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Old 04-16-2012, 04:57 AM   #76
rudolf35 OP
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Wink Waiting work

Having ordered the transmission output shaft shims and motor front end tools from Cycle Works I had a some open wrench time. What is a mother to do? Easy, switch over to the motor work and see if the old damaged crank can be pulled from the polished case.

The idea is to see what the damage is and to see what color the damaged crank/rear main bearing is. If, and only if, the crank in the "good" used case is the same color crank as the damaged crank can I switch them. I would like to use the polished original motor case instead of the plain "weathered" case. If the crank colors do not match there is nothing lost since I will do a from a empty case build up no matter what.

So, how does one remove a frozen left rod so the crank can be pulled? Easy, cut the bolt at the connecting rod junction. Out came the drill and 3" cutoff wheel.


Cutting the connecting rod junction

I was amazed/puzzled how easy the cut went. Not only did the cutoff wheel make easy work of the bolt, but there was no collateral damage either. My guess is, that I knew there was nothing to loose, so I relaxed and trusted my judgment - just goes to show that a lot of the screw ups come from not trusting ones skills.


Cut left connecting rod

Once the connecting rod was cut it was a simple matter of removing the two pieces and then pull the crank out. One interesting point I noted, while pulling the crank out, was that the rear shim (the one on the pins) was held on during some previous assembly by silicone. The PO must have put a dab of silicone in the pin area to hold the shim in place while dropping in the crank; or the silicone was put there so that the shim could not slip when/if the flywheel was removed?!?


Damaged crank out of polished case

Now that the damaged crank was out on the workbench it was time to see what the carnage was all about.


Damaged crank

Easy to spot what the issue was! It almost looks like there is a crack in the left journal. Interesting thing is that the remains of the connecting rod did not look all that bad; given the fact that it seized. What it does explain is the metal shavings coming out of the side of the connecting rod when I first opened up the motor.


Close up of damaged left journal

Once the crank was out, I took the motor all the way down to a empty case state. Besides the metal shavings, that I created during the cutting, it was clean and no obvious sines of "cause". The damaged crank turned out to be a red one. The plan now is to wait for the front end tools and take the good case down to the same state (was not all cautious with the damaged crank - nothing to loose) as the polished case. At that point I can see what color code the good crank is and then start building a motor up from the parts I have on hand (plus a slug of seals, gaskets and new bolts). I have the Tamale pot standing by, so whatever case is the chosen one, will get a good soaking in Simple Green and a through blowing out of the oil passages (compressed air and brake solvent).



Cases waiting for tools and wrench time

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Old 04-17-2012, 07:14 AM   #77
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Tool time

The USPS truck sputtered by and I am back in wrench mode. Receiving the shims for the transmission will let me finish up that bit of the fun, plus with the engine front tools I can start back on the motor.


Cycle Works care package content

Having the shims would let me finish the transmission but first things first, time to play with the new tools. After drooling over the new tools I dug out the old dead crankshaft to see how the timing gear puller works - pulling the double wide timing gear sprocket defeated both of my pullers in the first attempt. After looking over the instructions on how to use the tools I attacked the job at hand.


Tool mounted and ready to do the deed

In the instructions, to remove the double timing chain sprocket, states that it requires a goodly amount of force. Well that was not a understatement. I needed to break out the 6' cheater pipe and then after the initial "breaking loose" all it took was leaning on the wrench - but the sprocket was coming off!


Sprocket moving off crank

After some serious crescent twisting the sprocket was finally off the crank. If all the functions of the front end tools are as good as the timing chain removal it was one of the better investments I have done on this airhead.


Sprocket on the workbench

Now that I had my tool "play" time it was time to get serious, transmission time. The shims where greased up and placed on the output shaft, as where the counter shaft shims. At that point I mounted the kickstarter so I can use it to move the gear/spring while mounting the cover on the transmission. Heat time - the transmission cover was placed in the oven at 225F. After a good 30 minutes the cover was removed from the oven and sprinted to the workbench to be mounted on the case. Needless to say, pictures where few since I had my hands full of hot transmission cover.


