reassembled. As the point was reached to remove the gear selector forks, there was no way to mark the location of the concentric in relation to the forks - to much surface rust.

"Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead" - the forks where taken out with the rest of the bit and cleaned. After a nice long soaking in kerosene a soft brass wheel was used to clean the surface of the forks. The forks came back to their nice stock shiny luster, sans marking (the concentric had the mark). What is a mother to do? With Clymer in hand the "Angst" subsided since they showed a tool to hold the output shaft.

After tapping Rusty44 and his transmission buddies I was steered towards a tool on Flea-Bay. I found the tool and purchased it. Now it is more cleaning time until the parts and tools all make it to me.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-Motorcyc...-/120282192857

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Old 03-28-2012, 05:43 AM   #70
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Wash-Rinse-start assembly

After cleaning all the internal parts, it is time to tend to the case. After a good soaking and scrubbing in a bucket of kerosene, it was time to degrease and make sure all the grunge was off the now empty case.

There is one blessing with living in TX, big tamale pots are easy to come by and dirt cheap. So the first step was to see what was around the house and relatives houses. BINGO! The one time the mother-in-law came through without snarling; a used and "garaged" tamale pot. Once the pot was secured, I filled the pot with a 50/50 mix of water and Simple Green (great stuff). The case and cover where submerged and left to soak for a day.


Soaking case and lid


Did the case dissolve?


Clean transmission case and internals


Clean inside of transmission case

Once all the parts where clean and laid out it was time to get some parts back into their respective locations. Since Huck's parts had just come in, but I am still short the output shaft tool (in the mail), the shifter mechanism is my first assembly function on the transmission.

OK, now that I know which way to head I grabbed the shifter parts box and started, with the help of Clymer, to make a shifter assembly.


Assembled shifter assembly

Now that the shifter part was whole again it was time to get it into the case. A little assembly grease, some choice words and things started to "fall" into place.


Almost seated

With the aid of the assembly lube, a piece of wood and some gentle persuasion from the rubber mallet the shifter assembly dropped home and lined up with the tang on the inside of the case. Now that was done it was time for the first critical setup and assembly - the shifter cam plate and ratchet. Again, with the aid of Clymer, cigar, coffee and some choice words the task was started. First find and get a good "eye memory" for the arrows on the parts.


Dry fitting the arrows on shifter cam plate

Once I had the setup dry fitted it was time to get real. With some lube on the shafts the parts slid home and seemed to hold the alignment.


Cam plate seated

After getting the cam plate home and the snap rings fitted it was time to tend to the angst of alignment. Using the better part of a battery charge on my rechargeable torch I made sure the arrows aligned when the cam was in the neutral setting (second notch). As I was playing/testing I noted that I could shift to 1st, N, 2nd, 3rd and 4th and then hit a stop. But, going from N to 1st I could then go past the 1st notch and hit air and slip the alignment totally. WTF!?!?! I must have played with that for a good hour but I could always repeat the same. If I am not totally off I would say that after 4th the stop kicks in; but going down it would be the shifter forks that would stop the shifter cam plate from going past first into nothingness and thus loose alignment and shift ability?!?!?!? ANYONE WHO KNOWS BETTER CHIME IN!!


Arrows line up on shifter cam plate


Better view of aligned arrows

As was noted, way up in this tread, it is the angst and satisfaction that make this project. Well, I have the angst part done so now it is satisfaction time. Huck's parts are in and the next step is the assembly of the output shaft. Plan is to assemble the whole thing, less bearings. Freeze it in a baggy overnight, then in the morning pop the new bearings in the over and heat to 200F. That is the plan for my next assembly evening; that is as soon as I am done convincing my work T-1 line provider, that they have their setup wrong after switching us from copper to fiber - I rather assemble a transmission, it is easier.

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Old 03-30-2012, 08:13 AM   #71
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Output shaft evening

As I had planed, two nights late, the assembly and re-bearing of the output shaft.

The night before assembly, I placed the assembled and baggied (less bearings) output shaft in the freezer. The next day I got the work area ready and placed the bearings in the oven at 225F so they expand.


Work area ready to mount bearings

After waiting 45 minutes, so the bearings are thoroughly heated, the output shaft was taken out of the freezer and stood on a socket to hold it upright.


Frozen, shrunk, output shaft

After the frozen output shaft was on the workbench it was a footrace to get one bearing at a time out of the oven and mounted. Both bearings slipped right home. Between the frozen output shaft and the heated bearings (plus a little oil) it was a simple drop the bearings on the shaft and their own weight drove them home. Mind you, I made sure they where seated by slipping a socket on them and tapping just to make sure. All in all, no problems mounting bearings on a output shaft.


Assembled output shaft with new bearings

While working on the output shaft the USPS came by and dropped off the output shaft holder I had ordered. With that in hand the next step could be contemplated - the adjustment and marking of the shifter forks.

Just to make sure that I know how to use the tool, I "dry" played with the new tool and the output shaft. I placed the shaft in the transmission case (did not set the bearing down) and placed the tool on the shaft to see how all that worked and lined up.


