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Old 11-14-2011, 05:11 AM   #61
stephen.stallebrass
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With the sidestand foot being enlarged to prevent sinkage, look out for how much you have to lean the bike to the right to kick the stand up? I've had problems in the past with other foot extenders, such as camel toe, which reduces clearance and makes this quite hard. Obviously this is exacerbated with extra weight on the bike... I currently have one with a cut out part that takes this into account so I barely have to lean it.*Be great if they could consider this point!

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Old 11-14-2011, 06:31 AM   #62
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Stephen:

Thanks! So the one shown above works well for you?
The cut-away in the lower right corner being the key to smooth cuss-free operation?
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Old 11-14-2011, 02:15 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen.stallebrass View Post
With the sidestand foot being enlarged to prevent sinkage, look out for how much you have to lean the bike to the right to kick the stand up.... Be great if they could consider this point!
You are right on the money. See my report, next.

Fred
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Old 11-14-2011, 03:22 PM   #64
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Okay, so I didn't ride up to Micheaux today. But no matter, I don't need the side of a mountain to test the SideKicker.

I removed the OEM stand and laid it alongside the SideKicker prototype. Comparing the Sidekicker to Steve's photos (above), you can see he painted it, and it actually looks quite good! He makes custom SideKickers for any make; this must be about what a custom job would look like.





One PM I received was concerned about strength, but that does not worry me at all, based upon my examination of the unit.

Have a look at the yoke area.




And the bottom end.



Here is a view of the foot on the SideKicker and the BMW stand. The SideKicker provides a wide foot, so you don't have to spend an extra $20-30 for one. However, this becomes an issue when (as predicted above) the SideKicker is fully extended and I lean the bike to the right on soft ground in order to kick the SideKicker back up. The size of the foot interferes when swinging the stand out and away from the bike at the apex of the arc to snap the stand up into place. I was not wearing my riding boots, so it was a bit more difficult than usual, but that would reflect the issue faced by someone with less than a 29" inseam. Also, notice where the foot of my BMW OE stand is ground away from heeling over on asphalt. That would be a bigger problem for me with the SideKicker. Therefore, I'd ask that both the inside of the foot and the corner facing the ground (when up) be considerably reduced in size.



Okay, I put it on the bike, and that was straightforward. I left the sidestand switch off, because the prototype doesn't have the hole drilled for the tab on the switch. No big deal. I have the early fully-threaded bolt, so I will be replacing the bolt and bushing with BMW's new design parts to end the sloppy fit.



You can see my PivotPegz in the next photo, and there is no interference with the SideKicker.





There was a question whether the SideKicker can remain extended when up. The answer is yes, even with an OEM centerstand mounted.







As to the unit's operation and length, I rode my F800GS around a farm field in front of my house, stopping on various uneven spots of a rolling meadow. I like the ability to have sufficient extension length to park the bike anywhere, and have all the support the bike needs readily at hand (foot!). I am very confident in the SideKicker's length and strength. So it earns an A+ for solving the problem for which it was designed.

Watch Steve's video of how to kick the SideKicker back into place, because that is something to be learned. I had to doubly kick in order to get the Sidekicker to retract after it had already come up, but after a few stops and parks and pull-offs, I concluded that was my fault. When I followed the instructions, it always retracted, finally doing so on the first kick each time.

However, I had difficulty swinging the SideKicker through the apex of the arc without leaning the bike to the right more than I wanted. After the bike settled on soft ground, the inside edge of the large foot dug into the mud as I tried to raise the SideKicker. I confess I have the same issue with the OE sidestand, but it doesn't require nearly as much lean to the right.

Finally, when I parked the bike in the garage for the night on flat concrete, I found I liked the stand fully extended! I guess I'm just emulating the center stand, with less work. I agree with the post above that BMW's design geometry of their sidestand makes for an unnecessarily difficult task parking an F800GS. But maybe that's what you get with a heavy tall adventure bike. Is the R1200GS so cursed as well? My R1200R Roadster is easy as pie.



I will buy a SideKicker, and I'll learn how to kick it back up until it's second nature. I will ask that Steve modify the foot, and if he doesn't, I'll cut it not only to make it easier to kick the SideKicker up, but also to ensure the foot doesn't dig into the asphalt and lift my rear wheel when heeled over in a lefthand curve. (I do that on my soft TKC80s.) Installation of BMW's replacement bolt and bushing on early F800GSes may go a long way to resolve the latter issue.

