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Old 09-05-2012, 09:00 AM   #136
Disco Dean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Treadless View Post
Could you please explain why it would not be possible to replace the old sensor and plug in the updated sensor?
The ring gear has the abs and speed sensor markings machined into the ring gear - it cannot be replaced.

If you were to put in the newer ring gear - which should fit then you would need the new sensor plug - and it is a different size - so the FD would need to be machined.

However that would not help as the end electrical plug connection is different and would need to be modified to fit the existing one on the bike.

But - none of the above matters at all because there are a different number of ABS - speed sensor indents/markings on the ring gear so the signal would be wrong and the bike shows an abs error because the computer does not recognize that sequence/pattern.

At best it would not be able to properly use the ABS and you would get a wrong speed indication - believe I have gone over it many different ways.

Dean
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:30 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by farrell caesar View Post
...Dealer charges $1400 to rebuild with no warranty. Seems like they would give you 90 days at least if they had any confidence in their work....
Hmmm.... the guys in PA are providing a year warranty, tough for me to make a claim if it fails with my travels...
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Old 09-06-2012, 07:18 PM   #138
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I have not yet opened up a diff and am asking questions before buying a bunch of parts and ripping them all open and comparing. I have spent some time comparing various parts fiche.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco Dean View Post
The ring gear has the abs and speed sensor markings machined into the ring gear - it cannot be replaced.
Is this the case with all year models?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco Dean View Post
If you were to put in the newer ring gear - which should fit then you would need the new sensor plug - and it is a different size - so the FD would need to be machined.
Not a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco Dean View Post
However that would not help as the end electrical plug connection is different and would need to be modified to fit the existing one on the bike.
I figured as much and swapping plugs is doable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco Dean View Post
But - none of the above matters at all because there are a different number of ABS - speed sensor indents/markings on the ring gear so the signal would be wrong and the bike shows an abs error because the computer does not recognize that sequence/pattern.
Non ABS bike so not an issue.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco Dean View Post
you would get a wrong speed indication -
This = problem.


Thanks for your time & input. Over the years I have found that there is usually a way around factory super-sessions and at times not worth the effort. I am at this point not yet ready to throw in the towel.
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Old 09-06-2012, 10:09 PM   #139
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WOW - It's still going ....

Imagine my surprise when I visit the forum for the first time in MONTHS and my thread is still alive and kickin!!!

So I guess I owe an update...

I still have the bike....done another 6K since the FD replacement and all is still OK.

Remember, BMW replaced my 2010 FD with the 2011/2012 VENTED FD.....so far...I'm still rollin!

I am planning another AK trip for 2013 with a small group of ATL riders, so we'll see if it holds up!

Cheers,

Matt.
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:25 PM   #140
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I recently helped a guy out that had replaced an 06 FD with a later model 10 FD. The GS911 showed a fault code for "excessive rear wheel slippage". I'm guessing that a newer abs ring on the front wheel would correct that. Indicated MPH would still be off but front and rear wheel speeds would match.

Btw, any US dealer rebuild should carry a one year, unlimited mileage warranty good at any authorized dealer.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:00 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJS View Post
I recently helped a guy out that had replaced an 06 FD with a later model 10 FD. The GS911 showed a fault code for "excessive rear wheel slippage". I'm guessing that a newer abs ring on the front wheel would correct that. Indicated MPH would still be off but front and rear wheel speeds would match.

Btw, any US dealer rebuild should carry a one year, unlimited mileage warranty good at any authorized dealer.


Hey Mark, can you recall to what degree the speedo was off?

There are 2 ABS rings listed one is for pre 8/2006 and the other for all years after that date. So that might be the ticket for the ABS and if the speedo could be re-calibrated... just maybe.
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:06 AM   #142
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how do you tell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BearII View Post
{snip}
Of course, they were able to do the rebuild because I caught it right away, when you live on your bike you get to the point where you can tell the minute something is not right. I stopped immediately and luckily that saved the case.
{snip}
So how could you tell "something was failing"?
What are the symptoms - while riding and while doing a static check of the bike?
Thanks,
-ceej
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:33 PM   #143
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To tell the truth, I don't know how much the speedo was off or even if it was working. He was traveling through and had a flashing abs light. The warning light was due to low fluid in the servo. I fixed that for him and he did a short test ride to confirm the warning light stayed off. His speedo was obscured by a gps so he wasn't sure if it was working on the test ride.

It may be that a late model FD with a newer abs ring on the front wheel and the abs control unit would not see a difference in wheel speed. Someone else will have to test that out. I just removed my servo
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Old 09-07-2012, 02:07 PM   #144
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rebuild FD

Dealer in St.Louis does not warranty their $1400 rebuild for 1150GS.
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Old 09-07-2012, 02:10 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Treadless View Post
I have not yet opened up a diff and am asking questions before buying a bunch of parts and ripping them all open and comparing. I have spent some time comparing various parts fiche.



Is this the case with all year models?

(I believe there are now only three versions of the R1200GS FD starting at 2005) Don't know the complete dates but I know the first generation (mine) is good until August of 2006.)




Not a problem.



I figured as much and swapping plugs is doable.




Non ABS bike so not an issue.




This = problem.


Thanks for your time & input. Over the years I have found that there is usually a way around factory super-sessions and at times not worth the effort. I am at this point not yet ready to throw in the towel.
The only real problem - if you are handy at machining etc. and fabrication is the computer and the speed from the different ring grooves. For that matter you might be able to fit an older ring gear in but I would have that out and spec all surfaces to be sure - I have no idea if they changed that part other than the ring gear grooves - it might just slide into the newer housing and other updated parts but that is a much bigger challenge.
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Old 09-07-2012, 02:19 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Treadless View Post
Hey Mark, can you recall to what degree the speedo was off?

