ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Orange Crush
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-25-2008, 03:38 AM   #1
mookymoo OP
Mookish Mook
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Either UK or Australia ...
Oddometer: 4,371
Forks feel 'sticky'. Whats an acceptable upper/lower sag# discrepancy?

My forks feel sticky - seems to require a large change in weight to start them moving (once they are moving, its fine).

If I measure sag by pushing down and letting the forks rise - then lifting up and letting them fall - what is an acceptable difference between those two numbers on a 2005 950 Adv S with .59 (950SE) springs ?
mookymoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2008, 09:56 AM   #2
cpmodem
Orange Caveman
 
cpmodem's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: masa yee yah tee 59° 14' 9" N / 135° 26' 42" W
Oddometer: 7,103
Quote:
Originally Posted by mookymoo
My forks feel sticky - seems to require a large change in weight to start them moving (once they are moving, its fine).

If I measure sag by pushing down and letting the forks rise - then lifting up and letting them fall - what is an acceptable difference between those two numbers on a 2005 950 Adv S with .59 (950SE) springs ?
Generally, forks in good condition have less than 15mm difference. Forks with more than 40mm difference need to be inspected carefully and rebuilt if necessary. Make sure the fork tubes and axle are aligned properly and the triple clamps aren't too tight.
__________________

-cp

DISCLAIMER: All observations made in this post are mine and based solely on my own anecdotal experiences, and may contain large doses of facetiousness. YMMV, of course. You are "on your own", and I take no responsibility if someone tries anything in this post and gets into trouble with the law, damages their person or property, or goes blind. Take everything you read or hear "anywhere" butt especially on the Web with a large dose of salt.


cpmodem screwed with this post 07-25-2008 at 10:10 AM
cpmodem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2008, 12:44 PM   #3
Hair
Outside the boxer
 
Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Northern New Mexico
Oddometer: 13,410
There is a procedure out there that tells how to aline the forks and how to install the front tire.

Long story short one of the main steps is to tighten the low Left side axle clamp bolts. Then push the front up and down a few times. The right should be alowed to float and find a non binding spot. After that it done and the forks work smoothly. Then tighten the right side bolts.
__________________
My problem with Siri is that she is always on the phone.
Hair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2008, 12:45 PM   #4
dougn
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Oddometer: 129
yeah mine are smooth as butter. it's common for the forks to bind due to misalignment at the axle. loosining the axle and bouncing the front end doen't work too well for aligning.
dougn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2008, 01:03 PM   #5
cpmodem
Orange Caveman
 
cpmodem's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: masa yee yah tee 59° 14' 9" N / 135° 26' 42" W
Oddometer: 7,103
This proceedure by Bruce Triplett may be what Hair is refering to in his post above. Maybe not, butt at anyrate it has always worked well on my Ninefiddy (and other dirtbikes):

This next step is VERY IMPORTANT. This is the PROPER WAY to install forks. ATTENTION – if improperly installed, the forks can’t work to their full potential. First install the left fork (left is determined as if you were sitting on the bike) into the triple clamps. (A little WD 40 sprayed on the fork tubes will make them slide in easier.) The measurement you took before you removed the forks will allow you to reinstall the left fork at the proper height. VERY IMPORTANT – Torque the pinch bolts to factory specs. Next, install the right fork in the triple clamp at approximately the same height as the left fork and LIGHTLY tighten ONLY ONE of the pinch bolts. This next step is CRITICAL –install the axle into the forks, grab the axle between the left and right fork, and begin rotating the axle. As you rotate the axle, loosen the pinch bolt on the right fork and move the right fork up and down until you locate the place where the axle turns most freely. Now, at this position, torque the pinch bolts to factory specs. Install the wheel and brakes, and tighten the axle and/or axle nut. Torque the axle pinch bolts on the LEFT FORK ONLY. Now, you need to work the forks up and down. The best way is to tie the cycle down in/on your trailer, or ride the cycle SLOWLY up and down the driveway, and pump the front brake level several times, making the forks move deep into the travel. Now you can TORQUE the RIGHT axle pinch bolts.

The full article can be found in the HOW at:
http://www.ktm950.info/how/suspensio...ion_setup.html
(Caution may be too much info for many non-mechs to absorb)
__________________

-cp

DISCLAIMER: All observations made in this post are mine and based solely on my own anecdotal experiences, and may contain large doses of facetiousness. YMMV, of course. You are "on your own", and I take no responsibility if someone tries anything in this post and gets into trouble with the law, damages their person or property, or goes blind. Take everything you read or hear "anywhere" butt especially on the Web with a large dose of salt.

cpmodem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2008, 02:16 PM   #6
mookymoo OP
Mookish Mook
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Either UK or Australia ...
Oddometer: 4,371
Thanks guys.

I followed that procedure pretty closely - and ensured the bottom triples were not too tight.

I might just re-do it - to be sure....

