ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Some Assembly Required
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-14-2011, 04:45 PM   #61
sailah OP
Lampin' it
 
sailah's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Turning expensive metal into scrap
Oddometer: 5,504
Of course when you go back down to the garage after your wife releases you from duty and jump up and down on tack welds while making revving noises and the tacks break and the shock slams the carbs off the intake and your sweet $3 AA shock mount turns into an awesome nut cruncher, well that would be pretty much what I just experienced.



It does have some sweet ass action though. Right up until shit breaks
__________________
We're not out here to rough it. We're here to smooth it . Things are rough enough in town.

Nessmuk
sailah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 12:07 AM   #62
larryboy
Chopper Rider
 
larryboy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: On a set of 50,000 mile tires.
Oddometer: 14,257
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailah View Post
Here's what I am thinking about for a mount. The tube is beefy, the arms are pretty stout. I plan on bracing up the arms with some of the gussets. Plus running a couple pieces of tubing from the mount back to the frame to help stiffen the mount laterally. It looks plenty burly to me. You?




As always comments and criticism welcome.

I don't think you need the extra tube there. I'd do exactly like what you have in this picture and weld a couple of little tubes into the extra holes on the brackets.

If anything you could add a couple of gussets against the cross tube there and forward along the frame. Crappy quickly drawn lines..

__________________
Be sure the safest rule is that we should not dare to live in any scene in which we dare not die. ~Lewis Carroll~
larryboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 04:04 AM   #63
DRjoe
Beastly Adventurer
 
DRjoe's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Sunshine coast qld
Oddometer: 5,019
An international bike build eh, what could possibly go wrong

All we need to do now is recruit someone who works for UPS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasM View Post
Ok, I will try to get those measurements for you.

International build sounds cool! I am already trying to get DRJoe to work with me on a custom frame based on KTM 640 or 690 Enduro suspension and parts combined with the Kawi 650 twin (Versys or Ninja). I do the part sourcing and you guys do the design and welding!

By the way I think a BMW F800GS tank and subframe would really work perfectly on the CBR project. The shock cutout is in the same location and you would have all the fuel weight under the seat.... Have a look around the local breakers maybe you can find one cheap.
DRjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 07:07 AM   #64
sailah OP
Lampin' it
 
sailah's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Turning expensive metal into scrap
Oddometer: 5,504
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRjoe View Post
An international bike build eh, what could possibly go wrong
Absolutely nothing


Larry,

My reasoning for the tubes are that the force vector is trying to wrench the arms forward and off the crosstube as well as rotate that tube. As evidenced by my jumping, it's quite a bit of force. Now admittedly I was jumping on tack welds, but I would like to counteract that force by tying the top of the mount with a short piece of 1" tube. The additional weight is really small and I think it would do a lot to strengthen that whole mount with triangulation. I do like your idea of welding in tubes to the other holes, hadn't thought of that.

I have some smaller gussets I may use forward, what I am more concerned about is stopping the arms from trying to rotate forward as well as lateral stability.
__________________
We're not out here to rough it. We're here to smooth it . Things are rough enough in town.

Nessmuk
sailah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 10:03 AM   #65
larryboy
Chopper Rider
 
larryboy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: On a set of 50,000 mile tires.
Oddometer: 14,257
Another good trick is to make mounting plates out of 1/4" flat for your cross tube so you can spread the load on the stock frame for that twisting force that the cross tube is going to see. An even better way to do it is to drill the frame and run the main cross tube through both walls of the frame on each side...typing out loud...yeah, that's what I'd do.
__________________
Be sure the safest rule is that we should not dare to live in any scene in which we dare not die. ~Lewis Carroll~
larryboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 10:20 AM   #66
sailah OP
Lampin' it
 
sailah's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Turning expensive metal into scrap
Oddometer: 5,504
I thought about plating the insides of the frame and considered going through the frame. Couple things stopped me. First I didn't have tubing that long and I didn't want to risk drilling a big hole and not have it aligned perfectly. What I am going to do is brace the cross tube to the frame when I am done. Good points bud
__________________
We're not out here to rough it. We're here to smooth it . Things are rough enough in town.

