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Old 12-13-2012, 01:35 PM   #31
AntonLargiader
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Originally Posted by CptImagine View Post
Does that not mean there's air where grease is supposed to be ?
It does not. The hole is through the center of the pin, not through the bearing.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:23 AM   #32
CptImagine
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I have the GS version

With solid pivot pins, the only holes are bottomed and for allen wrenches, the factory data says " vents through pivots" ???? Swingarm pins solid, FD pins solid, and screwed down rubber boots fore and aft . Along with factory warnings to "not grease bearings" ? That is why I assumed there's air where grease is sposta be comment . That along with the sorry. lame a$$ so called seal that come with the SW bearing . It;s a hard plastic spacer, and little more . IMO Beyond abnormal air venting, ie. " thru a bearing", there was no venting in this swingarm . That prompted me to drill the SW and put the undersized cotter pin in same hole .

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Old 12-14-2012, 06:19 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by CptImagine View Post
With solid pivot pins, the only holes are bottomed and for allen wrenches, the factory data says " vents through pivots" ???? Swingarm pins solid, FD pins solid, and screwed down rubber boots fore and aft . Along with factory warnings to "not grease bearings" ? That is why I assumed there's air where grease is sposta be comment . That along with the sorry. lame a$$ so called seal that come with the SW bearing . It;s a hard plastic spacer, and little more . IMO Beyond abnormal air venting, ie. " thru a bearing", there was no venting in this swingarm . That prompted me to drill the SW and put the undersized cotter pin in same hole .
I'm not reallly that worried about 'venting'. Factory data can be wrong - I see it in aviation. If there is any atmospheric pressure changes inside the swingarm as it goes through its travels, for all I know it goes back through the seal into the final drive - and then vents overboard (I have very little faith in the FD input seal because mine pukes oil forward when I'm handling it during maintenance but somehow is oil tight when the bike is in service - and please no one suggest that I change it because its faulty). I have replaced this swingarm several years ago due to PO damage caused by a failed shock and inspected and greased the swingarm bearings then. No big deal. The bike is up on a hoist and I'm prepping to dig into the shaft any day now - here's hoping that the shaft re-grease is uneventful.
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:55 AM   #34
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Vent above the seal.

There is a small triangular hole above the outputshaft seal that works as a breather hole for the swing arm.
Those holes can also cause gearbox oil to leak into the swing arm. The oil vapors causing the grease of the u-joint bearings to get thinner. Therefore not lubricating the U-joints like they should.

This same problem happens with drive shaft splines of the K75/100. But than its the leaking seal in the FD most of the time.(or gearbox)

The re-buildable shafts should be serviced every 10,000 km !! As was told to me by Mat from the Boxer Toko.

IMO Trying to get grease trough the grease point is tricky. As the grease is pushed trough it "should" lube all 4 bearings.
But I have often seen that the grease takes the easiest way out and will squirt out of 1 bearing. And its not going trough the other ones.

When those axles where new nobody could tell me what type of grease to use.
After asking a company how did nothing but re-building drive shafts, they gave me some grease that is so thick and sticky,
that it will never be possible to get it trough the holes into the bearings!!!
So every time I took it apart and stuffed the u-joint bearings and mounted everything again.

(i'm sorry I don't know what type of grease it was)
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:09 AM   #35
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That's the big question. Do you use a very sticky wheel bearing type grease or some less viscous utilitarian variety that pumps easier - and if it pumps easier, does it provide the required protection for those needle type bearings that one finds in u-joint bearing caps? This is turning into a grease thread....
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:44 AM   #36
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10,000K's, even 10,000 miles is too short of an interval to go taking that poor thing apart
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:24 AM   #37
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10,000K's, even 10,000 miles is too short of an interval to go taking that poor thing apart
I'm going in after only 3,500 miles and not because I have to. I figure a re-grease now will keep me going for another 10K. I'll get to see how this aftermarket shaft is actually doing. The bike needs so little this year in the way of work, that I'm actually looking for things to do. Don't worry, I spent the last 5 years undoing all the bad things that PO's had done to it, and it is now where I want it to be mechanically.
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:39 AM   #38
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I just had a driveshaft rebuilt by Bruno in Canada.Not a GS this time, but still a BMW with the very same U-joints.And that one spins much faster.... I think his recommendation is lube at each tire change. It now has over 10,000 kms and is on my bench. I may just remove one of them U-joints and see for myself how much grease is left. I bet there is plenty and then I'll make up my own mind as to the lube intervals.

