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Old 08-17-2005, 02:52 PM   #16
Velocibiker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stobie
I'm torn.

There's no doubt that the springs on my 640 Adv are too soft for my 215 or so pounds.

Fork springs? Shock spring? All?


How, may I ask did you come to know this?
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Old 08-17-2005, 02:54 PM   #17
Buckster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocibiker
Fork springs? Shock spring? All?


How, may I ask did you come to know this?
The bike is sprung for a 165lb rider.
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Old 08-17-2005, 03:10 PM   #18
Jeff620RXC
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If your suspension is too stiff will it effect the turning characterisics on dirt?
Thanks
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Old 08-18-2005, 06:00 AM   #19
Stobie OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocibiker
Fork springs? Shock spring? All?


How, may I ask did you come to know this?
What Buckster said.

Plus, like GP, I could bottom the front on the brakes. And I couldn't get good sag numbers.

I ended up with .50 kg/mm springs up front and a 8.0 kg/mm spring on the back. Sag numbers are where they should be.

Since I'm a cheap-ass, I decided to revalve the front fork myself, using a kit from these toads. Since they apparently know nothing about the version of the WP fork used on the LC4's, they didn't send me all the shims I needed, and repeated emails and phone calls got no response from them. Service after the sale was non-existent.

Anyway, I decided to try a modified version of their recommended shim stack, using the shims I had, with less than stellar results. The front end is still choppy over little stuff, but handles big bumps extremely well. I didn't have the shims needed to soften it up significantly. Now, my choices are to buy the necessary shims from a third party and revalve, hoping the stack specs I have are good, or punt and send them off to a pro. Still .

The upside is that I learned a lot about my forks. The mechanics of revalving a fork are quite simple. The trick is knowing what shim stacks to use. I could probably change the stacks in my base valves in about an hour. Getting in to change the midvalve and rebound stacks would require complete disassembly, and would probably be a good rainy afternoon w/ a sixpack project. The Fabtech kit only changes the base valve stack, and I don't have midvalve and rebound stacks for this bike, so I'm leaning toward sending the forks off. The suspension shops are making money off their knowledge, not their labor or materials.

On the back, I just changed the spring and adjusted the clickers, and I'm satisfied. Gary Emig, and a guy at Factory Connection (Aaron?, Adam?) both told me that although the forks need help, the rear shock on the LC4's does not need to be revalved. My experience supports this.
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Old 08-18-2005, 08:35 AM   #20
Velocibiker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stobie
What Buckster said.

Plus, like GP, I could bottom the front on the brakes. And I couldn't get good sag numbers.

I was just worried that it was simply bad settings on your part. Too many people simply don't set the front and back correctly and blame the bike on poor performance. Many times, it's simply a lack of proper set-up and maintenance.

After I rode a friend of mines street bike (it rode like crap), I asked what his suspension settings were and when was the last time he serviced the shock & forks. The "deer in the headlights" look was all I needed to know .

Anyway, glad you got it where you like it!!
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Old 08-18-2005, 10:14 AM   #21
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I too did the .50 forks and 8.0 shock with re-valving by Dicks in Roseville. It totally changed the bike. I can still bottom the front end on drop-off's but only once in a while when I am being sloppy. and it isn't that hard of a hit.


ps -I weigh 215#



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Old 08-18-2005, 09:10 PM   #22
ram1000
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I weigh 220 plus gear. I had my springs changed to the recommended rate by Race tech. I think 47 on the front. They didn't make a rear spring so I used an Adventurer spring on my dualsport. I can still bottom the suspension, but for my average riding I would not want things any stiffer. I would guess that revalving would allow a stiffer spring while keeping the initial movement soft, but for trail riding I just don't need anything better, and for whoops and such I can adjust the compression up a click and go as fast as I need to go. The spring changes were the best money I ever put into a bike. If my LC4 were newer I would spend the money for revalving just to see how it works.
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Old 08-19-2005, 07:56 AM   #23
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Quote:
On the back, I just changed the spring and adjusted the clickers, and I'm satisfied. Gary Emig, and a guy at Factory Connection (Aaron?, Adam?) both told me that although the forks need help, the rear shock on the LC4's does not need to be revalved. My experience supports this.
FWIW, my experience does not support that statement with regards to the Adventure models. I weigh 195 w/o gear and have upgraded the springs on my 00 640 Adventure to .47s in the front and a 7.6 in the rear. The forks are almost reasonable, the shock with correct sag and compression damping maxed out, bottoms on any bump bigger than say a tennis ball. I upgraded the springs when the bike had 1000 miles on the odo.

A buddy of mine bought an 01 Adventure with 150 miles on it. He upgraded to .50 and 8.0 springs and it bottoms even worse than mine in the rear. From my experience the stock valving is only suitable for pavement or smooth dirt roads.

