target fixation

freaking RT · 03-17-2005, 11:37 AM

http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/mot_mib/index.html

"Steady fixation favours disappearance, blinks or gaze shifts induce reappearance. All in all reminiscent of the Troxler effect, but stronger and more resistant to residual eye movements."

keep those eyes moving when riding

the link was sent to me from an old A-6 fighter jock

Mikas · 03-17-2005, 12:00 PM

Target fixation is an interesting fenomenom. You tend to follow what you look at. This is very important when trying to avoid a crash against an obstacle. You should always try to find the exit point and follow it. Never the object you're trying to avoid. Sometimes you can see it happening in on races. A rider crashes on a curve, because he was going to fast, and the one that was behind follows because he was fixated on him.
It appears it's a remanescent instinct from our hunter past, when tracking and following prey.

HarveyMushman · 03-17-2005, 12:06 PM

Cool link, Buddy.

I know I have allowed myself to do this on occasion.

jodyrevb · 03-19-2005, 04:04 PM

Absolutely astonishing demonstration.

Jody Hudson

GODSPEED · 03-19-2005, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freaking RT

http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/mot_mib/index.html

"Steady fixation favours disappearance, blinks or gaze shifts induce reappearance. All in all reminiscent of the Troxler effect, but stronger and more resistant to residual eye movements."

keep those eyes moving when riding

the link was sent to me from an old A-6 fighter jock

Man RT, that is a great demonstration, thanks for posting.

Rider · 03-19-2005, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freaking RT

http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/mot_mib/index.html

"Steady fixation favours disappearance, blinks or gaze shifts induce reappearance. All in all reminiscent of the Troxler effect, but stronger and more resistant to residual eye movements."

keep those eyes moving when riding

the link was sent to me from an old A-6 fighter jock

Nice link, Buddy.

Fascinating demonstration.

4SEVEN3 · 03-19-2005, 08:10 PM

Thanks for the link. I checked out a few of the other demostrations as well, really neat!

MikeCont · 03-20-2005, 05:57 PM

I have learned on the GS that you go where you are looking. I was having a bit of a slow speed/stopping problem on uneven surfaces. When I started consciously looking up and looking where I wanted to be, the problem went away. Thanks for sharing the demonstration, It is a good example of part of the problem.

knary · 03-20-2005, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Hill

I have learned on the GS that you go where you are looking. I was having a bit of a slow speed/stopping problem on uneven surfaces. When I started consciously looking up and looking where I wanted to be, the problem went away. Thanks for sharing the demonstration, It is a good example of part of the problem.

we should go for a ride.

Freak, excellent link.

BUBB · 03-21-2005, 07:54 AM

I've never thought I was bothered much by target fixation - its not that I didn't think it existed, but it just never bothered me.

Then:

This weekend my wife wanted me to drive up to B'ham where she had been visiting, then come back through Cheaha and ride the curves and twisties before coming back. (about 475 miles)

I'm nursing a headcold and an earache, but it kinda a pretty day so I go for it.

Terrible trip. I can't hold a line. I think its the suspension so I fiddle with it - its not.

Once, I look in the rearview mirror for a second and nearly ride off the road. Another time I fiddle with the GPS and find myself on the double yellow in a curve looking at a pickup truck. At stops there are times when I can't get the bike to stop "right on" where I want it to stop.

I'm off the bike until this stuff clears up.

svs · 04-11-2005, 02:28 PM

The filp side of Target Fixation is "look where you want to go and you will go there". I was out this weekeknd in the mountains around Ojai, Focused on setting my corner entry speed and proper apexing and rolling on the throtle for hard exits. The thing that made it all work was vision, I was always traking my exits and beyond, Head was on a swival to the point my neck got sore. Bottom line was I rode within limits and rode fast. Twice came around blind corners upon animals in the rode, Coyote and a Vulture with a Rabbit. Grabed the Binders, hit the horn and both times they scattered --the vulture was stubborn, must like rabbit, did not want to take flight without bugs in his grasp. I fought hard to take my eyes off them and to look around them.