His recommendations for lube is Synthetic grease, so I just went to the marine shop and bought Amsoil synthetic water resistant.

If I have a chance I'll dig up my pics, may interest some as to what I found for cause of failure on some of them U-joints. Looks like moisture may just seep in between the yoke and U-joint caps, create corrosion which in turn tightens up the caps over the needles/cross....creates more friction/heat, grease runs out and then the joint fails. I sure found corrosion between the caps/yoke and wear marks inside the caps that almost exactly match with the outside corrosion.

So now....to prevent that ingress of moisture, I coat the outside with very sticky grease, as in cable grease out of the 5 gallons buckets at work.I don't think there is anything stickier on the market. Sure was still all there when I removed my driveshaft after 10,000 Kms.

Or.....I could also show my parts to Mr. Jackd, may have some time and will be on the big island toward the end of January. Clean enough to put on the table at Starpucks, they are BMW after all.....
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:46 AM   #39
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Hell jackd, come down to Memphis and I'll let you replace my GS's swingarm and FD bearings.

I'll even let you setup a tent in the yard for free!
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:36 AM   #40
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I'll be there tonight....
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:45 AM   #41
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[QUOTE=H96669;20248064]I just had a driveshaft rebuilt by Bruno in Canada.Not a GS this time, but still a BMW with the very same U-joints.And that one spins much faster.... I think his recommendation is lube at each tire change. It now has over 10,000 kms and is on my bench. I may just remove one of them U-joints and see for myself how much grease is left. I bet there is plenty and then I'll make up my own mind as to the lube intervals.
His recommendations for lube is Synthetic grease, so I just went to the marine shop and bought Amsoil synthetic water resistant. If I have a chance I'll dig up my pics, may interest some as to what I found for cause of failure on some of them U-joints. Looks like moisture may just seep in between the yoke and U-joint caps, create corrosion which in turn tightens up the caps over the needles/cross....creates more friction/heat, grease runs out and then the joint fails. I sure found corrosion between the caps/yoke and wear marks inside the caps that almost exactly match with the outside corrosion. Or.....I could also show my parts to Mr. Jackd, may have some time and will be on the big island toward the end of January /QUOTE]

I'll send you my personal contact info, H96669 - for when you are over in my neck of the woods. I'm generally over here if not working in Vancouver and a visit with you is bound to be entertaining - in January or some later date.

Your synthetic grease recommendation is something that I will look into - I don't know much about them. Aviation grease is where my expertise is, seeing as I have seen many issues caused by moisture contamination and frigid temperatures that render systems inoperable over the years. I am also aware that grease will take the path of least resistance when being pumped in, but seeing as my new driveshaft is quite new, there shouldn't be any blockages caused by older congealed grease that might prevent even distribution.

When I was in the market for a driveshaft re-build, I was looking for a quick turn time and a re-builder that would replace the vibration damper material due to a pre-set that all OEM shafts seem to exhibit in service. HPM was starting to get some returns on his work and Bruno doesn't change it out. The Emerald shaft got into my hands a day before our last major labour dispute at Canada Post started..... I'll report my findings here when I finally get into my swing arm repair - and that will also include the state of my bearings.
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:21 AM   #42
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^^^ Bring me some aerospace grease, I'd be all over that.Yes need a better analysis of them U-joints. I know that not many, if any have taken one of them out to check for possible causes of failure. Shail sure does have interesting toughts on them, also has to do with angle of operation. From what I know now, 16 Degree should be MAX, watch the preload.That's according to a Kiwi/Dutch that...!

I should put in a good word in for Bruno, I did have a quick turnaround on the K. Couple weeks and no welding on the shaft to accomodate the circlips grooves. That reminds me I should check the specs vs OEM, he may be using a slightly shorter U-joint to do that. Need to do more comparisons, a few driveshafts here to do just that.

Not that easy pulling one of them U-joints out without destroying the evidence.

