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Old 07-19-2011, 07:07 AM   #1
adventure950 OP
Anglo-Saxon
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Northumberland UK
Oddometer: 507
HPN Paris Dakar replica

I have for years fancied a HPN and did infact have my chassis booked in for a build at HPN - but due to an injury and loss of earnings had to cancel at the last moment.
Fast forward a year to now and back on track for the project - I have tried to re contact HPN several times by phone, letter and e mail. I have been met with no reply.
My new course of action is to build the HPN replica myself using contacts and local fabricators.
I am using not my own gs chassis but a spare 247 r80st chassis for the build -
The Chassis is now bead blasted and is now in the hands to be fabricated into a HPN replica for a tiny amount of the cost of the price charged by HPN (getting good mates rates on the job) by two good friends who run a chassis and fabricating workshop. Colin a genius in engineering and with years of knowledge of motorcycle building, chassis fabrication and a workshop with frame jigs, etc is behind the scenes on the build, whilst Rob is taking the project lead , A welder and fabricator, with experience in several environments from lorry fabrication and also military armoured vehicles (He is now a lecturer in welding at Newcastle college) and has also had till recently a fabrication workshop building racing quads along with various construction projects from kit cars to lorry conversions together they are undertaking the work of the Chassis.
The Chassis has been checked for straightness and is currently having the various plates made up before being checked for fit then tacked into place for the frame strengthening, the frame will then be reset in the jig before welding some minor deviation from the HPN concept will be included to customise the chassis totally for my own requirements. This way I can use neater and different components that suit my build rather than being stuck to a set format from HPN.
The sub frame, rack and swing arm again will be built up at Rob and Colins workshop. Once all built the frame, sub frame and swingarm will be de stressed and checked for trueness prior to going for powder coating.
However the basic build principals are the same - twin shock rear end with specific built wilbers piggy backed shocks, Complete original HPN white power front end -sourced from e bay germany for 600.00, needs a service and tidy up but otherwise fine. I am using HPN Tank and fairing as I already have these to hand. I need to have the rear driveshaft lengthened by 100mm and have found a few sources for friction welding but am looking at a few others presently.
I am rebuilding a new wiring harness and simplifying the whole system as BMW harness is too complex for my needs. The Charging, ignition and lighting will be seperated into three distinct harnesses to make access easier and if ever needed the repair or replacement would be much simpler.
Engine wise I am using at the moment my r80gs engine and gearbox both have been modified and completely rebuilt the engine has all new components so is virtually a new engine;-
It has a lightened and balanced crank, Balanced con rods (balanced over entire length to each other, steel lined oil pump, 296 enduro camshaft with a bronze bushed bearing,1000cc piston upgrade (siebenrock), gas flowed and twin plugged cylinder heads,2 twin tower dyna coils, one piece rocker/valve gear, deep oil sump, nissan starter motor, K and N air filter, SGS high torque exhaust, Endurolast alternator and twin spark electronic ignition, heavy duty clutch. The gearbox has High top gear and lower first. The engine puts out about 65 bhp and has 73nm torque measured at the back wheel at 2000revs right through to 6000 revs so nice and flat. I may in the future source a 1000 motor and go to a 1070 but money blocks that route at the moment.
I will try to add a few pictures this week of each stage of the chassis build from start until its finished.
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adventure950 screwed with this post 12-07-2011 at 11:47 AM
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Old 07-19-2011, 07:13 AM   #2
Beater
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Old 07-19-2011, 07:28 AM   #3
Airhead Wrangler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adventure950 View Post
I have tried to re contact HPN several times by phone, letter and e mail. I have been met with no reply.
Don't even try to contact them via email. Calling them has always worked fine for me though. In fact, I just talked to Klaus this morning. Sometimes you have to let it ring for while though.
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R80ST Gets The HPN Treatment
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Current rides: HPN #834, '93 R100GSPD "red rocket", '73 R75/5 Toaster mongrel, '80 Ducati Pantah 500SL, '92 DR350, '67 Honda SS50, '80 Honda Chaly.
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:00 AM   #4
adventure950 OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airhead Wrangler View Post
Don't even try to contact them via email. Calling them has always worked fine for me though. In fact, I just talked to Klaus this morning. Sometimes you have to let it ring for while though.
I really left the phone ringing several times over a number of different days on different weeks, I tried between 5pm and 7pm German time still never got a reply. I e mailed Klaus direct and sent him a personal letter. Never had a reply. I had before cancelling the frame had a lot of contact with Klaus and bought numerous bits from him for the project so I am leaving it open to go back to him should there be a problem with this chassis development - but I do think HPN need to get it together with customer contacts it is and has always been a problem area.

