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Old 08-26-2012, 03:12 PM   #121
Treadless
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Some Dude View Post
I don't think the 2010 FD is going to work with your ABS/wheel speed sensor on the 2005,......that's the real problem here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco Dean View Post
Absolutely right - It won't work at all.

They have updated the units (again) now and you can only buy the complete unit but you must by the unit for the bike not a 2010... send it back.


Could you please explain why it would not be possible to replace the old sensor and plug in the updated sensor?
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Old 08-26-2012, 03:24 PM   #122
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Talking Uh oh, NOW you've done it!

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Originally Posted by Englishmatt View Post
Here ya go...feast on this.

My bike is a 2010 GSA, my brothers is a 2009 GSA. July 2nd we left Atlanta, GA and ran up to Prudhoe bay.
At the start of the trip my bike had 13K, his bike had 8K.

After 11,500 miles, and in Memphis (400 miles from home)...BOTH Final Drives failed. I'm not talking about a blown seal....BOTH Final drive bearing failed on BOTH bikes within 100 miles of each other.

Result is that BOTH bikes are at the local BMW dealer awaiting diagnosis. Is it just me, or is that a little ODD????

Interesting note is that the dealer has only seen one other total FD failure on a late model GSA....and that guy went to ALASKA.

I'm not prepared to rip into BMW just yet....but I'm preparing myself to do just that. To have both bikes fail at the same time tells me there's something common to both units with this failure.

If I cannot take my "World Class", "Purpose Designed", "Adventure" bike to Alaska without fearing a trip ending breakdown...then I'd say BMW has a world of problems on a design that a.) Is not rocket science and b.) has been around for YEARS.

Now then, for all you ADV'ers that will respond with "Well, it's under warranty..." I agree, but think about what it means and just how critical this failure is for BOTH bikes at the same time. Think about the message it portrays, and just what happened to BOTH bikes to cause the failure?

If you've never done anything more than taken your GS/A on long touring rides, with occasional gravel road excursions, you'll not understand the beating these bikes took along the Alaska, Yukon and BC roads. You'll not understand how remote some of the places are in this country and just how unsettling a final drive weakness is when you are 400 miles from any town, not to mention cell phone coverage to even call for assistance.

That being said, BMW themselves promote the "sherman tank" nature of the GSA and offer lectures, seminars and event(s) to promote more adventure riding.

The most important thing right now is to understand "What caused the failure?". Then I need to know what BMW are going to do to get my confidence back in the brand...For starters I'd STOP the R&D on the new BOXER motor, it's excellent, reliable and simply works....they may want to shift focus on getting the f&%^&g drive train figured out!!!

As a former KTM 990 owner, I've taken crap over the past year about the final drives...and I've defended it everytime. Now with both bikes coming home on a trailer I look like a chump.

In our small group of GSA and RT riders (7 riders)....five (5) bikes (4 GS/A's and 1 RT) have had FD issues...

I'll update this post as I know more, so far the dealer (Blue Moon Cycles) are handling the situation as well as they could be expected to.

It was a sour note to end our month long adventure on the side of the interstate, with 50K in broken BMW motorcycles.

Matt.
Uh, I don't think you're supposed to say anything really negative about these bikes on this forum! From what I've seen, those that do get ridiculed and blamed for bringing the problem upon themselves.

ESPECIALLY when it involves the bullet-proof and ultra-dependable and durable FD's on these bikes.

So beware!!
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Old 08-26-2012, 03:38 PM   #123
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"Uh, I don't think you're supposed to say anything really negative about these bikes on this forum! From what I've seen, those that do get ridiculed and blamed for bringing the problem upon themselves.

ESPECIALLY when it involves the bullet-proof and ultra-dependable and durable FD's on these bikes.

So beware!! "

My friend just got back from an Alaskan trip with his 2008 BMW R1200GSA..........the bike was split in half for a balancer shaft seal leak two years ago. But wait....there's more---on his latest trip the final drive failed and was rebuilt (poorly at the Fairbanks dealer + a week's downtime), failed again completely in Whitehorse, Yukon (had a new driveshaft and final drive installed + week's downtime) at 37,000 miles. So, about $5000.00 in parts, labor, motels/food later all of the problems have been solved. He just traded in his '08 GSA for a new 2012 R1200GS Rallye.
I've read that the 2012 final drives have been "improved".
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Old 08-26-2012, 06:36 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Treadless View Post
Could you please explain why it would not be possible to replace the old sensor and plug in the updated sensor?
The 05 has a completely different ABS system from the late 06 and up bikes. The later system uses wider frequency sensor ring so putting a late model final drive on an early bike will completely confuse the ABS computer as well as the main computer as the speed signal is taken from the rear wheel.
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Old 08-26-2012, 10:00 PM   #125
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"Interesting note is that the dealer has only seen one other total FD failure on a late model GSA....and that guy went to ALASKA."

