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Old 12-22-2012, 04:02 PM   #6646
Gros Buck
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Biped, Please don't confuse moto vids w/ wanna-be shoot-em-up vids.....not everybody is interested in guys shooting cardboard
Particularly when cardboards don't shoot back

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Old 12-23-2012, 09:15 AM   #6647
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690 Enduro with Rally Cam

We have been doing a bit of pre-christmas KTM 690 investigations with Beaney to see if we can measure the inlet & exhaust valve lifts in relation to the crank rotation.
This was a bit tricky,but once we worked out the right equipment,we soon had the data we needed,it was a big surprise with the 690 Rally camshaft fitted as to how big the overlap was between the inlet & exhaust at TDC.
We are trying to use this info to come up with a replacement piston for the 654 & 690 motors,but with higher compression,mainly for the rally & SMC guys.But we could also make a straight OEM replacement,with the standard compression,but with a much higher quality piston.
Fortunately,we are 20 minutes away from Cosworth,the Formula 1 company,and are in discussion with them over making a small batch of pistons from billet,with varying compression ratios.
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:10 AM   #6648
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My 690R 2009 is getting long on the tooth so to speak with 25K miles. I would love to do a one stop shop to bring my bike up to or over a full 690 and have an option to throw a better cam in there at the same time. Weather that cam is for better top end or bottom mid should be an option. Dirt guys don't always need more top end but would welcome more power overall. A cylinder exchange or boring program would be required to make sure the cylinder is up to the same new spec as the new improved piston. Keep up the good work, let me know how it goes.


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Old 12-23-2012, 12:17 PM   #6649
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scamsThere are a couple of company making big bore kits
From 690 to 800cc hi comp piston and cams and making 89hp .things tend to get pricy but a hi comp piston would make a nice improvement.
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Old 12-23-2012, 01:24 PM   #6650
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Merry Christmas 690 owners!
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Old 12-23-2012, 01:26 PM   #6651
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Merry Christmas 690 owners!
What he said!


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Old 12-23-2012, 02:42 PM   #6652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktmmitch View Post
We have been doing a bit of pre-christmas KTM 690 investigations with Beaney to see if we can measure the inlet & exhaust valve lifts in relation to the crank rotation.
This was a bit tricky,but once we worked out the right equipment,we soon had the data we needed,it was a big surprise with the 690 Rally camshaft fitted as to how big the overlap was between the inlet & exhaust at TDC.
We are trying to use this info to come up with a replacement piston for the 654 & 690 motors,but with higher compression,mainly for the rally & SMC guys.But we could also make a straight OEM replacement,with the standard compression,but with a much higher quality piston.
Fortunately,we are 20 minutes away from Cosworth,the Formula 1 company,and are in discussion with them over making a small batch of pistons from billet,with varying compression ratios.
Sighhhhhhh, you couldn't have done this 3 months ago?
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Old 12-23-2012, 02:55 PM   #6653
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Sweet. Sand angels.

RE: high-end vs. low-end.... the power delivery can be shifted higher & lower in the rev range by changing cam timing. The breadth of the "powerband" can be changed by altering overlap, but that's really not easy on single cam motors!
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Old 12-23-2012, 03:17 PM   #6654
Mudguts
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The rally cam produces 6+hp all in the hi rev range ,but you lose a lot of lo and mid power most of us would want more mid range as that we're we ride in the rev range , but having a 728cc monster would be a lot of fun in the outback here in Aus (as long as you have the fuel range) .


Mitch a lot of the work you are doing has already been done , Or are you looking for some thing different ?
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:07 PM   #6655
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Originally Posted by Mudguts View Post
The rally cam produces 6+hp all in the hi rev range ,but you lose a lot of lo and mid power most of us would want more mid range as that we're we ride in the rev range , but having a 728cc monster would be a lot of fun in the outback here in Aus (as long as you have the fuel range) .


Mitch a lot of the work you are doing has already been done , Or are you looking for some thing different ?
Will the starter spin a KTM monster motor. A friend built MZ supersingles road race motors from the 660 base motor. The largest was a 760, but no starter would spin it. Had to use a roller starter.
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:08 PM   #6656
Mudguts
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The auto decomp should take care of that , there is a 800cc big bore kit for those who love power
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:15 AM   #6657
ktmmitch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudguts View Post
The rally cam produces 6+hp all in the hi rev range ,but you lose a lot of lo and mid power most of us would want more mid range as that we're we ride in the rev range , but having a 728cc monster would be a lot of fun in the outback here in Aus (as long as you have the fuel range) .