My one street crash on Ortega Hwy in So Cal was largely due to looking off the corner as a locked the rear wheel and not thru the corner where I wanted to go....

learn this lesson..It's a life saver.

Rick G · 04-12-2005, 06:31 AM

I had an unpleasent exerience just yesterday concerning target fixation on my R80 G/S. I was on a very narrow country road approaching a slightly uphill blind left handed 90 degree turn. I see that there is lots of gravel while approaching the corner and begin to brake to slow my entry speed before leaning into the turn. But I can't take my eyes off the gravel or my fingers off the brake lever. I finally forced myself to turn my head to look through the curve just before running out of road, but at that instant, a pickup truck comes around the bend which distracts me for a split second, but as I was l already was running out of road, I decided to stand the bike up and just squeeze the binders even more, hoping to just come to a stop. Well the rear tire stepped out on the gravel just a bit at the same time the front wheel drops off the road and down we go. Fortunately, I was only going 5-10 mph at that point, and other than a broken hand guard and a couple of scuffs, I was back up on the bike and going again in about 30 seconds, repremanding myself for being so "stupid".

I believe if I had just braked, released and then looked through the turn, like you are suppose to, nothing would have happened. It is still early in the season so hopefully, that is a lesson that will stay with me all season!

Rick

kdxkawboy · 04-15-2005, 08:26 PM

Bear with me on this bit of ramble ...

You are walking down the street, do you think about the mechanics of how to walk or do you just look at where you want to go and get there? Pick your sport, tennis, football, baseball, when you are chasing the ball do you worry about the mechanics of how to reach the ball or do you just focus on the ball? Shooting baskets, do you focus on the mechanics of the shot or do you focus on the basket and let the ball find its way there?

This is good target fixation. You are focused on goal and your little auto pilot gets you there. Bad target fixation is when you slip up and get focused on something you don't want to do. You get your auto pilot all confused. The auto pilot is used to taking its directions from what you are looking at and so it takes you where you are focused.

In this case, the reaction was right. You snapped your attention back to the task at hand only to run into Murphy's Law and the surprise of the cage through you off again, but you snapped right back with the srivival instinct of grabbing the brakes and praying for enough straight. So you got caught by some bad target fixation, after that you did pretty good.

Back when I did some ski instructing, bad target fixation was something you always came around to working on. For most folks, when they were able to catch themselves doing the the bad fixation the problem quickly corrected itself. Most folks aren't aware it was happening until it was too late. My coaching was they should shout as they became aware of something they didn't want to ski into. More often than not, the fourth shout was more of an OH!, as their head snapped back to look at where they wanted to go.

Rick G · 04-20-2005, 07:19 AM

I can appreciate your ski analogy as I am also an avid skier. I remember taking a lesson at Steamboat 10 or so years ago, telling the instructor that I wanted to be able to ski the trees better. He quickly told me that you don't want to learn to ski the trees, but you do want to learn how to ski the SPACES in between the trees. I chuckled, but his point was made. You look at the trees, you will hit the trees. You look at the space in between, and that is where you will go. I have repeated that tip to many ski buddies over the years, always getting a chuckle and a "DUH!", but they get the point.

BTW Steamboat has the best tree skiing of any resort that I have ever been to, and I have been to quite a few!

Rick

AdvSkier · 04-20-2005, 07:25 AM

Snowbird is still open and that's where I'm going to spend a few hours this morning.