Nessmuk
sailah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 10:27 AM   #67
larryboy
Chopper Rider
 
larryboy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: On a set of 50,000 mile tires.
Oddometer: 14,257
I hear ya, it's hard to get things lined up perfectly with angled spars like that frame has.

Ok, gotta get to work on the Zombie.

Maybe I should clean up and re-group, my garage is starting to look like your place.

__________________
Be sure the safest rule is that we should not dare to live in any scene in which we dare not die. ~Lewis Carroll~
larryboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 03:46 PM   #68
sailah OP
Lampin' it
 
sailah's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Turning expensive metal into scrap
Oddometer: 5,504
I got my rear shock mount where I wanted it. To avoid welds breaking again, I pretty much welded it solid. It'll need finish welding once I drop the motor out and can get to the underside. Mount is really solid. I put a dial indicator on the frame and jumped up and down and barely a wiggle. I took Larryboys advice and burned in two tubing sections to hold the plates together. Couldn't get a weld all the way around those.




Then I turned up a couple pieces and tapped one of them to take the top shock mount bolt. Welded those to the mount.



The angled brace I wanted to keep the mount from rotating forward.



I bent up the top tubes for the subframe. I want it to follow the original lines in the back as I plan on running stock YZ plastic.



I need to redesign my heim joints or redrill them. The struts will be straight.





Sorry about the crappy pics, I was trying to hold stuff and take pics with my cellphone.
__________________
We're not out here to rough it. We're here to smooth it . Things are rough enough in town.

Nessmuk
sailah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 04:04 PM   #69
larryboy
Chopper Rider
 
larryboy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: On a set of 50,000 mile tires.
Oddometer: 14,257
That looks really good!!

Are you going to do a tube brace on the other side too?


I got some help today over here, nice to have parts held up so I can visualize what I want to do.
__________________
Be sure the safest rule is that we should not dare to live in any scene in which we dare not die. ~Lewis Carroll~
larryboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 04:14 PM   #70
sailah OP
Lampin' it
 
sailah's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Turning expensive metal into scrap
Oddometer: 5,504
Quote:
Originally Posted by larryboy View Post
That looks really good!!

Are you going to do a tube brace on the other side too?
I want to avoid it. I'm putting the battery down there as well as possible drop down in the fuel tank to take up that area and with a brace it is going to really intrude and lock off that space. It might be necessary but that shock mount is pretty tuff as it is, not sure it is necessary. Plus since it's off center due to the swingarm mount, it wouldn't be at the right angle to resist forward rotation like the other one. It would certainly help and with lateral flex but I think I have that covered with the gusset and the other brace.
__________________
We're not out here to rough it. We're here to smooth it . Things are rough enough in town.

Nessmuk
sailah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 09:11 PM   #71
sailah OP
Lampin' it
 
sailah's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Turning expensive metal into scrap
Oddometer: 5,504
Got a few more things done tonight.

Made the rod ends for the struts and got some of the subframe welded.



The exhaust header isn't going to work stock so I'm going to have to make a custom header that hugs the engine to clear the wheel

The stock header tubes are 1.375". I have a 1.25" die. Anyone see a problem stepping down like that? My limited exhaust knowledge says I'll lose to p end and gain torque. Yes or no?
__________________
We're not out here to rough it. We're here to smooth it . Things are rough enough in town.

Nessmuk
sailah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 09:28 PM   #72
larryboy
Chopper Rider
 
larryboy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: On a set of 50,000 mile tires.
Oddometer: 14,257
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailah View Post
I want to avoid it. I'm putting the battery down there as well as possible drop down in the fuel tank to take up that area and with a brace it is going to really intrude and lock off that space. It might be necessary but that shock mount is pretty tuff as it is, not sure it is necessary. Plus since it's off center due to the swingarm mount, it wouldn't be at the right angle to resist forward rotation like the other one. It would certainly help and with lateral flex but I think I have that covered with the gusset and the other brace.

