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Old 10-13-2011, 09:30 AM   #46
LukasM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailah View Post
Great idea on the spacer, I may be able to run a regular heavy pds spring instead of the 950. If you can take measurements inside the coils that would be great.

Peter

Ps what do you think of my international build idea??
Ok, I will try to get those measurements for you.

International build sounds cool! I am already trying to get DRJoe to work with me on a custom frame based on KTM 640 or 690 Enduro suspension and parts combined with the Kawi 650 twin (Versys or Ninja). I do the part sourcing and you guys do the design and welding!

By the way I think a BMW F800GS tank and subframe would really work perfectly on the CBR project. The shock cutout is in the same location and you would have all the fuel weight under the seat.... Have a look around the local breakers maybe you can find one cheap.
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Old 10-13-2011, 10:01 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryboy View Post
Enduro Eng shows a 9.6kg 260mm spring for that shock. If you cut a coil off to get down to 250mm it might be stiff enough.
That's the best scenario to just use a dirt bike spring but all the calculators say it's too light for a 375# bike plus not the thinnest rider

I could cut it to stiffen it but that's opening a can of worms. Since this bike will have a lot of travel I think going stiff 950 shock and lean the shock forward to gain more travel st the expense of stiffness might be the recipe. All conjecture at this point. Id prefer to try a bunch of used springs to get closer to the ideal one before I start cutting coils.

P
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Old 10-13-2011, 10:44 AM   #48
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Yo Pete, I found your spring. Available in 12 kg/mm or 13 kg/mm and made specifically for the shock you are using:
http://slavensracing.com/products/kt...-ktmwphusaberg
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Old 10-13-2011, 12:32 PM   #49
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Eek

Thanks buddy, called slavens and ordered a 12 for the back and .58 springs for the front.


You need to ride this beast. And the other one...

P
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:57 PM   #50
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Good gawd that thing is gonna be stiff!!


My 2002 XR650R was about 360 loaded down with 10.5 and .45 springs.
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Old 10-13-2011, 05:43 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by larryboy View Post
Good gawd that thing is gonna be stiff!!


My 2002 XR650R was about 360 loaded down with 10.5 and .45 springs.
Well there might be some differences in suspension. I have the same suspension on my fz1 with 0.64s, but these forks are longer travel. My suspension is dialed on that bike and I love it.

The rear was a guess. The tuner at slavens suggested the rear as pretty much same as a 690. If my weight is low, I'd rather be over sprung.

based on my previous build and the advise of 2 professional tuners who came to the front end spring rate independently, id say it's going to be close.

If not I'll buy new springs. I just need something close so I can get to work getting the rear end done. Everything hinges on that.
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Old 10-13-2011, 06:04 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailah View Post
Well there might be some differences in suspension. I have the same suspension on my fz1 with 0.64s, but these forks are longer travel. My suspension is dialed on that bike and I love it.

The rear was a guess. The tuner at slavens suggested the rear as pretty much same as a 690. If my weight is low, I'd rather be over sprung.

based on my previous build and the advise of 2 professional tuners who came to the front end spring rate independently, id say it's going to be close.

If not I'll buy new springs. I just need something close so I can get to work getting the rear end done. Everything hinges on that.
I agree that the springs rates you ordered are good educated guess. You can't compare the spring on a linkage XR to your non-linkage CBR. A good reference bike is the 950 Super Enduro, which is lighter than a 950 Adventure, and probably a little heavier than what your CBR is going to weigh. SE owners seem to like the 13 kg/mm spring on their bikes, so the 12 kg/mm sounds right for your build. Of course, the angle of the shock mount will influence your sag numbers. Same goes for the forks: .58 is right where you should be when you look at the spring rates that 950SE owners are using.

Larryboy, your XR needs stiffer fork springs. No way your sag numbers are even close to optimal with a 360 lb load plus rider. I run .46 on my FE570 Husaberg and that's on the light side for my 230 lb rider weight and no extra gear.
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Old 10-13-2011, 06:37 PM   #53
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Well after my last build trying to fabricate tons of little gussets and brackets I decided to spend a little cash to buy a bunch of pre fabbed parts from aa. Really cheap when you factor in your time



New bling arrived, this thing is mint

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Old 10-13-2011, 10:08 PM   #54
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Nice You will do a real enduro of it.
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Old 10-14-2011, 05:54 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by OhioPT View Post
Larryboy, your XR needs stiffer fork springs. No way your sag numbers are even close to optimal with a 360 lb load plus rider. I run .46 on my FE570 Husaberg and that's on the light side for my 230 lb rider weight and no extra gear.

What's interesting is that this XRR was near perfect, sag was right there and I could jump it with no bottoming issues. I could tell that it was just slightly undersprung with a fresh 7 gallons on board, but you just twist the grip to get rid of the weight and within 30 miles it was back to perfect.

Tons of people were going to lighter springs on the 610 and I never had any issues with it...all the suspension experts said it was too stiff and I was using all of the travel front and rear with good sag numbers.