Transmission ready for cover


Cover on transmission

Mounting the transmission cover was a non-event. The biggest issue, was to handle the hot cover while moving the kickstarter and keeping from using my body as a fulcrum. Once the cover was on the transmission, I again removed the kickstarter and let the whole thing settle down to ambient temperatures. Since it was already past dinner time and more importantly, the BBC Top Gear season premier was about to start I put off the installation of the seals and cover screws until the next wrench session.

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Old 04-18-2012, 04:35 AM   #78
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Thumb Another day, another transmission

OK, another day and time to finish the transmission. The case is at ambient temperatures and it is time to install the cover screws and seals. The cover screws are no big deal but a feel good item that marks the end of a long process.

Mounting the seals was also no issue, using the shrinkage method. I placed the seals in a baggy and then tossed them in the freezer to shrink just a bit.

While the seals where shrinking in the freezer it was time to get the drive shaft adapter ready to mount. The part itself was ready but I had to come up with a method to produce 170ftlbs of torque. Cheater bar was the only way to get that kind of torque; time to put pencil to paper and figure out how much of a cheater pipe I need that has a sufficiently low poundage requirement that my scale can cover. My scale covers 0 to 50lbs; so 30 to 40lbs would be reasonably in the middle of it's accuracy range. Having my scales poundage range and knowing that I need to produce 170ftlbs of torque it was simple matter of math to figure out how long the cheater bar needs to be - distance (ft) x force applied (lbs) = torque (ftlbs). So, I came up with 5ft x 34lbs = 170ftlbs. Slipping the 1/2" breaker bar into a pipe I measured from the pivot point of the breaker bar 5' out and cut the pipe to length.

Once I had the figures and the cheater bar cut it was time to mount the seals. Taking the seals out of the freezer and giving each seal a light coating of white grease I proceeded to install each seal where it belonged. The whole process took longer to stage than to do (freezing and finding the right sockets/pipes drivers). Seals are in and now it is time to mount and torque the drive shaft adapter.


Drive shaft adapter mounter/puller installed

Having per-staged everything it was time to coerce my son to lend a hand (bribery woks!). With the aid of my son, the transmission was placed on the floor, with some lumber to level it out. Since it was a right twist to torque the adapter another cheater bar was used to hold the mounting tool steady and while my son held the transmission in place, I applied force on the cheater pipe to move the scale to 34lbs. Once I got the scale to 34lbs, I applied just a bit more force to get the scale to 36lbs and it was done.

Last item to mount was the spedo drive and the bushing to hold it in. The kickstarter will be mounted once I get a new pin. But for now, with a "no oil" tag, the ready transmission sits in the trailer awaiting it's first outing.


Grunge puppy used case

Time to move on! The good use case needs some serious cleaning and re-sealing but first things first - another clutch helping hand for another inmate. Having done Rusty44's clutch he enlisted my help to work on his wife's clutch - do I note a pattern with me and clutches? LOL!!!

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Old 04-18-2012, 08:17 AM   #79
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Old 04-30-2012, 04:57 AM   #80
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Thumb Other ills to cure

It has been a few weeks since I worked on the /5; but that does not mean I did not work on airheads. Rusty44 came back over and we put a new clutch, oil pump cover seal and rear main seal in his wife's R75/5. All went as planned with the exception that just as we where adjusting the clutch cable all but two or three strands of her original clutch cable let go. No reason to carry on at that point; the clutch did pull nice but since we needed the clutch to work, at least to load the bike in Ruty44's PU we called it a day. The bike is together and working fine save the clutch cable; got their money's worth out of a 39 year old cable.

The plan now is to tear the "new" used case down to bits and clean it all up. Do not need/want another nasty surprise on this one. But in the mean time it is riding time in TX. The temps are still in the "human" range so I use the time wisely, riding. When the temps soar I will hole back up in the garage and start the /5 tear down and cleaning - with pictures.

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Old 05-01-2012, 07:11 AM   #81
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Big Thanks to Rudolf35!!!

