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Old 11-19-2013, 08:18 AM   #1891
garandman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty_uiuc View Post
in traffic i ride on the left, on the right, in the center, and in between lanes. i use the spot that gives me the best vantage point of traffic/the road and that makes me feel safe!

i view people that stick to the left side of the lane exclusively as brainwashed by the msf and lacking in real-world experience. you have an entire lane at your disposal, so use it!
I agree.

The best book I ever read for riding in the city was "The Art of Urban Cycling" by Robert Hurst. He covers everything from what pavement is made of to how roads are designed and up.
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Old 11-19-2013, 08:29 AM   #1892
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OK, just my $.02...

When I'm in heavy traffic (where it's almost bumper to bumper and I expect people are jockeying for lane position for no reason whatsoever other than they may get to where they're going 10 seconds earlier), I'm in the right track of the left-most lane. That way, I'm more visible to people in the lane to the right, and I have plenty of room to the left (the rest of the lane and possibly the shoulder) should I need to swerve, and I don't have to deal with the people entering / exiting the roadway. (BTW, my boss told me a few months ago that he went to change into the left lane behind another car, and almost hit a bike that he didn't see until the last minute because it was following said car very closely in the left track.)

When traffic is a little thinner, and I'm passing more, I'll stay more in the left track of the left-most lane to give myself the most space when passing.

Here in NJ, though, they recently increased the penalties for driving in the left lane when not passing, so I've taken to moving back to the middle lane more often in lighter traffic.
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lmychajluk screwed with this post 11-19-2013 at 08:40 AM
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Old 11-19-2013, 08:38 AM   #1893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marylander View Post
For my commute and the volume of traffic I deal with I believe it is usually safer to be in the middle of the lane. If you are off to one side you are much more likely to have someone from one of the lanes beside you pop in next to you (with or without seeing you) or even use the empty space next to you to pass you. Seeing something sitting in the middle of the lane is so much rarer than drivers coming in to my lane.
This is why you get in the left most lane and then use the right "tire track". You then only have 1 side lane to worry about.
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:30 AM   #1894
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Originally Posted by slartidbartfast View Post
MSF ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT teach that the left tire track is the best place to ride. There should be some discussion about it in a typical course, with students encouraged to share their thoughts on the matter. The fundamental message however is that lane position is dynamic and should be something a rider is constantly thinking about and adjusting in anticipation of changing conditions and situations.
Exactly.

Riding to one side of a lane also makes it possible to see ahead, especially if you're following a vehicle too big to see over.

I've applied the principles of the OODA loop to riding. I find that it works very well. It was originally applied to aerial combat, and street riding is very similar to that.

"The OODA loop (for observe, orient, decide, and act) is a concept originally applied to the combat operations process, often at the strategic level in military operations. It is now also often applied to understand commercial operations and learning processes. The concept was developed by military strategist and USAF Colonel John Boyd."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:08 AM   #1895
DAKEZ OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmychajluk View Post
OK, just my $.02...

When I'm in heavy traffic (where it's almost bumper to bumper and I expect people are jockeying for lane position for no reason whatsoever other than they may get to where they're going 10 seconds earlier), I'm in the right track of the left-most lane. That way, I'm more visible to people in the lane to the right, and I have plenty of room to the left (the rest of the lane and possibly the shoulder) should I need to swerve, and I don't have to deal with the people entering / exiting the roadway. (BTW, my boss told me a few months ago that he went to change into the left lane behind another car, and almost hit a bike that he didn't see until the last minute because it was following said car very closely in the left track.)

When traffic is a little thinner, and I'm passing more, I'll stay more in the left track of the left-most lane to give myself the most space when passing.

Here in NJ, though, they recently increased the penalties for driving in the left lane when not passing, so I've taken to moving back to the middle lane more often in lighter traffic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wlfman View Post
This is why you get in the left most lane and then use the right "tire track". You then only have 1 side lane to worry about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
Exactly.

Riding to one side of a lane also makes it possible to see ahead, especially if you're following a vehicle too big to see over.

First Rule of riding is THERE SHOULD BE NO RIGID RULES.

Right Tire Track! Left Tire Track! Middle of the Lane!

ALL Right and at times ALL WRONG.

If you want to be seen, apply ALL of the above.

Be Fluid and RIDE RIDE RIDE!
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:40 AM   #1896
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Pumpkin!

In San Francisco, on Dolores Blvd heading north,a hill here or there, two lanes both direction with median, during rush hour yesterday, and just as I crest one hill (limited view due to steepness of hill), there is a car stopped (waiting for a car to pull out so they can grab that parking spot).