Yeah, it's plenty strong. Do what fits.

__________________
Be sure the safest rule is that we should not dare to live in any scene in which we dare not die. ~Lewis Carroll~
larryboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2011, 07:21 AM   #73
sanjoh
Purveyor of Light
 
sanjoh's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Mountains of Central Florida:)
Oddometer: 4,867
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailah View Post
The exhaust header isn't going to work stock so I'm going to have to make a custom header that hugs the engine to clear the wheel

The stock header tubes are 1.375". I have a 1.25" die. Anyone see a problem stepping down like that? My limited exhaust knowledge says I'll lose to p end and gain torque. Yes or no?
Yep more torque, just what you need

Your shock mount looks weak to me. You really need another brace in tension IMO.
sanjoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2011, 07:36 AM   #74
pennswoodsed
lizards,bugs and me
 
pennswoodsed's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: Reading,Pa
Oddometer: 707
short answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailah View Post
Got a few more things done tonight.

Made the rod ends for the struts and got some of the subframe welded.



The exhaust header isn't going to work stock so I'm going to have to make a custom header that hugs the engine to clear the wheel

The stock header tubes are 1.375". I have a 1.25" die. Anyone see a problem stepping down like that? My limited exhaust knowledge says I'll lose to p end and gain torque. Yes or no?
Yes , swag #,s and MEZ portings website advised torque peak moves 650 to 800 rpm downward for each 1/8 inch diam reduction of headpipe . My understanding (swag) is that collector behavior will mitigate small headpipes ,anyhoo.
Regards,Ed
ps Where are you located ?
pennswoodsed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2011, 08:12 AM   #75
sailah OP
Lampin' it
 
sailah's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Turning expensive metal into scrap
Oddometer: 5,504
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjoh View Post
Yep more torque, just what you need

Your shock mount looks weak to me. You really need another brace in tension IMO.
Well I think after building a 145HP bike that maybe I don't 12k redline offroad

What about the mount looks weak specifically? I'm not one to underengineer a mount, but this mount is better thought out and stronger IMO than what I put on the FZ1. The crossbar will resist rotational forces applied by the lever arm and the diagonal to the frame will lock the arms in place. The only thing I see being an issue is the force vector of the arms is straight ahead rotating clockwise, the diagonal is off on an angle so the arms could buckle with extreme force applied which is why I put in the gusset.

I'm not trying to disagree with you just want to understand what makes you think that. I am open to ideas, Larrys idea of the tubes through the vacant holes made that bad boy bombproof. I also designed the bolt collars to be fat enough so that I would join the tube and the collar to further help the strength.

To me, it looks way heavier duty than what I removed, granted that was street bike stuff. But the forces were greater due to the angle and short stroke of the shock. This bike has the angle in favor of strength and a much longer and plush stroke to reduce shock load. And believe me when I say I ain't doing 30' triples

Quote:
Originally Posted by pennswoodsed View Post
Yes , swag #,s and MEZ portings website advised torque peak moves 650 to 800 rpm downward for each 1/8 inch diam reduction of headpipe . My understanding (swag) is that collector behavior will mitigate small headpipes ,anyhoo.
Regards,Ed
ps Where are you located ?
That would be great. Not only do I have the correct bending dies to make the SS header, the smaller pipes will make it easier to fit. The bike stock is about 100 HP, I would love to lose 20 and make that back in torque numbers. Even a couple would be nice. When I have taken my FZ offroad, you need to be so careful as it doesn't like to lug and my Lord will it spin some tires.

Plus those pipes are heavy as hell and I need to lose some weight.

I'm in Pittsburgh, PA
__________________
We're not out here to rough it. We're here to smooth it . Things are rough enough in town.

Nessmuk
sailah is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 08:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014