I am very lucky to have someone like him to take the time !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He's a Great guy and will answer even the most basic of questions.

Having me around sometimes is like having a 8 year old with a drivers license.

The general overall cleanliness ,or lack there of, led Rudolf35 to name my wifes bike "Dirty Girl" even after my

wife and I have spent quite a bit of time cleaning her since we got her .

Now that the rear main seal and oil pump gasket have been replaced the cleaning should "take hold".

There was so much GLOM behind the flywheel it took about an hour to get it free,including loosing the starter.

I have now recovered from trying to keep up with Rudolf35......Al
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:27 AM   #82
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Laugh Have been busy

As of late I have done nothing to the /5. Being TX I used the cooler Spring temp's to do this:

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=792837

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Old 06-11-2012, 04:38 AM   #83
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Onward

Things have settled down around the house, temps are climbing so the time has come to carry on with the /5.

The last time I worked on the /5 was to finish the transmission. It is done and waiting in storage for the motor to be rebuilt. The "new" used case is a grunge puppy. Between the baked on crud, leaking rear main, fins missing of the oil pan it is time to take it down to the empty engine case.


Grunge puppy

Getting into the tear down I was a bit lax in taking pictures but after a hour of getting dirty I ended up with the crank out and took note that it is in very good shape. I also noted that it is not the original crank for that case since it has Sharpie notations on it (date and sales price).


"New" used crank out of case

As I had the flywheel out I noted a few points. One was the leaking rear main seal; not a issue since I will replace that anyway. The other item of note was the one of the oil pump cover screws was buggered up. Three came out with a tap of the impact driver. The third did not budge. So, out came the drill and stepping through the drill bits the final hole down the center of the bolt was 5/32 and lo and behold I noted movement of the remaining bolt. Not being slow, I took a old hex key tapped it in the hole and the remaining bolt came out sans issues. Just to make sure I chased the threads and all was fine - quite a load off my mind.


Oil pump cover off and metal shavings from the drilling

The inside of the motor looked good. Nothing worth noting.


Inside "new" used motor case

Now the oil pan was a different story. Between the cracked off fin, the Permatexed oil pan seal there was a abundance of grunge/slug. Looks like this case has been redone but not tended to after the redo.


Oil pan with abundance of slug

Now comes the cleanup fun; time to obtain a cheap plastic bin to soak the parts in kerosene. After that, a pot of coffee and start making a list of the parts I have to order. I will also have to see what parts, besides the oil pan, I can salvage of the case with the blown crank.
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Old 06-20-2012, 04:22 AM   #84
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Thumb Finished scrubbing

After I disassembled the engine it was cleaning time. A good soaking in kerosene followed by a soaking in SimpleGreen I ended up with a case that is usable.


Clean used case

Not only did the case needed a good cleaning, but all the nuts and bolts and internals where subjected to a long needed cleaning.


Clean guts

Now comes the part that has been long overdue, the reassembly. Texas weather is heating up, the parts list is made and all that remains is finishing the "Honey do" list and it is /5 time.


Ready to live again

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Old 08-28-2012, 06:25 AM   #85
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Onward

The family medical issue has been winding down, could not go on the long late summer ride, but not all is bad. Since the /5 has been sitting for some time without any work it was time to get after it again.


Starting point

All the relevant part have been cleaned, inspected and the parts list sent to Huck. While waiting for the parts there is no reason not to start in on the basic assembly of the motor. The inner shim was LIGHTLY Yamabonded to the case and the crank installed. Once that was done, the carrier bearing was installed but not tightened down; waiting for the cam chain and various parts. I also installed the cam and tightened down the two screws with medium strength thread lock - the blue around the crank is Honda Molly 60.


Front with mounted crank, cam and carrier bearing


Crank and cam installed

Once the cam and crank where installed it was time to install the oil pump. I had a new oil pump cover gasket but the stock phillips cover screws where buggered. Being a cheap guy at heart I could see no reason to spend around $2.00US for each of the four stock screws; besides that, philips screws just tend to bugger up. What is one to do, Ace Hardware to the rescue. After a quick trip to the store I ended up with 5 (yeah, I buy the extra Opps screw to cover my "6") 6 x 1 x 20 allen screws that had the same heads as the counter sink stock screws; $1.00US each.


