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Old 08-18-2013, 07:42 AM   #916
vtbob
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FWIW relating oil with stator failure.

It is clear that the early F800 of all type have a stator over heating problem. BMW seems to have decide to solve this with with a rotor design that flings more oil.

For those of us with the old design rotor/stator (or aftermarket stator) we just have to live with the problem.

However, after removing my stator and looking at it's black and carbonized condition (but not yet failed), I have begun to think that part of the carbonization is due the engine oil being toasted and turning to black carbon deposits. Over time these deposits seem to build up, ie get thicker. I think this extra thick deposits for thermal insulation which in fact accelerates the overheating failure of the stator.

A corollary to this MIGHT be...a benefit in changing to full synthetic oil at it has better high temperature performance. Could synthetic oil toast less...black deposit built up slower....delay the over temperature failure of the stators???

Just speculation
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Old 08-18-2013, 08:11 AM   #917
MikeMike
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Maybe you are on to something, Bob.
What I was thinking was that impurities in the oil when running on the BMW 10,000kms/6,000 mile change schedule could be breaking down the oil and generate more heat. I haven't measured it, but I swear the pipes on the new F bikes (post-2013 models) are positioned a little farther away from the engine case. If I get a chance, I will measure this and compare it to mine.
Changing the rotor is tantamount to Spandau recognizing a problem with the early models. Now, if someone can explain why the changed the switchgear and screwed that up?
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Old 08-18-2013, 08:14 AM   #918
ebrabaek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtbob View Post
FWIW relating oil with stator failure.

It is clear that the early F800 of all type have a stator over heating problem. BMW seems to have decide to solve this with with a rotor design that flings more oil.

For those of us with the old design rotor/stator (or aftermarket stator) we just have to live with the problem.

However, after removing my stator and looking at it's black and carbonized condition (but not yet failed), I have begun to think that part of the carbonization is due the engine oil being toasted and turning to black carbon deposits. Over time these deposits seem to build up, ie get thicker. I think this extra thick deposits for thermal insulation which in fact accelerates the overheating failure of the stator.

A corollary to this MIGHT be...a benefit in changing to full synthetic oil at it has better high temperature performance. Could synthetic oil toast less...black deposit built up slower....delay the over temperature failure of the stators???

Just speculation
I will second that speculation Bob. I have run synthetic in mine since 1500 miles, and changed it every 3000 miles, due to living in the desert. So when I did into mine, it could be a good indicator of this..... except for the fact that I have had the mosfet R/R in it for the past 3K miles, and soon to have a series R/R.
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Old 08-18-2013, 08:22 AM   #919
bross
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtbob View Post
FWIW relating oil with stator failure.

It is clear that the early F800 of all type have a stator over heating problem. BMW seems to have decide to solve this with with a rotor design that flings more oil.

For those of us with the old design rotor/stator (or aftermarket stator) we just have to live with the problem.

However, after removing my stator and looking at it's black and carbonized condition (but not yet failed), I have begun to think that part of the carbonization is due the engine oil being toasted and turning to black carbon deposits. Over time these deposits seem to build up, ie get thicker. I think this extra thick deposits for thermal insulation which in fact accelerates the overheating failure of the stator.

A corollary to this MIGHT be...a benefit in changing to full synthetic oil at it has better high temperature performance. Could synthetic oil toast less...black deposit built up slower....delay the over temperature failure of the stators???

Just speculation
Different bike but same problem. My Honda CBF1000 toasted its stator in 18,000kms running AMSOIL full synthetic from the first service on. The first gen CBFs are still toasting stators to this day. Honda's fix on the 2nd gen CBF was to add a few more oil passages into the stator chamber, obviously trying to do the same thing BMW is doing, trying to get more oil there. Seems to be working on the gen 2s as I haven't heard of a failure yet and they are getting enough miles on them now two years into their production. Oil or oil change intervals aren't the answer, sorry.