03-17-2005, 11:37 AM	#1
freaking RT ^OP will golf for food Joined: Nov 2001 Location: just outside Richmond, VA Oddometer: 27,260	target fixation http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/mot_mib/index.html "Steady fixation favours disappearance, blinks or gaze shifts induce reappearance. All in all reminiscent of the Troxler effect, but stronger and more resistant to residual eye movements." keep those eyes moving when riding the link was sent to me from an old A-6 fighter jock __________________ IBA#10787 “We, the people, are the rightful masters of both congress and the courts - not to overthrow the constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the constitution.” – Abraham Lincoln "Fathom the odd hypocrisy that Obama wants every citizen to prove they are insured, but people don't have to prove they are citizens". -Anonymous WV VA Good Eats Map

03-17-2005, 12:06 PM	#3
HarveyMushman commutingmysentence Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Virginia, USA Oddometer: 15,901	Cool link, Buddy. I know I have allowed myself to do this on occasion. __________________ Tim photo blog

03-19-2005, 04:04 PM	#4
jodyrevb Slocum Furlow Joined: Sep 2004 Location: East Carolina Oddometer: 62	Target fixation Absolutely astonishing demonstration. Jody Hudson __________________ “Just when I discovered the meaning of life -- they changed it.” ___George Carlin

03-20-2005, 05:57 PM	#8
MikeCont Gelande Strasse Gebrochen Joined: Nov 2004 Location: "The Couve" Washington, USA Oddometer: 2,024	I have learned on the GS that you go where you are looking. I was having a bit of a slow speed/stopping problem on uneven surfaces. When I started consciously looking up and looking where I wanted to be, the problem went away. Thanks for sharing the demonstration, It is a good example of part of the problem. __________________ 2006 R1200GS 1973 Honda trail 90 "All things in moderation, including moderation"-Chace

04-11-2005, 02:28 PM	#11
svs All Hands on Deck! Joined: Apr 2005 Location: Huntington Beach Oddometer: 20,690	look ahead The filp side of Target Fixation is "look where you want to go and you will go there". I was out this weekeknd in the mountains around Ojai, Focused on setting my corner entry speed and proper apexing and rolling on the throtle for hard exits. The thing that made it all work was vision, I was always traking my exits and beyond, Head was on a swival to the point my neck got sore. Bottom line was I rode within limits and rode fast. Twice came around blind corners upon animals in the rode, Coyote and a Vulture with a Rabbit. Grabed the Binders, hit the horn and both times they scattered --the vulture was stubborn, must like rabbit, did not want to take flight without bugs in his grasp. I fought hard to take my eyes off them and to look around them. My one street crash on Ortega Hwy in So Cal was largely due to looking off the corner as a locked the rear wheel and not thru the corner where I wanted to go.... learn this lesson..It's a life saver.

03-17-2005, 12:00 PM	#2
Mikas Studly Adventurer Joined: Sep 2004 Location: Lisbon, Portugal Oddometer: 714	Target fixation is an interesting fenomenom. You tend to follow what you look at. This is very important when trying to avoid a crash against an obstacle. You should always try to find the exit point and follow it. Never the object you're trying to avoid. Sometimes you can see it happening in on races. A rider crashes on a curve, because he was going to fast, and the one that was behind follows because he was fixated on him. It appears it's a remanescent instinct from our hunter past, when tracking and following prey.

03-19-2005, 08:10 PM	#7
4SEVEN3 Studly Adventurer Joined: Jul 2003 Location: Whitsett, NC Oddometer: 996	Thanks for the link. I checked out a few of the other demostrations as well, really neat!

03-21-2005, 07:54 AM	#10
BUBB lynch not Zimmerman Joined: Apr 2003 Location: I'm here because I'm not all there. Oddometer: 20,676	I've never thought I was bothered much by target fixation - its not that I didn't think it existed, but it just never bothered me. Then: This weekend my wife wanted me to drive up to B'ham where she had been visiting, then come back through Cheaha and ride the curves and twisties before coming back. (about 475 miles) I'm nursing a headcold and an earache, but it kinda a pretty day so I go for it. Terrible trip. I can't hold a line. I think its the suspension so I fiddle with it - its not. Once, I look in the rearview mirror for a second and nearly ride off the road. Another time I fiddle with the GPS and find myself on the double yellow in a curve looking at a pickup truck. At stops there are times when I can't get the bike to stop "right on" where I want it to stop. I'm off the bike until this stuff clears up.