I havent measured mine yet - but it feels like more than 15mm - I doubt its as much as 40 though...
mookymoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2008, 09:31 PM   #7
David37
Gnarly Adventurer
 
David37's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: SLO County
Oddometer: 381
How often do you bleed the air out of your forks? The trapped air can make your forks seem stiff/harsh.
David37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2008, 02:09 AM   #8
mookymoo OP
Mookish Mook
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Either UK or Australia ...
Oddometer: 4,371
Quote:
Originally Posted by David37
How often do you bleed the air out of your forks? The trapped air can make your forks seem stiff/harsh.
Frequently.

They're not stiff - just sticky.
mookymoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2008, 09:47 PM   #9
eaglej
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Kasson, MN
Oddometer: 302
My LC4 has felt this way when my lower triple clamp was too tight. I run it at a bit looser torque than spec, and the action is much better now.

My Bandit felt really harsh on small stuff (expansion jts etc) and a fluid change put it right. I subscribe to changing fork oil every season now.

J
__________________
"You plant potatoes, you get potatoes."
eaglej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2009, 04:47 PM   #10
mookymoo OP
Mookish Mook
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Either UK or Australia ...
Oddometer: 4,371
An Update:

Had the same issue - even worse on a newly-serviced set of forks.
They had new (NOK/WP) seals too.

Issue has been narrowed down to the NOK/WP Seals.
Even though they are new - and run in with a thousand+ miles on them (and some rough offroading in that too) they are sticky.

Ive heard of a couple of suspension shops using Kayaba seals in preference to the WP ones.

Ive also read of ppl recommending Synergy seals (but that was moreso because they dont leak like the old WP single-spring ones did).

Anyone else had this same experience?
Anyone have any feedback on Kayaba seals?
mookymoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2009, 11:08 AM   #11
mookymoo OP
Mookish Mook
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Either UK or Australia ...
Oddometer: 4,371
Quote:
Originally Posted by mookymoo
Anyone else had this same experience?
Anyone have any feedback on Kayaba seals?
we need a smilie for tumbleweed .....
mookymoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2009, 06:33 PM   #12
mookymoo OP
Mookish Mook
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Either UK or Australia ...
Oddometer: 4,371
Holy jebus effing christ on a pogo stick!

On a completely unrelated recommendation from James, I filled behind the dust covers with Lithium grease.... to keep the water and crap out.

Took it for a run to fill the bike up with fuel....

NOW, I have some plush suspension
The difference is striking - feels like I am on a hovercraft.

The lithium grease must be keeping the seal lubricated - stopping it from sticking. Not sure how long thats going to last - my 5-min run to get some fuel turned into an hour - and I think already some of the effect is fading..

When I get back from Portugal, these seals are going in the bin.

Question is, what do I replace them with?
mookymoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 02:45 PM   #13
Stobie
Mr. Motivated
 
Stobie's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Stanley, NC
Oddometer: 1,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by mookymoo

Question is, what do I replace them with?
Synergy seals reduced stiction on my former 640Adv forks by quite a lot. They pull a little oil, especially when new, and they tend to pass more air in the other direction, so you need to bleed the air off a little more often. They are a single-lip seal instead of a double-lipped quad seal like most fork seals.

Being single-lipped, they will also allow more dirt to pass into your fork through the seal, but that dirt would otherwise be getting stuck between the two lips of a conventional seal, and causing leaks.

I won't hesitate to use them when my SE needs seals.
__________________
Stobie


Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them.

-Albert Einstein
Stobie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 03:27 PM   #14
mookymoo OP
Mookish Mook
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Either UK or Australia ...
Oddometer: 4,371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stobie
Synergy seals reduced stiction on my former 640Adv forks by quite a lot. They pull a little oil, especially when new, and they tend to pass more air in the other direction, so you need to bleed the air off a little more often. They are a single-lip seal instead of a double-lipped quad seal like most fork seals.

Being single-lipped, they will also allow more dirt to pass into your fork through the seal, but that dirt would otherwise be getting stuck between the two lips of a conventional seal, and causing leaks.

I won't hesitate to use them when my SE needs seals.
I dunno if we are talking about the same thing - but from reading their website, their seals are double-lipped now ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synergy.com
Exciting news for 2008

Synergy Seals has designed a new “Rigid” seal. This seal is a mirror image seal with no orientation for assembly. It no longer requires the Pre-Wiper. It is a true double lip seal. Double lip meaning: one lip is the oil seal and the other lip is the wiper seal. The lips are the same design. What is “Original” about our seal is that it can be assembled in any two directions….this equals less confusion during assembly

Synergy Seals will only release the most advanced design to the public once it has been tested and proven. These NEW “Dual lip” seals will be the longest lasting, most durable seals ever made available to the motorcycle industry!
mookymoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 05:34 PM   #15
Stobie
Mr. Motivated
 
Stobie's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Stanley, NC
Oddometer: 1,853
I'm behind the times, then. The ones I've used in the past were a single seal. I have no experience with the newer design.
__________________
Stobie


Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them.

-Albert Einstein
Stobie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 07:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014