I replaced my fried stator with a new Honda part but swapped out the r/r for a Compufire unit which many had success with. Only rode the bike for another 8000 kms before selling it for a Tiger so not sure if the Compufire fixed there em or not. Good luck.
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Old 08-18-2013, 04:58 PM   #920
rockinrog
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With 60200miles on the odom my Battery Bug indicated that something wasn't right. Lacking the tools/know how to do all the electrical testing I went on a hunch that it was the stator. Notice the one coil that is clean-no oil I wonder whats up with that? Judging by other pics I have seen here I am guessing my hunch was correct?


WARNING: after you remove the cover you will see black gunk that you will be temped to reach in an wipe out. DON"T do it with your finger---its as sharp as a razor blade in there...don't ask how I know

rockinrog screwed with this post 08-18-2013 at 06:18 PM Reason: spelling
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Old 08-18-2013, 08:23 PM   #921
rockinrog
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Can anyone confirm that the wire to the stator is the one I marked<<<
I wasn't sure if bobo was pointing to it or if its the one behind his finger.
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Old 08-18-2013, 08:43 PM   #922
JRWooden
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Your stator looks very weird...
never seen one with a single pole a different color like that ... I wonder if it got so hot the insulation flaked off or something?

But anyway ... yes the rectangular connector with 3 yellow wires is the one coming from the stator ... going to the R/R
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Old 08-18-2013, 09:25 PM   #923
rockinrog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWooden View Post
Your stator looks very weird...
never seen one with a single pole a different color like that ... I wonder if it got so hot the insulation flaked off or something?

But anyway ... yes the rectangular connector with 3 yellow wires is the one coming from the stator ... going to the R/R
Thanks JR.
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Old 09-09-2013, 04:20 PM   #924
Dorito
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Another tale from the land of Stators..

My poor dear Dorito nearly laid down on me at the start of my 16 day trip. Here's a quick snipe-it from the RR. All in all, she purred like a kitten the rest of the trip, so we only lost 24 hrs. 52,144 miles. F650GS twin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorito View Post
Just a quick update!

Yesterday started out calm enough. We met at the WaWa in the center of Rt301. Except there are no less than 3 of those. Next time well take the guess work out of the rendezvous point and just meet at the big oak tree in the crook of the road

Anyhow, we happily galloped up to the our first stop, Millersville to Millersburg ferry. It's the oldest wooden ferry still in operation.



Then the ferry operator send us to his favorite haunt for lunch. The Red Rabbit. It sounds like a code name. And apparently our directions were so good, and we didn't find it.

The we departed on RT322 for the bridge. I'll let Lakota fill you in, as Blaster and I had a wee bit of a problem. After stopping for gas. Dorito muled-heeled on me. Refused to start. Pull the voltmeter out. 11.5V.

The stator has taken a turn for the dark side. KeithMcKenny cheerfully offers me a new battery to head for home. We are only 370 miles and 5 hrs before sundown, and 2V before the bike dies from lack of power.

What could possibly go wrong?

As the sun sets, I am tight in formation on Blasters tale. Eventually, he gets one of the better ideas and put his head lamp for camping on my windshield. Not much for making the road bright, but atleast it was a maker.

After an almost disastrous mistake stopping for a light at Breezewood, I realized the RPMs must stay above 4000.

Sun set around 2030 and we still had another 1.5 hrs and a gas stop to go. As we pulled in for gas, I stayed on and Blaster fueled me. Then I would circle the parking lot until he was done.

Finally we made it home.

Today, we trouble shot the problem. It needed a new, $1100 stator.



However, you know BMWs motto, we make good bikes and continue to improve them. I had bought a spare last year when BMW had 30% coupons.


New Design (Notice the BIG oil holes)


Old Design


We had some wins putting it together, it need a 14MM allen wrench, and somehow we had one that big. I had also bought the two special tools and the gasket. Yup, I bought a gasket for the OTHER side of the motor. Dispair.

Never worry, I live with MacGuyer!

Did you know you can make fancy gaskets?


[Note: Use a shell casing without a primer when hammering it!]


And Done...very nice!