I tend to ride within the limits of the machine rather than try to go faster with suspension mods...I'm not in a race. My 1150GS hybrid is getting .49 fork springs and 15w fork oil...I'll ride it within whatever limit it gives me.


Love AA for tabs and stuff, Sailah!!! I need to put another order together from them, bought a bunch of stuff from them and it has lasted me for years. Huge time saver, even if you just use a tab for a pattern to make more.
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Old 10-14-2011, 08:08 AM   #56
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What's interesting is that this XRR was near perfect, sag was right there and I could jump it with no bottoming issues. I could tell that it was just slightly undersprung with a fresh 7 gallons on board, but you just twist the grip to get rid of the weight and within 30 miles it was back to perfect.

Tons of people were going to lighter springs on the 610 and I never had any issues with it...all the suspension experts said it was too stiff and I was using all of the travel front and rear with good sag numbers.

I tend to ride within the limits of the machine rather than try to go faster with suspension mods...I'm not in a race. My 1150GS hybrid is getting .49 fork springs and 15w fork oil...I'll ride it within whatever limit it gives me.


Love AA for tabs and stuff, Sailah!!! I need to put another order together from them, bought a bunch of stuff from them and it has lasted me for years. Huge time saver, even if you just use a tab for a pattern to make more.
Larry,

I based my springs on what I have used before and what I'm currently running inn the same forks. Plus what javier and slavens said. The 950 runs 0.48 stock and those are terrible. I guess it just comes down to what YOU want. If your bike works well awesome. I'm not building it for anyone else, if someone else rides it and says it's oversprung I'll tell em to build their own.

I can't believe I wasted so much time trying to make a $2 gusset. And it's still not as nice as the aa stuff. I'm def going to be using them again. Their website is terrible I'm glad they sent a catalog with my order, much easier than flipping through 30 pages.
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Old 10-14-2011, 09:00 AM   #57
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Larry,

I based my springs on what I have used before and what I'm currently running inn the same forks. Plus what javier and slavens said. The 950 runs 0.48 stock and those are terrible. I guess it just comes down to what YOU want. If your bike works well awesome. I'm not building it for anyone else, if someone else rides it and says it's oversprung I'll tell em to build their own.

I can't believe I wasted so much time trying to make a $2 gusset. And it's still not as nice as the aa stuff. I'm def going to be using them again. Their website is terrible I'm glad they sent a catalog with my order, much easier than flipping through 30 pages.

Yup, suspension is 90% opinion.

Love that AA catalog!!
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Old 10-14-2011, 12:04 PM   #58
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Linky for "aa"?

I've use The Chassis Shop for similar bits & pieces. They have a nice selection of weld-in bungs for fluid containers -- radiator overflow, oil tank, gas tank, etc.

They also sell "exhaust donuts" which are formed sheet metal, well... donuts. They are extremely tight bends, except they start life as flat sheet metal and not tube. They're real problem solvers if you have worked yourself into a corner on an exhaust.

http://secure.chassisshop.com/
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Old 10-14-2011, 12:42 PM   #59
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If it's A&A the link is here: http://www.aa-mfg.com/pdshop/shop/category.aspx?catid=5 Good stuff, I've bought from them.
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Old 10-14-2011, 02:44 PM   #60
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Its a roller...

Sort of.

I was sick of trying to calculate where it was going to end up once I got the right springs, swingarm/shock ratio etc. So I just went for it.

I found a piece of heavywall 1.5" tube and cut the miters to fit in the frame. Took my new handy shock mounts from A&A ($3 btw...) and tacked them in place. I'll need to grind some clearance on the bottoms of them so the shock body doesn't bind. Cycled the shock once and nailed my swingarm/shock ratio to get the travel I was looking for.

Put the spring (admittedly this was a soft spring, but the bike also doesn't weigh much now. And the fork springs are soft too) in and dropped the bike off the table.

Took my angle gauge and got 28 degrees rake static which is exactly what I set my last bike at and what quite a few motocross (YZ 450 is 27 ish)bikes have. A KTM EXC is 26.5. I can always steepen it up by increasing the preload or rotating the "arms" of the shock mount counterclockwise to raise the ass end. I'm close enough for working the design spiral. Or basically my wife called me up and I didn't have anymore time to screw with it other than these pics.



Here's what I am thinking about for a mount. The tube is beefy, the arms are pretty stout. I plan on bracing up the arms with some of the gussets. Plus running a couple pieces of tubing from the mount back to the frame to help stiffen the mount laterally. It looks plenty burly to me. You?





Big milestone I got today. I'll be able to get some better figures once I get the springs in the mail in a few weeks the 0.59's are custom order.

I'm also not in full trim obviously. I do think for what I want this bike to do, I'm pretty damn close. I don't want to burn in the whole rear mount solid yet because if I discover I made an error its a pain in the ass to "unweld"

I can always get it within 10% and then get to work on the subframe and underseat tank. I like those parts of the build that I get to design in CAD first and cut out and they work perfectly. I'm pumped to put the new TIG machine & my skills to the test with this aluminum tank design. I have some fun ideas as to how to squeeze more than 3 gals in, stay tuned.

As always comments and criticism welcome.
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