I weighed my Adventure front and rear and compared it to an LC4 of the same vintage. The rear wheel weight is the same on the rear for both bikes. All I can say is if the valving is better on the regular LC4 shocks compared to the Adventures I'm very disappointed. A revalve is in order.
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Old 08-19-2005, 08:12 AM   #24
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Suspension in WA?

It's clear that my 220# w/o gear is squashing the Adventure I just got. It's got aobut 12k on the odo which might be high for the rear shock anyway if ridden hard. I dunno I'm new to these things but knowing nothing about how these things are supposed to ride and feel I have no base except that compared to the 950 I had this thing feels squashed.

Soooo is there a trusted northwest suspension shop to have it checked out and/or upgraded? I'm surely not taking it to the jokers at the local shops up here.

Maybe even Vancoover? Loaded?

cheers
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Old 08-19-2005, 08:30 AM   #25
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Re-sprung and re-valved here I'm 225lbs and ride hard. It still bottoms out on big hits, but what do you expect? With an almost full tank it's a 400lb motorcycle. Something has to give!
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Old 08-19-2005, 09:30 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoMike
Re-sprung and re-valved here I'm 225lbs and ride hard. It still bottoms out on big hits, but what do you expect? With an almost full tank it's a 400lb motorcycle. Something has to give!
Never bottom out on my 2000 LC4E, but then I only weigh 150lbs...for me the stockers seem correct (which would suggest that of you weigh 170+ they will not be correct...).
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Old 08-19-2005, 02:57 PM   #27
dezracer
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Interesting thread.I just ordered new springs based on the recent article in dirt bike mag in which they stated the valving (on the 05) is fine but you need to up the springs.I will assume for now that the valving has not been changed over the years but i dont know.

My 01 shock spring says 66-260 on it.I was told by the KTM shop that a 70 is the stiffest spring white power makes??? Does that mean 7.0 or how does whats on my shock spring relate to the 7.0 or 8.0 that you guys are talking about?

The front seem simpler and I think I went with .47s.Does anyone know what the stock 3s are? Thanks in advance.

By the way any white power stock fork i have experienced sucks on low speed small bumps but does well on the hi-speed hits and rolers. JMO.
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Old 08-19-2005, 03:12 PM   #28
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Quote:
My 01 shock spring says 66-260 on it.I was told by the KTM shop that a 70 is the stiffest spring white power makes??? Does that mean 7.0 or how does whats on my shock spring relate to the 7.0 or 8.0 that you guys are talking about?
66-260 is a 6.6 kg spring thats 260mm long uncompressed. The 70 is a 7.0 kg spring. I bought a White Power 7.6 kg so either your dealer is incorrect or I got a left over discontinued spring. Not sure what brand my buddies 8.0 is, but he got his from Factory Connection.
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Old 08-19-2005, 04:06 PM   #29
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The '05 640 Adventure fork is a completely different unit - in fact the same one as on the 950. I suspect that the valving is probably the same and only the spring rates differed. I've not ridden one of the '05's, so that's pure speculation.

On the earlier 640's with the 43mm WP, the damping range afforded by the adjusters is very light for any kind of offroading, particularly when combined with heavier springs.

The rear end is much better than the front end, but IMHO, the damping is still too light for any serious offroading if you weigh anything north of 200lbs.

It all really depends on how the rider rides and what he expects from the bike. If you're happy with the way it works for you, leave it be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dezracer
Interesting thread.I just ordered new springs based on the recent article in dirt bike mag in which they stated the valving (on the 05) is fine but you need to up the springs.I will assume for now that the valving has not been changed over the years but i dont know.
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Old 08-19-2005, 07:49 PM   #30
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I would like to chime in here. If you have the rear shock worked on get the reservoir replaced with a bladder unit. Also I owned a 2001 adventure, a 2003 450 exc and now have a 2005 adventure and 250 exc. In my opinion the 2001 valving was pretty good but the springs too soft. Most every one I talk to that owns or has owned a 2003 says that the valving sucks for all these models. There is a hit that I noticed on the small stuff that was just real harsh. I rebuilt my 03 forks and rear shock myself with race tech kits and although I asked for intermediate valving it was too harsh for me. I spent a grand on new springs front and rear, the race tech kits, bladder, seals and other stuff and still my 05 is the best so far. How ever I am riding both 05s with the compression and rebound turned almost down all the way. I weigh in at over 220 and ride both bikes pretty hard but when it comes to getting up on Monday having a softer set up is good. I have not noticed my front ends on either bike bottoming out and I have hit things hard enough to bend the rims on the 640 (that may not be that hard). I am going to replace the stock piston on the rear shock reservoir with a bladder and then replace both the front and back fluids with lighter oil. If you have an 03 I would recommend that you just have some one good rebuild them. From my experience it easy to get them valved too harsh.

When I looked at the valving on both the front end and rear shock it looked to me like either opening or closing the adjustment towards the max was not a good idea. It looks like this changes the valving in a linear way where the shim stacks do it progressively depending on how you set it up. My 2 cents.

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