Off to head the most due north. Hoping to make 1000 miles by Monday night and rendezvous with Lakota and Keith.
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Old 09-09-2013, 04:57 PM   #925
JRWooden
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Nicely done Dorito!

I've never seen a friggin 30% off coupon that worked for service parts ... where the hell do they come from????

I have a set of "cork borers" which are used in chemistry laboratories to "bore" holes in corks / stoppers of chemistry flasks for glass tubing. They work awesomely well for gaskets and an entire set of graduated sizes can be had for $10 - $25 USD.... but I do like the cartridge cutter!
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Old 09-09-2013, 05:02 PM   #926
blaster11
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Originally Posted by JRWooden View Post
I've never seen a friggin 30% off coupon that worked for service parts ... where the hell do they come from????
Last year they were giving them away at the international motorcycle show here in DC if you took a 2 minute survey, the coupon was good for anything with a BMW part number. Pretty sweet deal...going again this year just to see if they are giving away coupons again.
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Old 09-09-2013, 06:04 PM   #927
JRWooden
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Originally Posted by blaster11 View Post
Last year they were giving them away at the international motorcycle show here in DC if you took a 2 minute survey, the coupon was good for anything with a BMW part number. Pretty sweet deal...going again this year just to see if they are giving away coupons again.
Thanks ... I missed that at the show last year, and .....
bummer it looks like Charlotte NC is off the list for this year which is closest for me ...................
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Old 09-10-2013, 06:45 PM   #928
Singletrack_mind
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Damn, it took me a week to read this thread in my spare minutes. There's some really commendable experimenting and theorizing in the first third of the thread! Having read all that I feel like I have a solid handle on what's happening here. Of course I'm reading it now because the stator on my 2009 GS800 burned up at 31,422 miles.

I wish I could afford BMW's fix, because it looks like the way things should have been done the first time 'round . . . but that's a lot of money. Since I (and others) will continue to look at cheaper solutions, I encourage folks who've gotten aftermarket stators or re-winds to post their experiences as the miles stack up so we can judge what's a viable alternative and what's not.

BTW, as a hopefully interesting side observation; Years ago when I raced a Honda Hawk superbike, we dyno'ed the difference between a built engine running an alternator and then with the alternator removed. There was a 5hp difference on top with the stator removed. For a bike making low to mid 70s, this was a big deal. This suggests to me that the performance and fuel economy gains of the series-style RR might be pretty noticeable. (the HP is lost in generating that 400w all the time. Any time it's generating less, the HP required to turn the alternator drops & you get to use it at the rear tire instead)
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Old 09-10-2013, 08:06 PM   #929
JRWooden
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Originally Posted by Singletrack_mind View Post
... BTW, as a hopefully interesting side observation; Years ago when I raced a Honda Hawk superbike, we dyno'ed the difference between a built engine running an alternator and then with the alternator removed. There was a 5hp difference on top with the stator removed. For a bike making low to mid 70s, this was a big deal. This suggests to me that the performance and fuel economy gains of the series-style RR might be pretty noticeable. (the HP is lost in generating that 400w all the time. Any time it's generating less, the HP required to turn the alternator drops & you get to use it at the rear tire instead) ...
It could all be in my head, but I agree ...

I'm surprised you saw 5HP but I don't know anything about the details of the Hawk ...

400W = ~0.5HP ... but still I see no excuse to piss it away, burning up more gasoline, and wasting HP, and most importantly reducing the reliability of the bike.

Speaking of wasting things... can I help you waste some more time?
Did you see this thread?

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=890729
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Old 09-10-2013, 08:46 PM   #930
Singletrack_mind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWooden View Post

Speaking of wasting things... can I help you waste some more time?
Did you see this thread?

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=890729


No waste there, more good stuff.

I've just ordered up an Electrosport stator . . . and a series type CE regulator from Jack at roadster. And a Battery Bug while I'm at it, so I can keep an eye on things.

Singletrack_mind screwed with this post 09-13-2013 at 08:58 PM
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