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Old 05-16-2013, 02:55 PM   #871
JRWooden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderTheX View Post
Update on my bike... just got another dead charging unit and this time it is only 10k miles after the first one was replaced.

The first one failed at 17k and was replaced two years ago. Luckily I am just within the 2 year limit on warranty and have this one replaced at 27k miles...

I heard there is a new rotor design? I asked the BMW service guy if it was a different part number and he said yes... can anyone confirm this?

Can I expect more than 10k out of the newest BMW alternator? With my luck this new one will last exactly 2 years and 2 days and won't be under warranty.
There is a new "ventilated" flywheel design and it has been in the dealer pipeline for some time now, so that's what "should" be installed.
There is a picture of it here:

http://at.fotoalbum.eu/rubbermuh/a695272/00000010

The new and improved design (well duh) is on the left ...

The way my luck runs, I would want to inspect the replacement flywheel before it was installed to be sure that I didn't somehow get screwed over and get old stock...

"Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they are NOT out to get me"
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Old 05-18-2013, 12:20 PM   #872
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Just to add another story to the pot.... I brought my bike into the dealer March 30th as my warranty was up April 2nd. I knew something was up with the charging system, but I just wasnt sure what.

Couple days later the dealer says the bike is good to go, no issues other than loose battery terminals. I was skeptical, but they are the pros, so I went on my way.

Cue up 4 weeks later, I have only ridden some 200 miles since leaving the dealer, but have a 3k trip planned to ride California and up to Oregon.

I leave Moab and head to Torrey about 200 miles away. Almost took a more remote route to Bryce and Zion. Right by Lake Powell, my voltmeter holds at 11.7v. Thought is was just malfunctioning, but it slowly drops until 10 miles outside Torrey, my ABS lights go on, then dash/computer goes out. Cue my best "Oh Shit" face and I race into town and luckily find the only mechanic there as the bike dies in his backyard.

Hook it up to a battery charger and decide to try and make it to my home dealer without a charging system in the morning, so i unplugged everything including the headlight.

I hauled ass out of there and made it 120 miles and lost only .6v of juice, where my dad met me with a trailer.

Dropped it at the dealer and they are going to try and get this taken care of under a good faith warranty coverage. They said it helped I had it in for a potential electrical issue before warranty expired and I personally bought my bike new. I have my fingers crossed the dealer and BMW NA like me because I dont have the 953 dollars for OEM and I really really want to get back on the road before summer work starts.

Anyone have any experience with out of warranty coverage?

What might be the chance the R/R is bad too? They said they couldnt test it until a new stator is in.

*Oh and the bike is 2010 with 35k miles on it.
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Old 05-18-2013, 12:55 PM   #873
JRWooden
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I think they are going to (had better) cover you....

You took it in under warranty and they attempted to fix the problem using the most cost effective approach which is not to be faulted, but it didn't fix the problem which has now become more "obvious" so it should be considered a "come-back" on the older "in-warranty" service ticket and considered a warranty item.
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Old 05-19-2013, 07:21 AM   #874
JRWooden
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Unhooking the stator wiring plug from the bracket?

behind the triangular plastic cover on the right side of the bike there is a little metal "L" bracket
On it is a white plastic kind of "dovetail" plastic part.
There is a mating "dovetail" on the 3-wire plug from the stator windings that snaps into the one on the bracket - holding the connector in place.

Q: How is that little "dovetail" connector unhooked ... so that the 3-wire stator plug can be removed?

I swear I've done this before but ... forgot how ...
the fading light at sunset or the cold beer in my hand were both potential impediments to success....
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Old 05-19-2013, 07:41 AM   #875
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Try the << button and see: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...&postcount=518

It even starts out addressing you!

I bet my tall Canadian friends are more fun than your Australian.
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Old 05-19-2013, 11:59 AM   #876
JRWooden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaver View Post
Try the << button and see: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...&postcount=518

It even starts out addressing you!

I bet my tall Canadian friends are more fun than your Australian.

If I wasn't such a whacko I'd be embarrassed ...
SO THAT'S how I did it last time ....

You shouldn't belittle my Australian friend ... at least until you've been introduced!
They say a lot of the enjoyment derived from beer is based on how it's presented ...
It's hard to top this presentation wouldn't you say?

http://www.beertripper.com/OffTopic/...s_Cleavage.jpg

Mod: The above link is possibly NSFW ...
(but only if you work in a prudish place but there's no real nudity)

JRWooden screwed with this post 05-19-2013 at 12:08 PM
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Old 05-21-2013, 07:08 AM   #877
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JRWooden, I have a few suggestions - I hope you don't mind.
When you wire things up, if you separate the 3 stator leads, it becomes possible and easy to measure the current through each phase with a clamp-on AC current probe. Could prove interesting.
Also when using the scope, setting the trigger level will change what you see on the screen and when you see it. For example, Auto trigger will show a trace continuously and let you see and measure the AC ripple that is coming from the r/r. Setting the trigger to manual and adjusting it up until the trace stops will then result in a one-shot, i.e. single trace of each transient when/if it comes along, which could be easily missed in auto trigger mode. It least if they are as rare as I hope they are.
Being able to apply an adjustable load (like a heated vest with controller) may allow you to max out the r/r so you can assess the capacity of the charging system through a range of rpm.
Probably you were planning all of that anyway.
Just a curious spectator...
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Old 05-21-2013, 01:33 PM   #878
JJJZJ
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Quick question as I await to see if BMW will cover my stator, If any of the three legs of the stator are bad, will the bike still charge? Or does it only charge if all three are functioning?

