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Old 07-20-2012, 07:23 PM   #496
WayneC1
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The Block Diagram for the shindengen is in their electrical specs pdf

You can pick up a copy for the earlier FH12 here

http://www.f650gs.crossroadz.com.au/.../VRegFH012.pdf
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:22 PM   #497
ebrabaek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneC1 View Post
The Block Diagram for the shindengen is in their electrical specs pdf

You can pick up a copy for the earlier FH12 here

http://www.f650gs.crossroadz.com.au/.../VRegFH012.pdf
Thanks..... That diagram to me looks like the control shunts the three phases on the backside prior to rectification...... Ie shunting the said phases to ground creating heat in the stator..... I simply cannot see anything shunting on the dc side..... It would take the battery with it......
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:30 PM   #498
WayneC1
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Yes that is the way of the world with shunt regulators, from memory electrosport used to have a tutorial on it all on their site
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:55 PM   #499
ebrabaek
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Originally Posted by WayneC1 View Post
Yes that is the way of the world with shunt regulators, from memory electrosport used to have a tutorial on it all on their site
So with that said...... I would like to reiterate my question...... By running high towards max of 400 watt total.... the stator would have to dissipate less energy within...... thus running a bit cooler.... How much... I'm clueless....but it would be interesting to see the connection......

JR.... could you mod your poll to indicate such draw??????
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Old 07-20-2012, 10:49 PM   #500
WayneC1
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It is an interesting question & one I have not come to a firm conclusion on, Joel would have the answer

As electrical load increases it pulls down the DC voltage & so the regulator cuts in less to keep output at 14.4 or what ever the VR is set to. So there are less peaks of very high current but a larger constant current of load

At the moment I am tending to think it would marginally reduce stator temperature but would stand corrected by more knowledgeable people if wrong. I have only been working with electrons for 40 years after all

On another front I had a thought reading the posts of the last 2 days.

There are a number of you with rotor's on the shelf due failures and Buell has expertise in mods on the HD rotors
This would suggest there is a pool of spare rotors which could be sent to Buell to see if they can come up with a mod.

It would work out that the spares people have & (I gather some have more than one) would act as a buffer for an exchange system if Buell could mod them. This could also put $ back in people's pockets with Buell buying them to mod & resell
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:00 AM   #501
JRWooden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebrabaek View Post
So with that said...... I would like to reiterate my question...... By running high towards max of 400 watt total.... the stator would have to dissipate less energy within...... thus running a bit cooler.... How much... I'm clueless....but it would be interesting to see the connection......

JR.... could you mod your poll to indicate such draw??????
I guess I'm not following you on the "dissipate less energy within" ... still on first cup of coffee.........
Would another way of saying it be: With high power draw from accessories the conversion (in) efficiency of the R/R consumes part of the power and turns it in to heat at the R/R rather than in the stator?

On the poll I think the only way to do it would be to start a new poll and try to coax everyone into voting again?

We are now showing 175 people voting with 29 failures so at this point the failure rate is down to only ~17% ... unless someone is stuffing the polling box ...
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Old 07-21-2012, 06:14 AM   #502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWooden View Post
I guess I'm not following you on the "dissipate less energy within" ... still on first cup of coffee.........
Would another way of saying it be: With high power draw from accessories the conversion (in) efficiency of the R/R consumes part of the power and turns it in to heat at the R/R rather than in the stator?

On the poll I think the only way to do it would be to start a new poll and try to coax everyone into voting again?

We are now showing 175 people voting with 29 failures so at this point the failure rate is down to only ~17% ... unless someone is stuffing the polling box ...
.... I feel somewhat helpless as well..... .... At this point it is speculation on my part, with less knowledge than Wayne..... Let's assume the bike running.....with little load... No light .....only the zfe....fuel pump....etc. Let's just for a monment say that the base load now are 25 watt's. That means that somewhere to the tune of about 375 watt's of heat is being dissipated in the stator by the r/r....essentially shunting the 3 phases to the ground. ( not a direct short....but a shunt) Now turn on the front light...... at say 50 watt..... consumption is now 75 watts....and only 325 watt energy shunted in the stator....rear light...25 watt 100 watt total and 300 watts dissipated in the stator...... You follow.... So with a higher load on the system.....the less energy needs to be shunted. Ticker.... remember the r/r does not dissipate the main part of the shunting...... as that happens on the ac side....that heat transfer takes place in the stator. The question is...... how much does this little theoretical difference affect the overall stator temperature...... Someone a whole lot smarter than me would need to answer that.....
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Old 07-21-2012, 06:15 AM   #503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWooden View Post