When I was deciding between the 2011 GSA or Supertenere, i asked a bmw dealer off the cuff have the final drive issues been resolved yet? He deadpan looks at me and says: what issues? I say, the failures that you can read about on any number of boards all over the internet.... he says he hasn't heard of a thing. What a load of bs. I went and bought the tenere the next week, and am delighted.
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Old 08-27-2012, 07:17 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Davi_ View Post
"Interesting note is that the dealer has only seen one other total FD failure on a late model GSA....and that guy went to ALASKA."

When I was deciding between the 2011 GSA or Supertenere, i asked a bmw dealer off the cuff have the final drive issues been resolved yet? He deadpan looks at me and says: what issues? I say, the failures that you can read about on any number of boards all over the internet.... he says he hasn't heard of a thing. What a load of bs. I went and bought the tenere the next week, and am delighted.
Going to AK and back I must have seen over 100 BMW GSAs and GSs, a bunch of Vstroms and some KLR650s. The Supertenere is too new to see many yet. If my FD goes I'll buy a new one and keep on going. Why waste time on the rebuild-fail step.

According to the internet you should be able to sit outside any BMW motorcycle dealership and watch shipping containers full of replacement final drives arriving weekly. You could go to the service departments and see puddles of oil under hundreds of GSs waiting for FD repairs. Reality, they fail but more guys are out riding their GS/GSAs than are waiting for FDs.

I bought a 2002 VStrom 1000 when they first came out. It took years before anyone at the dealerships knew what it was. "You have a what, who makes that?" I took it in for a 10,000 mile service and they tapped out my air filter and that was it because they had no parts to do the rest. You have to ride a BMW for a while to know you want one. I got my Harley only friend to ride and buy a 2007 GSA. He won't shut up about what a nice bike it is.

I am curious and a little concerned about FD failures but the GSA is still a great bike IMO.
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Old 08-27-2012, 06:20 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdcyclist View Post
The 05 has a completely different ABS system from the late 06 and up bikes. The later system uses wider frequency sensor ring so putting a late model final drive on an early bike will completely confuse the ABS computer as well as the main computer as the speed signal is taken from the rear wheel.
I did the same thing. Scored a cheap slightly used FD from a 2009 GS as a spare for my 05. Seems like the newer non servo bikes use a different "sensor wheel" inside the FD. I have not tried to fit the later version to my bike. I expect it to fit and work ok mechanically but with a warning and no ABS.
I am still keeping it. Plan to use it on the bike temporarily if I need to rebuild the original FD.
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Old 08-27-2012, 06:27 PM   #128
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I've got ~200k miles between both GSs (1150 & 1100) with only one seal replacement required.

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Old 08-27-2012, 07:54 PM   #129
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I am looking a getting an 05 1200gs this weekend . Now I an rethinking this, is the finel drive a big problem on these bikes.

Some guys seem to get 100,000 miles others 20.000 some 2 or 3 FD before 50,000 something is very wrong here .

1. not changing the oil

2. the wrong oil

3. bad oil seal / no oil

4. dirt or water in the FD from the vent ( some people do more off road than others )

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Old 08-27-2012, 08:07 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by winginit View Post
I am looking a getting an 05 1200gs this weekend . Now I an rethinking this, is the finel drive a big problem on these bikes.
Luck of the draw. Some have issues. Most don't. Do your homework, do your checks (as far as you can), and check the bike's history (if you can). Other than that, it's pot-luck.

I've had two low km R1150 bikes. FD on one was great for 158,000 kms and is still good. FD on the other failed at 55,000 kms. Same applies to the early R1200 bikes. Having one with a FD drain point would probably be a good choice if I was hunting for one. You 'might' get some warning of impending disaster.