When I had to cancel my frame being booked in last year it was a month before it was due, I had a spinal injury - did not know if i would ride again and had to give up my work anyway so i thought it a good reason not an excuse to suspend the build and cancel the frame mods at that time. But to be honest Its so hard to get contact and for the moment finacial reasons - I have now gone down a different route with this frame and will see how it works out - if for some reason I was not happy with the frame work then I will go back to HPN.

Both Colin and Rob (Chassis works) do not see HPN chassis work as anything beyond the realms of any good chassis workshop - but do accept HPN have done the testing, research and experience on this particular chassis. But the chassis strengthening is very much 1980's technology with a lot of experience thrown in. The Metal working - de stressing and re alignment are all within the remit of the workshop I am using.

Next time I am down there I will include a photo of a quad they are currently working on - not just a strengthening job but a complete build and design from base metal to the almost finished job now.

As for HPNs I have looked at a few and many have minor differences and have evolved over the years but there is a limit to what can be done with the gs chassis - and what would want to be done to it.

Here is one for discussion - Anyone see any reason why the workshop I am using could not meet or even exceed the HPN standard on the framework ?
I am well open to opinions on the matter.
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:21 AM   #5
Airhead Wrangler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adventure950 View Post
Here is one for discussion - Anyone see any reason why the workshop I am using could not meet or even exceed the HPN standard on the framework ?
I am well open to opinions on the matter.
As far as workmanship is involved, HPN's modifications are well within the capabilities of any experienced TIG welder. Stress relieving the chassis after welding is well within the capabilities of any good frame repair/fabrication shop. From what you say, it sounds like the guys you're dealing with know what they're doing and know how to build a frame. The only edge that HPN has is that their design has gone through several iterations over the year due to some trial and error. They have probably the largest body of airhead offroad test data of anyone in the world. While you don't have their engineering calcs that they did, you DO know what parts of the frame they modify and how, so it'd be easy to duplicate their work, a bit more difficult to get the frame straight again when you're finished, but still well within the realm of possibility. If you plan on changing their design though, just remember how much "testing" went into HPN's design and realize that you might not get it right the first time. HPN didn't.
__________________
R80ST Gets The HPN Treatment
Seattle to TDF on an airhead

Current rides: HPN #834, '93 R100GSPD "red rocket", '73 R75/5 Toaster mongrel, '80 Ducati Pantah 500SL, '92 DR350, '67 Honda SS50, '80 Honda Chaly.

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Old 07-19-2011, 09:34 AM   #6
adventure950 OP
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Location: Northumberland UK
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Thanks for that - very balanced and level headed comment - it goes along with my way of thinking very much. I too agree not to change the frame stress mods at all - the only minor changes will be to exhaust hangers some rack and fittings like lifting handles grab points just stuff to suit what luggage and stuff I have to carry etc.
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Old 07-19-2011, 10:10 AM   #7
bikerfish
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you must have pissed them off, like the soup nazi says, NO HPN FOR YOU!!!
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Old 07-19-2011, 10:37 AM   #8
adventure950 OP
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Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Northumberland UK
Oddometer: 507
Bikerfish - I think they are too busy to be pissed off by a single loss of a job - and from my previous dealing got to say Klaus is a very nice bloke if not a bit too busy for his own good.
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Old 07-19-2011, 03:51 PM   #9
gummikuh
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Hi!

Why did you call them between 5 and 6 pm??

Usually you get someone to talk to between 9 and12 am and from 1 to 4 pm.

No problems at all to call them.....



Have fun building your bike!!


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Old 07-19-2011, 03:57 PM   #10
bikerfish
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was just teasing. I was wondering about the time he called them as well. 5 to 7 pm german time? they are in the pub.
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Old 07-19-2011, 06:16 PM   #11
Airhead Wrangler
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Check this out for some inspiration. I can't say I would have reinforced the frame in the exact ways this guy did it, but the end result is pretty F-ing sweet.

http://munsty.smugmug.com/Motorcycle...57592743_nSavC
__________________
R80ST Gets The HPN Treatment
Seattle to TDF on an airhead