We are now showing 175 people voting with 29 failures so at this point the failure rate is down to only ~17% ... unless someone is stuffing the polling box ...
I thinking the pole is skewed a bit by the 0-20,000 crowd. Although there have been 4 failures reported, that group most likely contains people with basically brand new bikes. If you drop them out the percentage of failures doubles.
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Old 07-21-2012, 07:35 AM   #504
WayneC1
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ebrabaek, one thing to keep in mind with the stator is that it is generating the power so whether the power is consumed in the load or in the regulator does not change the power being generated & hence the heat from a constant load

The thing which changes under light load situations is the regulator shunts excess voltage more often and generates short durations of current higher than the load. Pulses if you like & it is the pulses of higher current hence higher power which are likely to generate additional heat
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Old 07-21-2012, 08:38 AM   #505
ebrabaek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneC1 View Post
ebrabaek, one thing to keep in mind with the stator is that it is generating the power so whether the power is consumed in the load or in the regulator does not change the power being generated & hence the heat from a constant load

The thing which changes under light load situations is the regulator shunts excess voltage more often and generates short durations of current higher than the load. Pulses if you like & it is the pulses of higher current hence higher power which are likely to generate additional heat
Correct....... The 400 watts are always being generated..... Just the variable shunting back through the stator.....
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Old 07-21-2012, 01:30 PM   #506
JRWooden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockinrog View Post
I thinking the pole is skewed a bit by the 0-20,000 crowd. Although there have been 4 failures reported, that group most likely contains people with basically brand new bikes. If you drop them out the percentage of failures doubles.
Yeah... what you said ...........
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Old 07-21-2012, 01:31 PM   #507
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I will likely either "detune" my OEM stator by adding resistance to the stator leads, or pick
up the ElectroSport stator... unless we get the oil cooling modification working ....
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:02 PM   #508
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Cry

Quote:
Originally Posted by bxr140 View Post
Since I'm lazy (and my rudimentary half assed search didn't provide results), what is the failure mode? Its it a more binary "it doesn't work now", or do they die an analog death? I'm having starting problems at ~30k and with the bike running I'm getting around 12.5-12.6 across the battery leads.
bxr140 - I'd say that your stator is on the way out. Should be putting out about 14 volts with engine running at ~2000+ rpm

Here's my failure scenerio:
Hot day 95 to 100. Stopped for construction. Forgot to turn off ignition; Denali's and GPS left on. After twenty minutes it was time to go - no display, would not start. Was able to jump start just in time for the next group thru the construction zone. Turned Denalis off. Almost died at the next stop. Tried to leave it running when we stopped for a break but it stalled. Battery voltage at 8 volts. Jump started it again, alternator output at 12 volts. Got to destination without it dying again by keeping the revs up at stops.

We had several days at destination. I bought a trickle charger and the battery took a charge to 13.9V. Off the charger for 12 hours was at 13.4V. Decided that the battery was OK. Shorai Lithium.

Gave the battery a full charge right before heading home - on another 95 - 100 deg day. By 100 miles the GPS was acting up and the ABS light was flashing. Shut off the GPS and the ABS light went out, but soon it was on steady. Not enough power in the battery to run them. Stopped for a break and forgot that when the power for the Zumo changes on/off the Zumo changes on/off - my GPS is wired to switched power. After the break the battery was dead - again (or still?). Was able to jump start it and make it home. Checked voltages when I got home: was about 6 volts with engine running and 6 volts when shut off. Checked the stator wiring: less than 1 ohm between the wires and between the wires and ground. That means the stator is shorted to ground.

Calling the dealer tomorrow - hope they have the new unit, and some sympathy.

Edit: 26k miles. Added to poll.
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RedHawk47 screwed with this post 07-23-2012 at 11:14 PM Reason: more info
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Old 07-25-2012, 04:09 PM   #509
C5! OP
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Thumb Good News - Compufire

yesterday I had to make an imprint of the engine serial number. This is a pain because it is right behind the exhaust pipes and the crash bars. But If you lower somewhat the crashbar and remove the alternator cover, there is just enough space to squeeze the fingers and do the trick.
In any case I was quite happy when I opened up the cover and saw the stator, this is the rewind No.3 and it has right now 7,500 km and looks almost like the day I put it in !!!



The rewind No. 1 lasted 5,727 km with the OEM regulator
the rewind No. 2 lasted 4,750 km with the OEM regulator

and this rewind No.3 has so far 7,500 km with the Compufire regulator and looks like new,
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Old 07-25-2012, 04:31 PM   #510
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LukasM was right! I got the compufire ready to install with the new stator as soon as it they are available!
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