What's that prove? Absolutely nothing.
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Old 08-27-2012, 08:24 PM   #131
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Final Drive issues

The F800GS axle bearings also had failures, you can read about it next door Wheel Bearing Failure I believe.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=499504
There were several units that failed at speed, was not pretty a small percentage but similar to FD failures as it involved the bearings. A shop in Denver discovered the cutout for the bearing was slightly undersized, Woodys Wheel Works.
Anyways I stopped there with my 800 GS last summer removed the wheels had them check the bearings.
The rear 3 bearings had a smig of grease on one side the other side had no grease, the front was the same.
The question I wonder is the 1200GS the same bearing with lack of grease.
Maybe they figured that out.
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:44 PM   #132
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Fd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Japanviking View Post
I did the same thing. Scored a cheap slightly used FD from a 2009 GS as a spare for my 05. Seems like the newer non servo bikes use a different "sensor wheel" inside the FD. I have not tried to fit the later version to my bike. I expect it to fit and work ok mechanically but with a warning and no ABS.
I am still keeping it. Plan to use it on the bike temporarily if I need to rebuild the original FD.
Been there, done that. I have 2005 GS and I did the same thing, bought FD from 2007 HP2. According to part numbers, they are similar but sensor wheels inside FD are different. I have talked about this with representatives from dealership, and they said that mechanically they will work, but sensor wheel from newer FD will cause an error and ABS wont work. Anyway I have found a mechanic who managed to change these sensor wheels inside of FD and everything seems to be fine now. Except the FD color, as you know in HP2 FD it is a bit grey, not silver as on GS models, but I don`t care :)
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:52 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winginit View Post
I am looking a getting an 05 1200gs this weekend . Now I an rethinking this, is the finel drive a big problem on these bikes.

Some guys seem to get 100,000 miles others 20.000 some 2 or 3 FD before 50,000 something is very wrong here .

1. not changing the oil

2. the wrong oil

3. bad oil seal / no oil

4. dirt or water in the FD from the vent ( some people do more off road than others )
Yep, I have 2005 GS and I have experience with problem Nr. 3 and Nr. 4 :)
50 000km so far... bought it almost new.
But I still think this was partly my fault which ended up with FD problems... anyway, now everything works fine.. so far. I`m an optimist :)
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Old 08-29-2012, 03:02 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
Kinda curious,5 3000.00+ final drives and the last one you had to buy...............

So you buy another GS? All the bikes on the market and you have to have the one most likely to leave you walking along the road? Once a beemerophile always a beemerophile I guess.

First of all - the FD is rebuildable. Second, where the heck are you getting $3k???? Had to have mine built at 55,000 miles - that was due to a dealer putting in the wrong fluid up in Newfoundland, the only time I let a dealer touch my FD - can you say &%$^#@(*$&@!!!!

The dealer that rebuilt the FD said the FD's were notoriously mis-shimmed and they had rebuilt many and properly shimmed them never having another failure. They shimmed mine "correctly," I've put another 10k on her with no problems but hey who knows. By the way, the rebuild cost me $950 - included replacing all bearings and seals inside. The fellow who did it was a master BMW tech at Trans Am Cycle in Lititz, PA - nice group of guys there, went out of there way to get me on the road again as I was traveling through when it happened. Of course, they were able to do the rebuild because I caught it right away, when you live on your bike you get to the point where you can tell the minute something is not right. I stopped immediately and luckily that saved the case. BTW - I can't imagine why it took them 2 weeks to get the parts for the OP, got mine overnighted no problem??!!

Will I buy another one - yep, in a heartbeat! I've been riding over 40 years and I've owned just about every brand of bike made (except a HD) and can't imagine leaving BMW - the difference is amazing. Yep, hate the FD issue and really thought I had avoided it - until that dealer screwed me with the wrong fluid. I replaced the fluid religously at 12k after the first drain and fill at 6k.

As far as the cost, my ex put far more than that into her F650GS twin in chains and sprockets in that time - do I hate the fact you can't predict an FD failure - yep, at least with chain and sprockets you can plan your downtime. By hey, like Ted Simon I have found that even these inconveniences have led me to meeting fantastic people and having great experiences I probably would have missed otherwise! The tow truck driver and I had a great time together, even going out for drinks after we dropped off the bike and one of the boys at the shop made sure we got in trouble together with the local talent another night - what's not to love!
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:18 PM   #135
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Fd

I just rebuilt 2- 1150gs FD. One seems ok. The other one..the wheel did not spin free enough. Took it apart and cut back a few thou on the shims. Wheel spins free now. I used the dial and the solder method. I'm not sure there is a method that is 100% I used .o60 solder to gauge shims. Next time i will try .120 solder. It may preload brgs. better to determine proper shim. Dealer charges $1400 to rebuild with no warranty. Seems like they would give you 90 days at least if they had any confidence in their work. It's not a hard job, but getting it right may be. I thought of getting the tapered contact brgs. $750 for 2 ? Not sure I am going to keep the bike that long.
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