There are 2 ABS rings listed one is for pre 8/2006 and the other for all years after that date. So that might be the ticket for the ABS and if the speedo could be re-calibrated... just maybe.
There are two rings on the bike - front wheel and back - the issue is twofold from what I can tell.

1 - the difference between the front wheel and back wheel ring sensors is now changed and the computer calculations would show an error.

2 - If you could match the front the back somehow knowing what the calculations are - and the algorithm they must use - then you would still have a computer trying to figure out how come you are getting X amount of blips per rotation instead of Y amount... hence the perceived slippage.

Problem with recalibration is that the computer is using those things for many different usages.

- ie -
Brake bias front to rear - which is on the bike regardless of ABS or not
Speed sensing
Slippage from front to back
If ABS then ABS

And the programs for the computer are not that flexible to change and are based on a structured set of parameters for certain options - I had heard of a guy on here trying to build a program to manage all of that ala - GS911 but with infinite control.

You can go to your "supportive" dealer and get them to reprogram you bike to make it a non-ABS bike from an ABS bike but even that is difficult and needs BMW approval - for a bunch of reasons... so you have to convince them the comp was wiped and you have to relaunch blah blah blah
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Old 09-07-2012, 02:22 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by 1200gsceej View Post
So how could you tell "something was failing"?
What are the symptoms - while riding and while doing a static check of the bike?
Thanks,
-ceej
Movement at 9 and 3 and 12 and 6 of the rear wheel more than +- 1mm - while grabbing the rear wheel - measuring at the rim. (Main Bearing)
This could be just normal wear of the bearing - and not what I would say an FD failure - but normal wear.

The 1200FDs have the main bearing sealed and completely outside of the FD oil circuit - so when the mains fail they do not do any damage to the internals of the FD. Unless something catastrophic happens and breaks into the FD casing from the bearing.

Pinion shaft movement with FD swung down - should not be any noticeable movement
(Pinon Bearings - Angle bearings or needle bearings) This is what happened to mine - I felt movement and a vibration at speed. IF this happens then the bits of bearing can enter the FD and into the tooth contact and bam you are done.

Noise that changes with road speed and not gear speed

Feeling of grinding and vibration

Oil leaks from either side of FD

Bits of bearing or gear in you FD oil

That is it for me - any one or all might or might not be it - with the exception of the grinding and bits of metal... which is a pretty sure sign...
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Old 09-07-2012, 02:38 PM   #148
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Quote:
Problem with recalibration is that the computer is using those things for many different usages.

- ie -
Brake bias front to rear - which is on the bike regardless of ABS or not
Speed sensing
Slippage from front to back
If ABS then ABS
On servo bikes, the speed sensors are connected to the ABS servo unit.

The ABS/Servo unit does not bias the brakes. Front lever and rear pedal do that. Linked brakes are a hydro-mechanical function and do not require any speed signal.

Speed signal is used by the ABS to measure lock up (front to rear differential) and transmitted over the bus to the instrument cluster.

Slippage error is from consistent speed readings outside the programed differential allowance between front and rear. Error also occurs when using a 21" front wheel. It does not set the ABS warning light or disable the ABS function.

Only on ABS bikes. Non-ABS bikes pipe from the hand/pedal MC directly to the respective wheel. Non-ABS bikes do not have linked brakes. Non-ABS bikes have the rear wheel speed sensor connected to the chassis control unit which transmits the speed signal on the buss to the instrument cluster.
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Old 09-07-2012, 03:13 PM   #149
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In my case the indicator was a vibration/rubbing/knocking through the foot pegs about 50 miles before it failed. The problem for me was I was on I40 coming into Memphis, TN and the roads are horrible....so I put it down to a bad road seam every 20yrds or so....

I did stop to check the wheel and saw NO leak, NO free play at 9 or 3 on the center stand, nothing out of the ordinary....until it failed and failed hard!!! The rear wheel started to wobble, a horrible crunching noise of bearing loose in the case and every drop of fluid sprayed all over my rear wheel.
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Old 09-07-2012, 04:57 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco Dean View Post
There are two rings on the bike - front wheel and back - the issue is twofold from what I can tell.

1 - the difference between the front wheel and back wheel ring sensors is now changed and the computer calculations would show an error.

2 - If you could match the front the back somehow knowing what the calculations are - and the algorithm they must use - then you would still have a computer trying to figure out how come you are getting X amount of blips per rotation instead of Y amount... hence the perceived slippage.

My apologies, I was not clear about the rings. There are two listings for front rings. The date change of the front ring appears to coincide with the change of the ring gear aka crown wheel. So this would lead me to think that if the front ring is updated along with rear the ABS would not have an issue reading the input.

Problem with recalibration is that the computer is using those things for many different usages.

- ie -
Brake bias front to rear - which is on the bike regardless of ABS or not
Speed sensing
Slippage from front to back
If ABS then ABS

And the programs for the computer are not that flexible to change and are based on a structured set of parameters for certain options - I had heard of a guy on here trying to build a program to manage all of that ala - GS911 but with infinite control.

You can go to your "supportive" dealer and get them to reprogram you bike to make it a non-ABS bike from an ABS bike but even that is difficult and needs BMW approval - for a bunch of reasons... so you have to convince them the comp was wiped and you have to relaunch blah blah blah


MJS already cleared up a misconception about the "brake bias" statement.

A friend I ride with quite a bit recently had the ABS & servo removed from his bike by the local dealer. There was no issue reprogramming the computer and it cost IIRC about 1/3 of the cost of just the servo not including installation.



I thank all that are contributing here. With enough input there is bound to be an answer to help keep earlier bikes going with better, used newer parts and not have to mortgage the house to do it. It maybe time to start a dedicated thread about drive upgrading?!
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