Plenty of room to stop (and hope the car(s) behind me have equally good brakes and reflexes).

Brakes go on and it is then I notice there is a smashed Jack O'Lantern in my lane.

No room (car) to get in the left lane, so it is through the pumpkin remains I must go.

Rear wheel skids, front feels less planted, but doesn't wiggle, and then I am stopped with 20 ft to go.

Yay for good rubber!

Boo for idiots throwing pumpkins in the streets.
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:44 AM   #1897
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
Marylander, Donkeys, I disagree with you both. For over a year and a half I rode 80 miles, nearly exactly, each day (every day - including tropical storms where cars were stopped, water inches deep on the highway, etc.) on bikes for the commute.
Heh, let's not get too into numbers here. I've got over 300k commuting miles in the Washington, DC area and currently have a 110 mile round trip. The counts and numbers are all meaningless though (although I do like to keep track ;) ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
First Rule of riding is THERE SHOULD BE NO RIGID RULES.

Right Tire Track! Left Tire Track! Middle of the Lane!

ALL Right and at times ALL WRONG.

If you want to be seen, apply ALL of the above.

Be Fluid and RIDE RIDE RIDE!
This is the truth. You must constantly adjust to the traffic you're in at this very moment. What worked a second a go may no longer be valid.
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Old 11-19-2013, 12:27 PM   #1898
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On any roads around the Fort Worth/Dallas area that had any level of heavy traffic -- especially stop & go -- I prefer to avoid the center, as that's where the grease track is. Especially when combined with any sort of precipitation.

Beyond that, as said above, lane positioning is dynamic, depending upon what's happening at the moment.
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Old 11-19-2013, 01:41 PM   #1899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
First Rule of riding is THERE SHOULD BE NO RIGID RULES.

Right Tire Track! Left Tire Track! Middle of the Lane!

ALL Right and at times ALL WRONG.

If you want to be seen, apply ALL of the above.

Be Fluid and RIDE RIDE RIDE!
See my #1894 above ^^^^^

I'm as "Fluid" as they come. I'm liable to be anywhere at any time depending on what's going on at the moment. Riding in traffic's a thinking man's game, and I enjoy the challenge.
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:27 PM   #1900
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:36 PM   #1901
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
See my #1894 above ^^^^^

I'm as "Fluid" as they come. I'm liable to be anywhere at any time depending on what's going on at the moment. Riding in traffic's a thinking man's game, and I enjoy the challenge.
And I feel like my best option is taken from me most of the time. Lane sharing/filtering, please hurry to the rest of the lower 48!

(Yes, I contact my local reps every legislative session for this issue.)
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Old 11-20-2013, 12:37 PM   #1902
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty_uiuc View Post
in traffic i ride on the left, on the right, in the center, and in between lanes. i use the spot that gives me the best vantage point of traffic/the road and that makes me feel safe!

i view people that stick to the left side of the lane exclusively as brainwashed by the msf and lacking in real-world experience. you have an entire lane at your disposal, so use it!
This

There's no 'proper' place to be if things are in flux. Be where you're the most visible and the safest.

As stated: You've got the whole lane. Use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
I'm as "Fluid" as they come. I'm liable to be anywhere at any time depending on what's going on at the moment. Riding in traffic's a thinking man's game, and I enjoy the challenge.
Its like playing 3d chess where you're not quite sure how or when the pieces are going to move.

M
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Old 11-20-2013, 12:39 PM   #1903
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Olive-Drab US Army-style duffel bag on the road in a dark section last night - damn-near invisible.

( Max Smart voice ) Missed it by THAT much...
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Old 12-30-2013, 06:11 PM   #1904
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Today I saw someone driving an Ariel atom with what looked like a very nice suomy helmet. It also looked like the driver had an artificial right leg!

sent from a potato
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Old 12-30-2013, 07:58 PM   #1905
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I also use the whole lane, but in general, I tend to the right track of the far left lane, for visibility purposes both mine and the nearby cages. See and be seen.

When I am passing a car on my right, I temporarily move to the left track of the lane and then back again.

Right or wrong, I don't see any need in being any closer to a cage than I have to be at FWY speeds, sure I can move over too and I have the rest of my lane and shoulder to do so, but have you seen a tuner car suddenly jump sideways into the next lane? I have!

I don't have any visions of standing my ground and holding my position, like I see some riders doing with a cage inches away from their side at FWY speeds.

Stay the fuck away from people and try to anticipate their moves. That's my 2 cents.

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