I understand the wish for a SideKicker that would have a detent that is shorter than OE, and I would like that as well. But if it cannot be done for technical or safety reasons, that's definitely not a deal-killer for me.

If anyone has questions that require me to test or examine more aspects of the SideKicker, please post them or PM me before I return the prototype to Steve on 18 Nov 2011.

Fred

P.S. Hey, I just remembered. My bike was the test mule for the Machineart Moto Mudslinger, too! What this F800GS does for science!

FredRydr screwed with this post 11-15-2011 at 07:30 AM
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Old 11-14-2011, 06:55 PM   #65
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Nice write up Fred. Glad to see there was no talk of interference with the Pivot Pegz you are using. Price and compatibility with Pivot Pegz + OEM center stand were my biggest concerns, which you have answered 2 of the 3 questions already.
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Old 11-16-2011, 05:11 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
Now is the time to send a PM to me, stating that you want to be part of the group buy for the F800GS Sidekicker. Please include your real name name and email address.

Fred

I disagree. The time to get onboard is AFTER the group price is announced. I can't believe the F800GS version could be so much different that the manufacturer can't commit to a price sooner rather than later. I've been involved in many group purchases in the past and the manufacturer involved normally gives a range of prices to cover the number of possible participants; Example: 1-50 = Price X, 51-100 = Price Y, etc.

Let's hear what the cost is going to be so we can make an informed decision.
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Old 11-16-2011, 05:52 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
No commitment or deposits required.
This is the important part of that, which you conveniently left out. From what I understand, this is just a list to gauge interest; it's not like those other group buys, where you're obligated to buy after your name is on the list.
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Old 11-16-2011, 06:29 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by dendrophobe View Post
This is the important part of that, which you conveniently left out. From what I understand, this is just a list to gauge interest; it's not like those other group buys, where you're obligated to buy after your name is on the list.
I didn't leave out anything, conveniently or otherwise. It's difficult to "gauge interest" when you have no idea what the price is going to be. Further, you're wrong about the other group purchases. You're not obligated to buy though, of course, the more that actually do purchase determines the final selling price. This is why those manufacturers set a range of possible prices depending on the volume of sales. This isn't hard to understand nor should it be to implement.
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Old 11-16-2011, 05:11 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dendrophobe View Post
From what I understand, this is just a list to gauge interest....
That is correct. I am awaiting price as much as everyone else. I have no connection with AKSEngineering. My motivation has been to get them to make their device for the F800GS. Our group interest is making that happen.

Fred
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Old 12-05-2011, 05:23 AM   #70
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Here is the latest from Steve from a week or so ago in response to my reaction to the prototype (above), edited for brevity. Notice the difference of the F800GS swing arc compared to that of R1200GS.
Hey Fred,

We do understand your comment about the foot pad. We'll definitely check out the line you drew on the foot.

To make sure it would not hit on a hard left hand lean angle, we basically made a big protractor centered along the wheel-tire edge line, to find the first point that would touch, which was the center stand. We then positioned the pad so it was no further out than the center stand. So we believe it should be ok. What is the year of your bike? We'll compare it again to the bike we used out here.

[T]he 1200GS does not have the same arc swing, or issue either. I definitely noticed that difference, which requires you to get the bike fully vertical or even slightly lean to the right in order to swing it up, especially if it's in the fully extended version.

Unfortunately, this is just a function of the geometry; I don't have any fix in mind. Do you think this is a show stopper or a significant negative not to proceed?

Let us know any of your thoughts.

Steve

My reply:
Steve,

This is NOT a show-stopper. The need remains, and I think altering the size of the footpad on the inside will reduce the impact of the swing arc. Even if you were to halve the size of the pad, it would be considerably larger than the OE pad. It is interesting that this swing arc is peculiar to the F800GS, unlike the R1200GS. (If the SideKicker when fully extended makes it worse, does your design allow for retraction of the stand BEFORE swinging it through the arc? I didn't try.) I will have to look at the OE sidestand to see what it stops against when down and forward. Could a simple bolt and lock nut be installed somewhere to make the stop point adjustable?

The aftermarket bolt-on footpads do create the same problem, as we were warned by the one post in the ADVrider thread a few entries above my posted reactions to the prototype.

The lack of a group price is causing many to refrain from expressing interest, even though they are not committed to purchase. I realize this may be a cart-before-the-horse issue, but it's human nature. Do the best you can.

The prototype reminded me why I wanted a Sidekicker when we met at Bloomsburg. Very sharp!

