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Old 10-17-2011, 07:41 PM   #151
dolomoto
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Originally Posted by nytrashman View Post
i ride some well traveled local bike routes and i can honestly say i hate the way bicyclists ride. 2 and 3 abreast deliberately blocking traffic and forcing cars into the on coming lane in order to pass. they do not stop at red lights and think they do not have to obey any traffic laws.

i once asked a local cop if he would give me a ticket if the speed limit was 45mph and i was driving along at 15mph and he said he would ticket me for impeding the flow of traffic. when i asked if he would give bicyclists a ticket when they ride 3 abreast at 15mph in a 45mph zone he said no. WTF, why are they allowed to impede the flow of traffic without being given a ticket?

if bicyclists want to gain my respect as a legitimate form of transportation on public roads then they need to show some common curtsies, as well as obey the traffic laws.

right, wrong or indifferent, that cute little spandex suit and your funny little helmet is not going to do you any good when you or one of your buddies who are riding 3 abreast get clipped by a car or truck. i learned a long time ago when i was a kid that if you ride your bike in traffic and get hit by a car your gonna come out on the losing end. by the way some of these bicyclists ride it is apparent they never learned that lesson as a child.

again, if you want my respect as a legitimate form of transportation on public roads then start obeying the traffic laws. until that happens you bicyclists are just another group of people who think there entitled to use the road however they see fit, yet you pay no road use tax, no registrations fees and no licensing fees.

just like loud pipes on motorcycles piss people off, the way you ride your bikes in traffic does nothing but give the general public a bad opinion of all bicyclists.
Good points all around...let's do a "breakdown"...

Bicycles are vehicles (as defined by law...not my rule). You should not share a lane with a bicycle...share the road...YES! Share the Lane...NO!

What you view as obstinate cyclists riding 2-3 wide may be defensive riding. Just as a motorcyclists perceives many road hazards that cagers ignore (potholes, tire treads, debris, etc), cyclists notice many more things on/adjacent to the roadway that other users may not notice.

But, some cyclists are ASSHOLES. They drive their bicycle like they drive their car. As a cyclist who rides 5000-7000 miles/year...I have words equally between inconsiderate cagers and inconsiderate cyclists (if you want respect, obey the rules of the road!).

An LEO would be unlikely to get a successful prosecution for giving a cyclist a ticket for "impeding" traffic...remember, the law says cycles are vehicles and in most cases have an irrevocable right to the road (again,the Law).

Cyclists do pay taxes. That pavement you ride on is paid for by many forms of taxes...property taxes for one. Realistically, cycles don't "wear" the road out like so many of the SUV's or big trucks, then there's the RV's and 5th wheel drivers. In the big scheme of things, the property taxes a cyclists pays surely covers the minimal wear and tear on the road. (If we really want to be fair, heavy vehicles should pay more than lighter vehicles...how much tax should my 20lb bicycle pay vs. my 3000lb car?)

Cyclists (and peds) can be ticketed without licensing. No new laws are needed. If a cyclist breaks the law, he can be ticketed without a license or tag. Another law is NOT needed.

Most of us do not notice the vast majority of cyclists who ride courteously and responsibly. You may only notice that bastard that delayed you for 30 seconds.

Then again, Life is better with a bit of compromise. Just like we don't all take up every transgression by fellow cagers, maybe, just maybe, we should cut those asshole cyclists a break....after all, they are on two wheels.
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:18 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Gordy View Post
If nothing else, you now know where the money comes from to build roads.
.....and it's not from bicycle sales tax.
Yup, federal grants pay for the building of the roads with money from fuel taxes, but from the moment the asphalt is laid down it is up to states, counties and cities to pay for the upkeep of them and that money comes from property taxes, sales taxes and so on, not from federal fuel taxes.

So what that means is that everyone who has a motorized vehicle in the US has paid into the building of the roads, but from then on it's through your states different taxes that the funding for the upkeep is coming and that means that everyone has exactly the same right to use them, since if you live here, you pay for the maintenance of them through your property tax and other state taxes.
So it's not car drivers that pay more at that point, it's actually bicyclist and pedestrians (and motorcyclists) that pay more for the use of the roads.

We're not the first ones to have this discussion, others have tried to get a hold of this kind of information before us and it seems like it's car drivers that should get the fuck off of my roads
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:17 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by Balanzed View Post
Yup, federal grants pay for the building of the roads with money from fuel taxes, but from the moment the asphalt is laid down it is up to states, counties and cities to pay for the upkeep of them and that money comes from property taxes, sales taxes and so on, not from federal fuel taxes.



You are wrong again!!

States pay for maintenance (and construction) of the roads with matching funds. They usually match federal money with state money that comes from mostly the road fund and to a lesser extent things like road bond funds.
Property taxes go into the general kitty and can be used for anything (jails, libraries, arts, parks, mayors salary, ball fields, schools, etc.) Cities usually rely on the general fund to pay for things like bike paths that state money isn't availabe to cover.

