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Old 02-23-2005, 12:05 AM   #31
Possu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by configurationspace
I believe this is only for the left-side tensioner. Nobody seems to have troubles with the right-side one.

In the BMW service manual under Engine -> Timing chain -> Chain tensioner they have 32Nm listed. They also mention you should replace the seal every time you remove the tensioner. I can't seem to get a complete P/N for the gasket/seal. It's ?? ?? ? 963 308. I don't know what the first 5 digits are, the MAX BMW fiche doesn't want to give them to me.
When I replaced the l/h tensioner last December, it came with a new seal/washer included? No idea if this is standard or just the (German) Dealer using his initiative?

I also torqued mine up to 32Nm. I'll ask my dealer later for the part number as I'm in there anyway collecting GSA screen parts.
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Old 02-23-2005, 05:10 AM   #32
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Copper Washer for the Cam Chain Tensioner:

BMW Part No: 07119 963 308 - cost in the UK is a mighty 12p (22cents) & VAT so I guess that's the right part.

Should you not be able to get the BMW part for whatever reason, try an automotive store, the dimensions are:

Outside Diameter: 21.9mm
Internal Diameter: 18.3mm
Thickness: 1.3mm (still had my old parts inc. the washer. This may have compressed a little after being torqued up but not by more than 0.05 to 0.1mm max).
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Old 02-23-2005, 11:30 AM   #33
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Question



See that hex-head bolt under Jim's index finger, to the left of the roundel in the engine case? What's it for? Why does oil weep from the one on my bike?
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Old 02-23-2005, 12:04 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarveyMushman


See that hex-head bolt under Jim's index finger, to the left of the roundel in the engine case? What's it for? Why does oil weep from the one on my bike?
I think it holds the lower cam chain guide. It also provides the channel for all the oil to drain back out of the left head and back down to the crankcase, if I'm not mistaken.
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Old 02-23-2005, 12:21 PM   #35
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Fabulous job, Poolside.



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Old 02-27-2005, 06:04 AM   #36
yellow 1150GS
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yesterday I took the plunge/ literally!!!

I had the new updated tensioner installed at the dealer yesterday while I was having the valves adjusted and TB sync done. I spent the little extra to have it done there because of the part warranty when it is installed by the dealer. The mechanic and I inspected the old tensioner and compared it to the new one and came to several conclusions. After filling both tensionsers with oil and comparing the resistance to compression, we saw that the new tensioner at full compression is still approximately 15 mm longer than the old one. With the old one full of oil, you can still fairly quickly compress it so the plunger is contained completely in the body since the slot in the plunger allows the oil pressure to bleed of fairly quickly. The new one however is limited in it's compression rate by how fast the oil wil flow backwards out of the holes so it does not compress readily. Also with no way for the oil to escape, the plunger stays full when the engine is shut off so it does not have to refill and pressurize when the engine is started. Also the engine seems to shut down more quietly instead of making that funny knock that it does occasionally.
Results: at hot and cold startup and when running, the noise from the camchain is non existant. Before, especially when cold, the knocking from the left side sounded almost like a diesel engine and I felt that the noise couldn't be good for the engine. Also the engine now runs smoother than ever before. Since I've had the same mechanic doing the valve adjustment and tb sync since day one, we both agreed that the fluttering of the old tensioner especially at idle may slightly alter the cam timing making the engine a little rougher at low speed. It is now smoother and quieter than ever before and I'm very pleased with the results. This is what BMW should have done from the very beginning and I'm a believer that they know it. Why else would they be selling an improved tensioner?
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Old 02-27-2005, 06:22 AM   #37
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Yellow,
How much was the part and how much was installation, if you don't mind saying? You'd think it is something they would do to keep problems down. It can't cost that much to make one of those in mass quantities.
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Old 02-27-2005, 06:22 AM   #38
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Recall

Is this tensioner a recall item or do we have to wait until the old one makes noise to replace it under warranty? How long do these old tensioners go before being troublesome?

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Old 02-27-2005, 07:15 AM   #39
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Both sides?

If the results are a quieter and smoother engine, isn't this upgrade appropriate for both sides of the engine? I'm ready to do the swap, along with some overdue maintenance and other modifications.
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Old 02-27-2005, 10:12 AM   #40
yellow 1150GS
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it's not cheap!!