New allen screws ready to close up the oil pump

Also, just before mounting the oil pump cover I LIGHTLY Yamabonded the out shim to the back of the case.


Back of motor ready for seal, flywheel and clutch

At this point I ran myself out of replacement parts and it is time to wait for the brown truck. As soon as the parts come in the motor should be done in a matter of hours; I hope.


As it sits late August 2012

And to be dead honest, another reason to get the /5 finished is my "in the wings" project.


1998 XL1200S, 16,000 miles, cheap bike $1,500.00

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Old 09-05-2012, 08:22 AM   #86
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Wicked Waiting is a pain

Waiting for my parts to come is a pain. So, in the attempt to find something to wrench on I took a good hard look at the cylinders of the R50/5 (actually 600cc jugs). I noted that they look quite corroded. After coming to that glorious conclusion I took a wire brush to the outside and removed most of the corrosion.

But alas, the cylinders still looked bad - what is a mother to do with that? Media blasting? Do not trust outside work to "not trash" the bore; so the only other option is paint. After reaching that decision it was time to ready the cylinders for paint. Out came the tape and the blade.


Taping up the cylinders

After spending a good hour, wrench time is always good, taping the jugs I have them ready for some high temp flat black BBQ paint.


Cylinders ready for paint

Yes, there is still some corrosion on the push rod tubes but what the heck, it is a rider not a museum display.


Paint applied


Masking removed


Ready to be mounted


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Old 10-15-2012, 08:56 AM   #87
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Time to carry on

So, the family health issue has subsided and I am starting back up on the /5 project. The box of goodies from Huck arrived and it was time to start back in.


Box of "goodies"

Step one was to install the rear main seal, flywheel and cam sprocket gear.



Pre-soaking rear main seal in oil

At this point I have to state that I sought out the help of a local BMW indy wrench due to lack of tools (did not want to trash the rear main seal just because I did not have the right seal mounting tool). After he mounted the seal, I also had him mount the can chain drive gear again to cover my "6".


Cam chain drive gear on


Flywheel mounted with new bolts

The next step was to mount the cam chain itself. The indi stated, the he used single row chains on double drive setups to make mounting the chain easier, but since I had a new double row chain on hand I went for it. There seems to be several discussions on how to mount the double row chain master link - keeper in the front or the back. After reading Snowbums dissertation, stating that both options are fine, I went for the "easier" keeping in the back option. The reason I state "easier", is that the actual mounting of the chain's master link from the front is easier but the "fish" style keeper mount from the back is a patience game. After a few dry runs, I managed to get the fish style master link keeper in the right spot and with the aid of a small screwdriver clicked it in place.


Cam chain master link in place side view


Master link view from front


Alignment marks with master link installed

At this point it was time for a smoke and some coffee - got the chain on and still had everything line up.

Since the cam chain was on, everything lined up, it was time to close the timing chain area. To do this, the front crank shaft bearing had to go on. Again with some of Snowbums writings I prepared for that step. First thing to do was to get the front bearing hot, not glowing but to hot to hold in un-gloved hand. To achieve this, I popped the bearing in the oven at 220F while I dug out the right bolts and gaskets. Having all the parts on hand (bolts, spacer-nuts, large gasket and most important little "dot" round gaskets for the top) I retrieved the 220F hot bearing and drove it home with a driver that only contacted the inside race of the bearing.


Driving on front crank bearing

Need to mention at this time, that when I took the front bearing out of the stove, I placed the timing cover in the oven to get it to expand a bit so that it could seat right on the front crank bearing. Once the front bearing was mounted I placed the gaskets (making sure the two "dot" gaskets where in place), retrieved the cover and in a cross pattern snugged down the bolts and spacer nuts.


Timing cover on and bolts snugged

After the cover had a chance to cool to ambient temperatures, I backed all the fasteners off and then torqued them down to 65 inch/pounds. Being quite elated at this point I thought I might as well carry on and mount the connecting rods.