BTW, there have been lots of federal,state and local projects around here that built bike paths. Why can't I drive my moto on them??
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Old 10-18-2011, 01:47 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by Crusier Dude View Post
I have had to cross over the Yellow line to many times for these faggot spandex douche Bags. I want to know how to make my diesel smoke like this.

We have had a few deaths here in Boise also due to the ASS HOLE bikers riding two or three abreast taking up a whole lane.

First off the shitheads DON'T PAY ANY ROAD TAXES OR REPAIRS so stay the hell off my roads that I DO PAY TAXES on.
Get your homophobic bullshit rhetoric out of here. The roads in the US are paid for via many different taxes, mostly sales and income. NOT just fuel or registration taxes, which most cyclists pay anyway due to them owning a fucking car just like your dumb ass. So shut the fuck up and find a new argument. Yours is old and tired.

This thread was doing amazingly well until the end of page one. I'm mostly proud of you guys.
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Old 10-18-2011, 03:50 AM   #155
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Same discussion different day. I've posed this question before, but didn't really get a response. We'll have another go.

I pay property tax on my home and vehicles. Some of that money is used to pay for schools. I don't have kids. Why must I share the burden?

I would like my money to be apportioned for those services I use. Perhaps it could be put in to the road fund to offset my use on the bicycle.
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Old 10-18-2011, 03:57 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Gordy View Post


You are wrong again!!

States pay for maintenance (and construction) of the roads with matching funds. They usually match federal money with state money that comes from mostly the road fund and to a lesser extent things like road bond funds.
Property taxes go into the general kitty and can be used for anything (jails, libraries, arts, parks, mayors salary, ball fields, schools, etc.) Cities usually rely on the general fund to pay for things like bike paths that state money isn't availabe to cover.

BTW, there have been lots of federal,state and local projects around here that built bike paths. Why can't I drive my moto on them??
No, I'm not really wrong, but I also didn't lay it out in detail and used a more generalized argument to support your argument instead of the "money goes from here to here, to there and a little goes there and some of it goes there" and now I'm going to tell you why: everyone pays into the building and upkeep of the roads! Not just motorized vehicles. Period!
Your claim when you berated FeMan was that fuel taxes pays almost all of it. Now you've changed that claim after I pointed out, that, no, they don't! Anyone paying taxes in their states are part of keeping the shit together, not just internal combustion engine users and that is the end of the argument because bicyclist and pedestrians do pay their way and compared to the impact they have on the roads they certainly pay more than their fare share.

It's not your fucking road, it's not my fucking road, it is our fucking road!
It's that easy. If you, for some reason, have a hard time comprehending that, then maybe you shouldn't have a license to drive a vehicle in the first place, since your understanding of society is, to put it lightly, a little warped.

Here is a little light reading for us all:
http://publicola.com/wp-content/uplo...elves_-wUS.pdf
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Old 10-18-2011, 04:09 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by xtop20A View Post
it is an insane law by criminally stupid lawmakers,it will cause more death and injury than designed to save..i just think if the fukin bicycle rider has a bike lane that should be enough,fukem if they fall over when a cage/truck or a motrcycle goes by,they need to pay attention and ride straight when being overtooked
...overtaken...

I do the same thing but, just couldn't resist. (usually when I post before coffee)
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Old 10-18-2011, 04:14 AM   #158
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[QUOTE=One Less Harley;17098190
Bikes can ride two abreast and be within their legal rights.
.[/QUOTE]

Depends on the State. Here in Pa. it's mandatory to ride as "far to the right" and "single file" while "obeying vehicular traffic codes at all times". (paraphrased but, that's the general jist)
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Old 10-18-2011, 04:46 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Balanzed View Post
No, I'm not really wrong, but I also didn't lay it out in detail and used a more generalized argument to support your argument instead of the "money goes from here to here, to there and a little goes there and some of it goes there" and now I'm going to tell you why: everyone pays into the building and upkeep of the roads! Not just motorized vehicles. Period!
Your claim when you berated FeMan was that fuel taxes pays almost all of it. Now you've changed that claim after I pointed out, that, no, they don't! Anyone paying taxes in their states are part of keeping the shit together, not just internal combustion engine users and that is the end of the argument because bicyclist and pedestrians do pay their way and compared to the impact they have on the roads they certainly pay more than their fare share.

It's not your fucking road, it's not my fucking road, it is our fucking road!
It's that easy. If you, for some reason, have a hard time comprehending that, then maybe you shouldn't have a license to drive a vehicle in the first place, since your understanding of society is, to put it lightly, a little warped.

Here is a little light reading for us all:
http://publicola.com/wp-content/uplo...elves_-wUS.pdf


I didn't flip. You did. You said that commercial vehicles paid the road tax and then believed that was what was paying for maintenance.
Fuel taxes do pay for more of the road construction than other taxes. Probably combined.


So why can't I ride a moto on the bike paths? They have been paid for by all of us. It's certainly safer for all involved than a bicycle in a 45 mph zone mixing it up with 3,000# cars and trucks.
There are lots of cool shortcuts and I really want to ride on them. It's my right. It would save gas and make some more room on the streets for cars. Besides, most of the cars don't like motos on the streets either.
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Old 10-18-2011, 06:00 AM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordy View Post

I didn't flip. You did. You said that commercial vehicles paid the road tax and then believed that was what was paying for maintenance.
Fuel taxes do pay for more of the road construction than other taxes. Probably combined.