04-12-2005, 06:31 AM	#12
Rick G Ranger Rick Joined: May 2004 Location: Euclid, OH Oddometer: 1,641	I had an unpleasent exerience just yesterday concerning target fixation on my R80 G/S. I was on a very narrow country road approaching a slightly uphill blind left handed 90 degree turn. I see that there is lots of gravel while approaching the corner and begin to brake to slow my entry speed before leaning into the turn. But I can't take my eyes off the gravel or my fingers off the brake lever. I finally forced myself to turn my head to look through the curve just before running out of road, but at that instant, a pickup truck comes around the bend which distracts me for a split second, but as I was l already was running out of road, I decided to stand the bike up and just squeeze the binders even more, hoping to just come to a stop. Well the rear tire stepped out on the gravel just a bit at the same time the front wheel drops off the road and down we go. Fortunately, I was only going 5-10 mph at that point, and other than a broken hand guard and a couple of scuffs, I was back up on the bike and going again in about 30 seconds, repremanding myself for being so "stupid". I believe if I had just braked, released and then looked through the turn, like you are suppose to, nothing would have happened. It is still early in the season so hopefully, that is a lesson that will stay with me all season! Rick __________________ Any Road Any Time! 2009 Triumph Bonneville T100 - Neo Classic Retro Tourer. 2009 Vespa GTS Super 250ie - Just for Kicks & Giggles

04-15-2005, 08:26 PM	#13
kdxkawboy Mr. NVKLRGirl Joined: Dec 2004 Location: Gardnerville, Nv Oddometer: 2,631	Bear with me on this bit of ramble ... You are walking down the street, do you think about the mechanics of how to walk or do you just look at where you want to go and get there? Pick your sport, tennis, football, baseball, when you are chasing the ball do you worry about the mechanics of how to reach the ball or do you just focus on the ball? Shooting baskets, do you focus on the mechanics of the shot or do you focus on the basket and let the ball find its way there? This is good target fixation. You are focused on goal and your little auto pilot gets you there. Bad target fixation is when you slip up and get focused on something you don't want to do. You get your auto pilot all confused. The auto pilot is used to taking its directions from what you are looking at and so it takes you where you are focused. In this case, the reaction was right. You snapped your attention back to the task at hand only to run into Murphy's Law and the surprise of the cage through you off again, but you snapped right back with the srivival instinct of grabbing the brakes and praying for enough straight. So you got caught by some bad target fixation, after that you did pretty good. Back when I did some ski instructing, bad target fixation was something you always came around to working on. For most folks, when they were able to catch themselves doing the the bad fixation the problem quickly corrected itself. Most folks aren't aware it was happening until it was too late. My coaching was they should shout as they became aware of something they didn't want to ski into. More often than not, the fourth shout was more of an OH!, as their head snapped back to look at where they wanted to go.

04-20-2005, 07:19 AM	#14
Rick G Ranger Rick Joined: May 2004 Location: Euclid, OH Oddometer: 1,641	I can appreciate your ski analogy as I am also an avid skier. I remember taking a lesson at Steamboat 10 or so years ago, telling the instructor that I wanted to be able to ski the trees better. He quickly told me that you don't want to learn to ski the trees, but you do want to learn how to ski the SPACES in between the trees. I chuckled, but his point was made. You look at the trees, you will hit the trees. You look at the space in between, and that is where you will go. I have repeated that tip to many ski buddies over the years, always getting a chuckle and a "DUH!", but they get the point. BTW Steamboat has the best tree skiing of any resort that I have ever been to, and I have been to quite a few! Rick __________________ Any Road Any Time! 2009 Triumph Bonneville T100 - Neo Classic Retro Tourer. 2009 Vespa GTS Super 250ie - Just for Kicks & Giggles

04-20-2005, 07:25 AM	#15
AdvSkier Studly Adventurer Joined: Mar 2004 Oddometer: 927	Snowbird is still open and that's where I'm going to spend a few hours this morning.

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