Current rides: HPN #834, '93 R100GSPD "red rocket", '73 R75/5 Toaster mongrel, '80 Ducati Pantah 500SL, '92 DR350, '67 Honda SS50, '80 Honda Chaly.
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Old 07-19-2011, 08:10 PM   #12
Steve G.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adventure950 View Post
I have for years fancied a HPN and did infact have my chassis booked in for a build at HPN - but due to an injury and loss of earnings had to cancel at the last moment.
Fast forward a year to now and back on track for the project - I have tried to re contact HPN several times by phone, letter and e mail. I have been met with no reply.
My new course of action is to build the HPN replica myself using contacts and local fabricators.
I am using not my own gs chassis but a spare 247 r80st chassis for the build -
The Chassis is now bead blasted and is now in the hands to be fabricated into a HPN replica for a tiny amount of the cost of the price charged by HPN (getting good mates rates on the job) by two good friends who run a chassis and fabricating workshop. Colin a genius in engineering and with years of knowledge of motorcycle building, chassis fabrication and a workshop with frame jigs, etc is behind the scenes on the build, whilst Rob is taking the project lead , A welder and fabricator, with experience in several environments from lorry fabrication and also military armoured vehicles (He is now a lecturer in welding at Newcastle college) and has also had till recently a fabrication workshop building racing quads along with various construction projects from kit cars to lorry conversions together they are undertaking the work of the Chassis.
The Chassis has been checked for straightness and is currently having the various plates made up before being checked for fit then tacked into place for the frame strengthening, the frame will then be reset in the jig before welding some minor deviation from the HPN concept will be included to customise the chassis totally for my own requirements. This way I can use neater and different components that suit my build rather than being stuck to a set format from HPN.
The sub frame, rack and swing arm again will be built up at Rob and Colins workshop. Once all built the frame, sub frame and swingarm will be de stressed and checked for trueness prior to going for powder coating.
However the basic build principals are the same - twin shock rear end with specific built wilbers piggy backed shocks, Complete original HPN white power front end -sourced from e bay germany for 600.00, needs a service and tidy up but otherwise fine. I am using HPN Tank and fairing as I already have these to hand. I need to have the rear driveshaft lengthened by 100mm and have found a few sources for friction welding but am looking at a few others presently.
I am rebuilding a new wiring harness and simplifying the whole system as BMW harness is too complex for my needs. The Charging, ignition and lighting will be seperated into three distinct harnesses to make access easier and if ever needed the repair or replacement would be much simpler.
Engine wise I am using at the moment my r80gs engine and gearbox both have been modified and completely rebuilt the engine has all new components so is virtually a new engine;-
It has a lightened and balanced crank, Balanced con rods (balanced over entire length to each other, steel lined oil pump, 296 enduro camshaft with a bronze bushed bearing,1000cc piston upgrade (siebenrock), gas flowed and twin plugged cylinder heads,2 twin tower dyna coils, one piece rocker/valve gear, deep oil sump, nissan starter motor, K and N air filter, SGS high torque exhaust, Endurolast alternator and twin spark electronic ignition, heavy duty clutch. The gearbox has High top gear and lower first. The engine puts out about 65 bhp and has 73nm torque measured at the back wheel at 2000revs right through to 6000 revs so nice and flat. I may in the future source a 1000 motor and go to a 1070 but money blocks that route at the moment.
I will try to add a few pictures this week of each stage of the chassis build from start until its finished.

I simply love this idea!!! The logistics, and to be honest the expense of sending over a donor bike have always scared me off.
I'm looking forward to reading more on this project.

Steve
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:11 PM   #13
Padmei
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Humppph - I'm boycotting this thread after I lost out on your shock

Glad to see you're going to document your rebuild & please start posting pics now. How does one de-stress a frame? take everything off it?
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:56 AM   #14
adventure950 OP
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Joined: Sep 2005
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The reason I always ring after 5 in German time is because Klaus always told me to do so this is when he is best caught after the days work and is in the office doing admin. He told me he very rarely can come to the phone during working hours as he is in the workshop and does not wish to stop work for a chat.

I will start posting photos from the weekend as I am not back down to the workshop till then - as for de stressing the frame - I really do not know that's the black art of chaasis builders area - but I think its to do with heating and cooling various sides and areas of the frame to allow the metal to relax itself to the corrected geometry on the jig after welding has caused some pull and push and changes in the metals - Rob says he will minimise the stresses by keeping the welds cool and short working one side then the other but there may be stresses and movement that needs correcting.
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Old 07-20-2011, 04:46 AM   #15
Rob Farmer
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Richie Moore in Northampton makes some lovely kit and carries out engineerng work http://www.moorespeed.co.uk/ including swinging arm extensions. he's really helpfull on the phone.

He can also up the performance of your engine as high as 105BHP at the back wheel if you have a mind to. is sidecar outfit recently had four wins and set a new track record, they are currently leading the championship. Nice when somebody puts their money where their mouth is?


Looking forward to seeing more of your project.
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