Mitch a lot of the work you are doing has already been done , Or are you looking for some thing different ?
Yes we are.we are looking for a high-quality replacement piston assembly for the OEM unit,now the bikes are getting older and people are looking to rebuild,but at an affordable price to riders.We have 3 motors in bits at the moment,2 654cc enduro & a 690 Rally,and have been comparing cranks,rods etc.
By ordering a batch from Cosworth we can do a straight replacement for the OEM,stock compression,and then do others with higher comp for racers & SMC guys.
The good thing is that all the 654cc & 690cc motors,and 690 rally,can use the same design of piston,which helps our costs,as the minimum order batch is 48 pistons.
But the main reason we were looking at the piston manufacture was to allow us to alter the stroke,and if you do that then you need to re-design the crown to get the correct compression ration,unless you want to re-profile the head,which we did not want to do.
We were using the rally cam measurements as a "worse case scenario",so that we can allow for valve pockets in the piston crown to suit both cams,stock & rally.
Pistons can also be specced with different coatings,from their standard anti-scuff(green) on the front and rear skirts up to a full DLC coating(formula 1 tech) which is all over and can double the cost of the piston,but was used in this years Speedway World Champ's 500cc motor,and showed no percievable wear after a full season on the shale tracks,and these are bikes with no cooling,or rev-limiters.(i was told they hit 13,000rpm on the start line!!!!)

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Old 12-24-2012, 07:31 AM   #6658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktmmitch View Post
Yes we are.we are looking for a high-quality replacement piston assembly for the OEM unit,now the bikes are getting older and people are looking to rebuild,but at an affordable price to riders.We have 3 motors in bits at the moment,2 654cc enduro & a 690 Rally,and have been comparing cranks,rods etc.
By ordering a batch from Cosworth we can do a straight replacement for the OEM,stock compression,and then do others with higher comp for racers & SMC guys.
The good thing is that all the 654cc & 690cc motors,and 690 rally,can use the same design of piston,which helps our costs,as the minimum order batch is 48 pistons.
But the main reason we were looking at the piston manufacture was to allow us to alter the stroke,and if you do that then you need to re-design the crown to get the correct compression ration,unless you want to re-profile the head,which we did not want to do.
We were using the rally cam measurements as a "worse case scenario",so that we can allow for valve pockets in the piston crown to suit both cams,stock & rally.
Pistons can also be specced with different coatings,from their standard anti-scuff(green) on the front and rear skirts up to a full DLC coating(formula 1 tech) which is all over and can double the cost of the piston,but was used in this years Speedway World Champ's 500cc motor,and showed no percievable wear after a full season on the shale tracks,and these are bikes with no cooling,or rev-limiters.(i was told they hit 13,000rpm on the start line!!!!)



Just finished getting all the top end stuff for mine, just need to put it all together in the next day or two. Took me forever to find a #1 piston, and of course there are NO reasonable aftermarket options. Gonna need cylinder work next time so I'm gonna probably go for a big bore.
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:41 AM   #6659
ktmmitch
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Originally Posted by Albie View Post
Just finished getting all the top end stuff for mine, just need to put it all together in the next day or two. Took me forever to find a #1 piston, and of course there are NO reasonable aftermarket options. Gonna need cylinder work next time so I'm gonna probably go for a big bore.
Good thought,I will ask if they can machine some slightly larger diameter Gruppe 2 pistons in the batch of 48, for those with higher mileage/worn barrels.
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Old 12-25-2012, 08:55 PM   #6660
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Originally Posted by Mudguts View Post
The rally cam produces 6+hp all in the hi rev range ,but you lose a lot of lo and mid power most of us would want more mid range as that we're we ride in the rev range , but having a 728cc monster would be a lot of fun in the outback here in Aus (as long as you have the fuel range) .


Mitch a lot of the work you are doing has already been done , Or are you looking for some thing different ?
One of the other reasons the rr go like stink through the rev range is the ratois of 4th/5th/6th....very close together and bike pulls very hard in higher gears.
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