Pivot bearings....now $67.00 each! Good thing I like to maintain mine, and take them apart with the dental pic. Still using the old BMW Red Jelly on them, got to finish that tube.... almost done after 20 Yrs or so. May switch to Amsoil Synthetic, now have lots of that.
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Old 12-15-2012, 03:25 PM   #43
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[QUOTE ....and no welding on the shaft to accomodate the circlips grooves. That reminds me I should check the specs vs OEM, he may be using a slightly shorter U-joint to do that. Need to do more comparisons, a few driveshafts here to do just that. Pivot bearings....now $67.00 each! Good thing I like to maintain mine, and take them apart with the dental pic. Still using the old BMW Red Jelly on them, got to finish that tube.... almost done after 20 Yrs or so. May switch to Amsoil Synthetic, now have lots of that.[/QUOTE]



If he's using a smaller u-joint - something with a smaller 'spider' - would that not mean that the needle bearing contact area would be shorter? This would put higher loads on the needles and give them a shorter life span. And would not the smaller size give less travel capability to the u-joint - something you don't need with the GS?

The pivot bearings were $65 a few years ago when I bought them - I only bought one. The parts guy questioned this because the notes said that they were a one use item and suggested that I change the pair. I replied that I knew all about these bearings and my method would work just fine.

What the hell is 'royal jelly'? I'm using a red aircraft specification wheel bearing grease for my various areas of application - it seems to hold up well here but I see it getting ugly when exposed to moisture on our aircraft.
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:06 PM   #44
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Red Jelly....the old controversial BMW spline lube.N/A now and hasn't been for a long time. Looks just like the old Texaco No.5. Quite familiar with that one,Texaco...my youth. Also long gone...! And "Red Jelly" because it also looks like some of them cake decorating jellies....!

It is just that, extreme pressure red bearing grease.

I'll do some measurements on them U-joints and pics for sure. I just installed my repaired K driveshaft and rode this summer, my rule is "NO wrenching in the summer". Maybe I'll take one U-joint out, would remind me of my youth learning that with grandpa. Not that I did not practice U-joints replacements later on. Mexico...old van...a jack...hammer...sockets. Back on the road with a new "cruceta". Even the parts guy did not know the proper spanish words.

Give me a few days...shop is a mess and .

I'll find you some needles....
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Old 12-23-2012, 07:08 AM   #45
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The late 80's setup has arrived

Thanks to all who've helped on this string . I bought this mc 10 years ago with virtually no miles on it . 65,000 miles, and 3 years ago I started riding it . After weighing the $400-600 investment and the "prudent" 10,000 mile greasing and general servicing of the paragoric driveline/driveshaft on my 93gs . I have decided, It's being retro fitted with a lengthened SA and DS from a vintage mono RT . My other ride is, an RT that has 160K miles on it . I never even looked at the driveshaft, every 20K I'd lube the trans spline . At 50K remove the trans/SA/DS to clean the clutch & it's cavity . To date all the failures in my gs driveline have happened within 200 miles of home base . What I consider very good karma, at about annual, 20,000 mile intervls . I do not want to rely on karma to get me outa Mexico anytime . Front SA brgs, rear FD brgs, and now the DS have failed . The original DS lasted 65,000, ammazzing miles . Looking at 10 to 20,000 miles of riding between the misery of maintaining that driveline is not enough IMO . For $342. delivered, a complete pivot pins to wheel bolts, drive line from a mono RT has arrived here . $342, along with the machine cost I can't handle and the professional wheel build, lie ahead . One such guy outlined the project on ADVR, many thanks, he spent $1500 . This plan has become my way of dealing with paragoricdriveshaft short falls, if it happens inside $1500, I'll be thrilled . My caper south of the border this year is off . One orig DS in vg condition one needing rebuilt, 2 FD's and 2 SAs', the Ohlins 541 . Are about to hit the market, as a result of this desision . I wake at night since this escapade began, with thoughts of this para DS crapping out in the frontier between San Cristobal and Chetumal, on a 110 degree day . Or on the mile high dirt roads of Oaxaca, down into Tapachula . At those temps, and in those locals, where are you to find a "heatgun" or "torch", Just to get it apart ? If in fact you locktite the steel pin to the alum housing ? That's why a year back I began using permatex and marking the pin, with daily inspections . Yesterdays AirMail arrived with another guy asking Oak what to do with the stripped out threads in his gs SA . Along with another gs guy who's rear u-joint failed . I am moving forward by heading rearward at this point . It's been a 3 year crash course in the gs mode . The mc was coined Karma, when the SA bearings went away in Cumberland, Md. after 20k in Mexico . The name was changed to "KarmaNewt" after the FD bearings went away in Richmond, enroute home from Mexico the next year . Karma, because she always gets me home . Newt becuase working on/with it is like dealing with Newt Gingrich the ex unyeilding speaker of the house . Thanks again

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