The reason I ask is that the service manager said when I had the bike in the shop a few weeks back, the tech merely checked to see if the battery was charging and at what voltage. Didnt sound like he ran a voltmeter across the legs of the stator. The service manager said the bike wouldnt charge if any are bad.

The first BMW rep(not the ultimate decision maker) said bike was charging fine a few weeks ago under warranty, now that its not and its out of warranty, its not their problem. This response isnt the final one, but it certainly shows the direction they are leaning I reckon.
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Old 05-21-2013, 02:59 PM   #879
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJJZJ View Post
Quick question as I await to see if BMW will cover my stator, If any of the three legs of the stator are bad, will the bike still charge? Or does it only charge if all three are functioning?

The reason I ask is that the service manager said when I had the bike in the shop a few weeks back, the tech merely checked to see if the battery was charging and at what voltage. Didnt sound like he ran a voltmeter across the legs of the stator. The service manager said the bike wouldnt charge if any are bad.

The first BMW rep(not the ultimate decision maker) said bike was charging fine a few weeks ago under warranty, now that its not and its out of warranty, its not their problem. This response isnt the final one, but it certainly shows the direction they are leaning I reckon.
BMW's charging system may well be more sophisticated than the old systems I know a little about, but typically a break in one leg of the stator windings would result in reduced output and a large increase in AC ripple (heard in a car on the AM radio as a new whiny sound). There could also be a short-circuit - same effect as a break. In both cases it could start out as an intermittent fault, maybe more or less frequent depending on temperature or vibration.
In my experience, intermittent faults become worse until at some point they become permanent. A thorough check of the charging system puts a load on the battery to ensure it's up to snuff and then does so again on the system while the bike is running. It's possible the fault was intermittent when they checked it and so missed the problem.

The shop should have a record of your prior complaint and date the failure to that recognizing they missed catching something in the middle of failing.

And then they should step up and fix it under warranty.
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Old 05-21-2013, 04:29 PM   #880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJJZJ View Post
Quick question as I await to see if BMW will cover my stator, If any of the three legs of the stator are bad, will the bike still charge? Or does it only charge if all three are functioning?

The reason I ask is that the service manager said when I had the bike in the shop a few weeks back, the tech merely checked to see if the battery was charging and at what voltage. Didnt sound like he ran a voltmeter across the legs of the stator. The service manager said the bike wouldnt charge if any are bad.

The first BMW rep(not the ultimate decision maker) said bike was charging fine a few weeks ago under warranty, now that its not and its out of warranty, its not their problem. This response isnt the final one, but it certainly shows the direction they are leaning I reckon.
It could charge.... A little. The BMW manual, I am sure, will cover a full diagnosis, which will include a AC check of the stator..... How do I know this...... The Germans are hardwired for procedures. No if's....when's....or butt's..... If you have an idiot tech.... he could perhaps just hook up a lead to the battery with bike off.... then see a small rise in voltage....albeit a very small one, and call it good stator.....

(ps) the long explanation... It is plausible for the stator only to short say a few windings, thus only damaging one of the phases, and work for a while..... longer.
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Old 05-21-2013, 04:58 PM   #881
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Interesting, I dont really know what happened other than total failure outside Lake Powell, but I know it wasnt charging or running accessories like it used to for 1500 miles preceeding that.

Im not really that bothered by this issue, other than I have lost a week on the road travelling and seeing friends.

I think I am going to overnight a Rick's stator tomorrow if I dont hear something. Money comes and goes, but time is finite and it sucks just sitting around.
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Old 05-21-2013, 08:50 PM   #882
JRWooden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbh View Post
JRWooden, I have a few suggestions - I hope you don't mind.
When you wire things up, if you separate the 3 stator leads, it becomes possible and easy to measure the current through each phase with a clamp-on AC current probe. Could prove interesting.
Also when using the scope, setting the trigger level will change what you see on the screen and when you see it. For example, Auto trigger will show a trace continuously and let you see and measure the AC ripple that is coming from the r/r. Setting the trigger to manual and adjusting it up until the trace stops will then result in a one-shot, i.e. single trace of each transient when/if it comes along, which could be easily missed in auto trigger mode. It least if they are as rare as I hope they are.
Being able to apply an adjustable load (like a heated vest with controller) may allow you to max out the r/r so you can assess the capacity of the charging system through a range of rpm.
Probably you were planning all of that anyway.
Just a curious spectator...
dbh ... bring on the good ideas!
Thanks for suggestions so far!
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Old 05-21-2013, 09:01 PM   #883
WayneC1
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Speaking of transients

One thing which has not been discussed which came to mind is the effect of a lithium battery, it strikes me that since the Lithiums are a lower impedance battery they should be better at absorbing any high frequency transients than a conventional lead acid battery, this would mean they are a better choice if using a series pass VR

Would be interested in Joel's thoughts on it and perhaps stand corrected

The GS single is known to have some noise problems when there are poor battery connections, have not heard comments on the twin
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:28 PM   #884
JRWooden
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Well... Reaver came by yesterday and forced me into drinking beer and shooting the shit with him and got me all distracted ...

He headed out this morning and I managed to stay focused long enough to get the Cycle Electrics Regulator all wired up using the plugs from the dead R/R that imintman sent me (thanks again imintman!) which will allow me to do quick swaps between the OEM and the series R/R to capture data...

A brief functional test showed no issues, am hoping to go do some detailed side-by-side testing (per Joel & DBH's suggestions) at my EE buddie's house over the weekend.

JRWooden screwed with this post 05-25-2013 at 04:51 AM
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:05 PM   #885
WayneC1
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Watch out I see more beer drinking in your future
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