Ready to mount the connecting rods

After removing the old bearing shells from the rods, I installed a new set on each connecting rod and using new bolts mounted them in their respective position on the crank. Before mounting them, on the crank, I applied a liberal amount of Honda Molly60 and then using only finger torque on the new bolts, mounted them to the crank. As I was tightening the bolts I kept moving the rods up and down to make sure that everything is well seated and not binding. After achieving the tightest torque my fingers could apply, using a new 10mm triple square driver, I torqued the connecting rod bolts to 35ftlbs - again in two stages, first to 15ftlbs making sure nothing bound, then to 35ftlbs.


Right connecting rod mounted

Now that I had the connecting rods in, less of a chance to drop something in the case, I opted to close up bottom end. With the use of a new gasket, between the oil strainer and pickup pipe, I installed the strainer.


Oil strainer mounted on pickup tube

Having mounted the oil strainer there was no reason not to close up the bottom. On went the new gasket, no sealer used, the sump monted and the bolts where torqued to 65 inch/pounds. With that done, it was time to install the freezer shrunk front seals (had the seals in the freezer for a forthnight). Again, using sockets, pipes and other rubbish I had about, the front crankshaft and cam seal where mounted.


Front seals mounted

OK, it is raining (about time in TX) I still have a box of parts to no reason not to carry on - next the rotor, stator and points where mounted; also used a new gasket on the point area (square rubber strip).


Rotor, stator and points installed

Now, just to show how important the little "DOT" gaskets are I took a image of the area while back lighting the outside. This shows just how much space the dot gaskets "shim" the front cover out to match the main gasket of the timing cover.


Back lighted dot gasket area

Being that close to finish the case work I opted to mount the starter. This went without issues save the fact that I did not clean the starter. Mounted it anyway just to do it; has been bothering me so I am sure that I will remove it and clean it properly.


Started mounted


Front starter mounting bolt

After I remove the starter, clean it and remount it, it will be time to mount the pistons (pins are already in the freezer) and cylinders. On a side note, it is interesting how much drag the various components have on the crankshaft. I kept turning the crankshaft throughout the component mounting process (just to make sure nothing bound it), noted that it was getting progressively harder to turn the crankshaft. Just musing on how much HP is utilized in just making a motor function - or I was just tired and time to partake of Mexico's finest - Tequila.

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Old 10-16-2012, 04:37 AM   #88
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Thumb One step at a time

The dirty starter did bother me! So without much fuss, I removed the dirty starter and gave it a good cleaning. Remounted it and that took care of the anal-retentive bit.


Clean starter

Since I was already grungy I thought I might as well carry on and decided that it was time to mount the cylinder studs and cam followers. Since I had cleaned all the hardware some time ago it was a simple matter of putting a drop of oil on each stud and running it in. Using some group wisdom, from another post, I ran the studs in until just snug - not tight not loose (just to make sure that all are equal I measured the remaining threads on the base side; all where equal).


Studs mounted


After having done the studs it was time to mount the cam followers. I had marked each one, with the location it came from, so each one went back into their original location (given that the PO did the same thing).


Cam followers


Cam followers Molly60'ed and mounted

Now comes the fun part, mounting the pistons and cylinders. The connecting rod pins are already in he freezer and the next chance at wrench time will see them mounted.

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Old 10-16-2012, 07:57 PM   #89
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Learning a bit reading this. Hope it keeps going smoothly for ya!
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:25 AM   #90
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I had removed the studs from an R100S motor a long time ago and needed to get it back together. I believe this measurement is the same for an R50/60/5/6 engine also. The length of the cylinder studs installed is 9 15/16 inches. Use a carpenters square or machinist square set to this measurement and all studs are set to the same length. If you have two longer studs ( came out much later but can be found in /5 because they do fit ) they both go on the right cylinder in the two rear stud holes.

Your method may work. I don't know. If the studs are in too far though it will be obvious because the nuts won't screw all the way on and if not in far enough the stud will protrude too much. Should be obvious when putting together.
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