"dry" run on shifter fork adjustment tool

While I was at it, I also played with the remaining shafts to see how much of a pain it would be to get the whole cluster in the transmission case. I am attempting to preview any issues I might have once the case is heated and the shafts are mounted for real - better to have foresight than issues during the mounting.


"dry" run on the gear cluster

The plan now is to refreeze the output shaft, already in the freezer, heat the case to 225F and mate them up. Then the fun begins adjusting the shifter forks; but that is another evenings fun - Margarita time!

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Old 04-02-2012, 04:59 AM   #72
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Fun times two

OK, I am up to my knuckles in my /5 transmission and agreed to help Rutsy44 install a clutch in his R75/5 - why not? In for a penny, in for a pound.

Before Rutsy44 showed up I did manage to work a bit on my transmission. I had the output shaft freezing and so it was time to heat the case. I placed the clean transmission case in the oven at 225F and let it "cook" for about 30 minutes. Once the case was up to temperature, I retrieved the frozen output shaft and with a very reassuring "clunck" the output shaft seated in the transmission case.


Frozen output shaft in transmission case ready to adjust the shifter forks

Just about the time I got the output shaft seated Rusty44 showed up with his R75/5. So, since my case and output shaft had to come up/down to ambient temperatures, Rutsy44's bike was attacked. The bike was was blocked up, transmission removed, new clutch installed and test ridden all in a matter of 6 hours (lot of cleaning and BSing also).


Rutsy44's R75/5

Once Rusty44's bike was test ridden and loaded it was time to get back after my own little project. Now that the case and shaft where back to ambient temperatures, I mounted the output shaft holder and loosely installed the shifter forks.


Output shaft holder and loose shifter forks

Now the real fun begins. With the aid of the mirror and flashlight I began the task of adjusting the shifter forks. As per Clymer, I started with the 3rd and 4th gear fork, aiming to get the fork set so that the dogs are equal distant between the gears they move. After the 3 and 4th gear fork was set I did the same to the 1st and 2nd gear fork.


Adjusting shifter forks

After the forks where set, I started to play with the shifting to see how everything moved. All felt really good and only needed a bit of tweaking (matter of fact, I looked at some take down images and the factory mark on the adjusters are just in about the same place as my adjusting placed them ).


Adjusted and marked shifter forks

Now that the shifter forks where set, I removed the output shaft holder tool and heated the bearing seat on the case to again remove the output shaft. No problems, with a little torch heat the case expanded sufficiently to let go of the bearing and the output shaft came right out.

The next goal is shimming the transmission shafts. Rusty44 is checking on his BMW connections to see when the plate might be available for us to use. If it turns out that the plate is a long time in coming, I will go with the tried and true method of using calibers and a machinists flat (or a plate of glass; why not?).

With all that done it is time for a pre-Palm Sunday BBQ and Margarita time!
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:12 AM   #73
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Thanks for all the time you spent replacing my clutch!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....Al
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Old 04-05-2012, 05:17 AM   #74
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Laugh OK fine

OK fine, TX weather can govern what one is up to. In the last few days, I could not do much on the /5 having to tend to work communication issues; due to the tornadoes we had.

But not all is lost. I did manage to install the shafts into the transmission housing. I first took all the shaft, baggied them and placed them in the freezer. The following afternoon the transmission housing was placed in the oven at 225F to expand. After about 30 minutes of "cooking" the housing was placed on two 2x4 block to raise it a bit - give some room for the input shaft to hang out. After the case was ready on the workbench I retrieved the frozen shafts and oiled up the outer bearing races to make insertion easier. NOT forgetting the "disk" on the bottom of the output shaft I managed to get all three shafts and shifter forks into the case - talk about PITA!


Shafts in case with forks in the right spot

After the parts all came to ambient temperature I finished installing the shifter forks. Adding a bit of oil I then started to fine tune the forks and things seem to have come out fine. Needless to say, I will play with that a bit more just to cover my "6".

The next step is to check the shimming and button it up - first things first, RIDE time before the weather goes to the 100F.

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Old 04-08-2012, 05:03 PM   #75
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Eek Head banger

OK, the shafts are in and It is time for a bit of math. Using the Clymer manual I measured, remeasured and finally came up with a shim thickness of 0.35mm for the output shaft. What was really interesting, was how thick the transmission housing gasket is. It made up 0.32mm of the readings!

Oh well, so be it. Tomorrow. I will order two 0.32mm shims and after they are in the transmission will be closed up and my attention will once again be on the motor.


Called and talked to Dan of Cycle Works. I now have either one each 0.10 and 0.20 shim coming; or if he finds one, one 0.30 shim.

Now I have to sit back and think how serious I am about this bike. I can either just clean the motor with the guts in place and go for it; and take another chance of a seized something. Or, I can take it all the way down to a empty shell and bring it back up (empty to the point on not removing the rear main bearing - just inspect it; if it is bad it will also go). I am leaning to the empty shell way. I have three other bikes up and running and this is after all a PROJECT - something I have to keep reminding myself of; can you think "Money Pit?".

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