The tensioner is 204.00 retail (about 160.00 from Chicago BMW) and most shops will charge 1 hour labor to install. The reason the right side one does not seem to cause as much problem is that the cam chain on that side is much shorter and the tensioner is upside down on the bottom so the oil can't run out of it when the engine is shut down. I believe length of the left cam chain, the position of the tensioner, and the what i feel is the poor design of the tensioner all seem to contribute to the problem (I'm a retired machinist by the way).
I don't believe that BMW will ever consider it a warrenty problem for two reasons. First one is the fact that most of the R type engines that I've seen never get a very large amout of miles on them. At my dealer, most GS's that have been traded in seem to have less than 5k a year put on them. Several of them are 5 years or older and have less than 15K. Second reason is that most engines are not run hard enough to cause that much strain on the cam chain tensioner. My 2003 GS has 50K miles on it and every time the spark plugs are changed, the mechanic has remarked at how clean the plugs and pistons are because of how spirited I ride my bike. Oil usage aside (mine uses 10 ounces per 6000 miles of BMW/Golden Spectro synthetic 15w50 by the way) the carbonization problems that I had were due to "putting" around and not reving the engine (of course I don't bounce it off the rev limiter or "water torture" either). I use Shell V-Power or Chevron premium gasolines exclusively.
By the way, I got one of the last two tensioners in the country as of Friday 2/25/2005.

yellow 1150GS screwed with this post 02-27-2005 at 10:15 AM Reason: forgot to add something!!
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Old 02-27-2005, 06:10 PM   #41
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possible source for TB goop?

Jim, you probably took it off prior to the operation, but I happened to notice that the rubber plug that usually seals the vacum nozzle* (proper word?) is missing. Could that be a source for goop in the TB?
I pulled my TB's off on the W/E (simple job, really) and was quite surprised that they were very clean (compared to the one in the pic, anyway...)

Just a thought.
Phil
* where you connect the hose of you carb-mate / twin max / carb stix

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Old 04-25-2005, 12:13 PM   #42
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Thumb Installed mine today!!

Hello all--

I just got my new style tensioner installed today and wanted to add a couple of things. First and foremost, this write-up helps tremendously, especially in giving you an idea of what you are getting into. All-in-all, I would say this is a job that can be completed in ~1/2 hour for someone mechanically experienced and such, about twice that for someone who has only changed their oil or the like (don't be intimidated by that, as this is really not hard at all.)

One thing that has not been stressed enough, from what I can tell, is that you need to get a new O-ring for the junction between the breather tube and the throttle body; w/out a LOT of patience and tediousness this is a MUST. (Should be a must anyway, but I was able to get mine back in; I do not recommend this method.)

Thanks again for taking the time to put this down for the rest of us!!

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Old 04-25-2005, 12:35 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kixtand
One thing that has not been stressed enough, from what I can tell, is that you need to get a new O-ring for the junction between the breather tube and the throttle body; w/out a LOT of patience and tediousness this is a MUST. (Should be a must anyway, but I was able to get mine back in; I do not recommend this method.)
My bike didn't have any such o-rings. The last dealer to perform major repairs must have left them off. I didn't have any trouble at all installing new o-rings.

Did the new tensioner make a noticeable difference for you bike? Mine is now dramatically more quiet, in all modes of operation, especially when sitting in traffic on a hot day. This little project was well worth the effort and expense.
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Old 04-25-2005, 12:50 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarveyMushman
My bike didn't have any such o-rings. The last dealer to perform major repairs must have left them off. I didn't have any trouble at all installing new o-rings.

Did the new tensioner make a noticeable difference for you bike? Mine is now dramatically more quiet, in all modes of operation, especially when sitting in traffic on a hot day. This little project was well worth the effort and expense.
Yep, the new o-ring should install w/ no issues. The problem is, the old ones are usually "stretched" and when you take the breather tube off it is a beeeeooootch to get the o-ring installed w/out crimping/pinching it.

I have only had a chance to start the bike and run it up and down the street yet, but I'll report back after my ride home tonight.

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Old 04-25-2005, 01:34 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philschl
Jim, you probably took it off prior to the operation, but I happened to notice that the rubber plug that usually seals the vacum nozzle* (proper word?) is missing. Could that be a source for goop in the TB?
I pulled my TB's off on the W/E (simple job, really) and was quite surprised that they were very clean (compared to the one in the pic, anyway...)

Just a thought.
Phil
* where you connect the hose of you carb-mate / twin max / carb stix
About the hose barb on the bottom of the throttle body (where carb stix are connected), here is my late reply Phil.

Yes I did take the hose off. That bike has a crossover hose between the throttle bodies. The crossover hose was put there when the fuel tank charcoal canister was removed some few thousands of miles ago.

I do not know what the source of the 'goop' is, I am not even sure it is goop. I think it might be corrosion. I can't believe I did not look at it more closely. If you look at the pictures you selected, you can see that the discoloration stops abruptly at the rubber manifold.

Look at the inside surface of the manifold where it leaves the throttle body. It is spotless. That is why I think that the discoloration in the throttle body may be corrosion of some sort.

Some people report the manifold-side of their throttle body is clean, and others report discoloration or 'goop'. Mine were clean, and my bike has about the same 50K miles as the one in the photos.

- Jim

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