Fred

And Steve's response:
Hi Fred,

Thanks for the feedback. No, it will not release until it is about 30 degrees from true vertical. And, the forward stop point should not be altered because it will then be too easy to simply roll forward on the side stand.

As soon as we get the drawings finished and costs from our suppliers we'll get out a group-buy price out to you.

This may not be until the first of the year, however.

Steve

So enjoy your holidays, and Steve will have the price for us in January. I've added a few more names to the list. Meanwhile, if you have any other design thoughts or solutions, please share them.

Fred

P.S. If you want to be part of the group buy for the F800GS Sidekicker, send a PM to me. Please include your real name and email address. No commitment or deposits required. The more names we have, the lower the price will be.

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Old 12-05-2011, 12:03 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
As soon as we get the drawings finished and costs from our suppliers we'll get out a group-buy price out to you.

This may not be until the first of the year, however.

Steve

[/INDENT]So enjoy your holidays, and Steve will have the price for us in January. I've added a few more names to the list. Meanwhile, if you have any other design thoughts or solutions, please share them.

Fred
Thanks for all your efforts on this! I'm really looking forward to seeing and installing the final product.
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Old 12-06-2011, 03:09 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post

Here is a view of the foot on the SideKicker and the BMW stand. The SideKicker provides a wide foot, so you don't have to spend an extra $20-30 for one. However, this becomes an issue when (as predicted above) the SideKicker is fully extended and I lean the bike to the right on soft ground in order to kick the SideKicker back up. The size of the foot interferes when swinging the stand out and away from the bike at the apex of the arc to snap the stand up into place. I was not wearing my riding boots, so it was a bit more difficult than usual, but that would reflect the issue faced by someone with less than a 29" inseam. Also, notice where the foot of my BMW OE stand is ground away from heeling over on asphalt. That would be a bigger problem for me with the SideKicker. Therefore, I'd ask that both the inside of the foot and the corner facing the ground (when up) be considerably reduced in size...


However, I had difficulty swinging the SideKicker through the apex of the arc without leaning the bike to the right more than I wanted. After the bike settled on soft ground, the inside edge of the large foot dug into the mud as I tried to raise the SideKicker. I confess I have the same issue with the OE sidestand, but it doesn't require nearly as much lean to the right.

I'll echo this and the post above. That was the first thing I noticed when we made our first proto which mimicked the shape of the stock foot. Also I was going to mention it, but it seems you have noticed than you can't go too far inboard either. This is what we ended up with:



It looks like a really solid product though that is well put together!

Dave
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Old 12-06-2011, 05:35 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by toowheels View Post
I'll echo this and the post above. That was the first thing I noticed when we made our first proto which mimicked the shape of the stock foot. Also I was going to mention it, but it seems you have noticed than you can't go too far inboard either. This is what we ended up with:

It looks like a really solid product though that is well put together!

Dave
Dave: on a related topic, what is it about the F650GS-twin that requires a different design?
It could might be relevant to the sidekicker ....
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Old 12-07-2011, 02:29 PM   #74
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Dave: on a related topic, what is it about the F650GS-twin that requires a different design?
It could might be relevant to the sidekicker ....
Good point. It's actually just the foot that has a mirrored pattern and shouldn't affect the foot area...
This is the F650 GS version below:



You can see the length differences when you look close. It's pretty much like they welded them on upside down and turned compared to the F8....but they keep doing it.

The shape works the same as the swing is pretty much the same. The F650 "leg" has a little kink though too and of course it's shorter (and even different again on the lowered one).

I would definitely encourage that the proto Sidekicker be mounted on the F650 GS too as it's the best way to find out compatibility.

Sooo many companies seem to be taking the "not actually trying it on the bike with the rider approach (shortcut!)".

Dave
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:36 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by toowheels View Post
... You can see the length differences when you look close. It's pretty much like they welded them on upside down and turned compared to the F8....but they keep doing it.

The shape works the same as the swing is pretty much the same. The F650 "leg" has a little kink though too and of course it's shorter (and even different again on the lowered one).

I would definitely encourage that the proto Sidekicker be mounted on the F650 GS too as it's the best way to find out compatibility.

Sooo many companies seem to be taking the "not actually trying it on the bike with the rider approach (shortcut!)".

Dave
Thanks Dave... weird............ probably "re-optimized" for the kinked stand
I didn't see the foot for the F658GS on the website ... is it released yet?


Fred:
If you need a prototype tester with the F658GS I have one of the early production models I have not taken it appart yet, but I'll bet it has the old style 16mm shoulder bolt....
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