So why can't I ride a moto on the bike paths? They have been paid for by all of us. It's certainly safer for all involved than a bicycle in a 45 mph zone mixing it up with 3,000# cars and trucks.
There are lots of cool shortcuts and I really want to ride on them. It's my right. It would save gas and make some more room on the streets for cars. Besides, most of the cars don't like motos on the streets either.
I never looked at it like that.
What a great idea.
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Old 10-18-2011, 08:34 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by Gordy View Post
Besides, most of the cars don't like motos on the streets either.
This is the ironic part of this whole frigging discussion.

We're both (cyclists both pedal and moto) are marginalized by society but yet most can't see past their biases to realize that.

Just look at the penalties that the judicial system hands out for hitting either a bicycle or a moto... Its a freaking joke. Ya think that maybe we should be working TOGETHER to get that fixed? Maybe?!

M
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Old 10-18-2011, 08:40 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by xtop20A View Post
well the motorcycle riders all they need to do is stay the fuk outta the way,they are secondary users of the commerce on the hiway,the main bit of respect needs to go to the truckers,and when a bunch of dik likin motorcycle riders are fukin grabbin' ass riding 3 wide ,well they need an ass kickin or run over whichever is easiest
Fixed for what cagers may see in motorcyclists...

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtop20A View Post
whenever i see the cocksuckers riding side by side i get as close as i can,speed up and then lay on the horn as i overtake,thats in my pickup truck
its great fun
You are a great big asshole!
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Old 10-18-2011, 08:40 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by bumblebee1 View Post
I object to people crossing the road without looking and cutting in front of a car.
I object to groups of people walking in the middle of the road trying to assert their manhood.
I object to pedestrians crossing an intersection against a red light.
I object to those that walk on the side of the road in the same direction as trafic.
And those are just the ones that come to mind.
I'm sure there are many other examples to be mentionned.

There is no cure for stupid.


When I see a man riding a bicycle, I assume he lost his license for drunk driving.
There, I said it!
Yes, there is. Unfortunately they have created all sorts of laws to protect the stupid and will charge the inattentive or unprepared driver with things like homicide, manslaughter or negligence when it was the negligent law breaker or fundamentally stupid that got run over and killed by a two-ton automobile.


Now, on with the thread.

I pass as wide as possible to avoid being tangled up with a bicyclist who turns his head left to see if I'm overtaking him safely and then proceeds to swerve further into the middle of the lane.

I also swerve over as far right when approaching a bicyclist impeding traffic on the other side of the road so as not to become a hood ornament of the angry driver trying to get around them.

I also agree that many times it's the bicyclists fault for having experienced close calls with other motorists. As mentioned, those that use their size to filter to the front at red lights only to be passed over and over by faster traffic bunched up behind them again and again. You can piss off ten drivers once or you can piss off the same ten drivers ten times in ten minutes. It's certainly a choice you make.


P.S. I ride bicycles too, I just avoid traffic and cars at all cost. I used to commute on a bicycle and hated (feared) any of the locations that put me on public roads when trails were nearby.
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Old 10-18-2011, 08:59 AM   #164
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My observation

I do ride a road bike a lot, and I try to do it in a predictable, considerate fashion. But fast.

Here's what I see in my area: most of the time when I'm bothered by bad drivers, they are fully capable of passing me without drama. I don't ride two abreast, or in large groups, or without awareness. I think that drivers are often angry over something that had nothing to do with me. It has to do with their dickhead boss, or male pattern baldness, or the fact that their woman is an intolerable bitch, or some such thing. And they see someone they don't relate to, riding on "their" roads, dressed in faggotty clothing and looking lean and fit (without that beer gut that's crept up on them), and they think of some cyclist last Tuesday who was riding like a douche, and they get all angry and decide to express themselves by scaring me a bit. They honk. They glare. They pass way too closely. They throw crap at me. They shout in my ear, just to get a rise out of me.

But here's the thing. When I catch up to them in the parking lot at the gas n sip and suddenly appear, large as life and RIGHT FUCKING THERE...they are rarely prepared to express themselves at all.

So here's my plea: whatever you ride, don't be inconsiderate. And if you're carrying a shitload of anger over having to pass someone on the road, then perhaps you need to change your job, embrace your baldness, or tell that woman of yours to leave.
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Old 10-18-2011, 09:18 AM   #165
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I give them as much space as possible, especially if they seem a bit wobbly. I ride bicycles, so I have some empathy.

In California, road bicycles often refuse to ride at the shoulder, and instead ride side-by-side in the traffic lane. I was once towing a trailer with an older diesel pickup when I cam upon a group of bicyclists who were taking up the whole lane. On coming traffic forced me to slow to a crawl behind them. When I finally got to make the pass, I completely covered them in diesel smoke. It wasn't intentional, but I was on a hill with a lot of weight. If they had been riding single file, I would have been able to coast past them without a bit of smoke.
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