ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-25-2013, 04:11 AM   #2626
Gummee!
That's MR. Toothless
 
Gummee!'s Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Location: NoVA for now...
Oddometer: 27,840
What does Three-Feet Mean for Cyclists and Motorists?

Submitted by Kris Thompson on
By Megan Hottman, TheCyclist-Lawyer.com
A few years ago C.R.S. 42-4-1003 was enacted. In pertinent part it states:
42-4-1003. Overtaking a vehicle on the left
The driver of a motor vehicle overtaking a bicyclist proceeding in the same direction shall allow the bicyclist at least a three-foot separation between the right side of the driver's vehicle, including all mirrors or other projections, and the left side of the bicyclist at all times

Megan showing us what 3ft is like
In my opinion, the law really should include the words “when safe to do so.” In other words, if a motorist cannot safely give a cyclist three feet when passing, without interfering with oncoming traffic, the motorist should slow down and wait BEHIND the cyclist, while oncoming traffic passes, and THEN proceed to pass the cyclist with the 3 foot buffer.

I experienced this myself firsthand a few years ago, when a large F-350 truck passed me from behind, giving me in excess of 3 feet. Unfortunately for him, the same make and model truck was approaching from the opposite direction. The truck passing me crossed the centerline to give me space, but in doing so, he crossed the center line and went into oncoming traffic’s lane. The result is that they sheared one another’s side mirrors off. The oncoming truck was driven by an off-duty police officer; he informed the truck passing me in no uncertain terms, that he needed to WAIT BEHIND ME before attempting to pass with three feet. The driver attempting to pass me was obligated to pay for the damage to both trucks and was cited as the at-fault party. I felt terrible because I was so grateful he had given me so much passing room.
But the reality is –the 3-foot law does not override or supersede a driver’s obligation to ensure it is safe to pass or cross the center line. The driver must check for oncoming traffic first. If oncoming traffic prevents passing a cyclist with three feet, the motorist must wait behind the cyclist. Not crowd into them in the lane. Not swerve back over into the lane and knock the cyclist off the road. Wait. Safety first. Then, 3 feet. Many motorists do not realize this is the proper analysis.
As luck would have it, as I was writing this article Jerry N., an avid cyclist and cycling advocate, contacted me. He informed me that very recently, he called Colorado State Patrol (CSP) to report a motorist who passed him too closely and CSP pursued the motorist and issued a 3-foot law violation citation. Jerry asked me not to share his full name, or the complaint and report, since the case is currently pending, but he did offer some advice to cyclists who want to report this type of encounter:

[Megan]
Jerry, this is great news that you took the time to place the call and complete a traffic complaint report - and that CSP took it seriously and pursued it! What advice would you give other cyclists who wish to do the same when a motorist passes them too closely or "buzzes" them? What number did you call to submit your complaint?

[Jerry] Well, it takes a moment to collect yourself after suddenly feeling as though you are dazed and confused. Make sure that you are first able to safely maintain your line and resume your presence of mind to operate the bike within your comfort zone. Then, as you do so, look up, gain a visual on the license plate. Recite the number to yourself. Then repeat the number internally or aloud. Then associate a date, a month and a calendar day to the numerical portion of the license number. Use words beginning with the letters that appear on the plate. Keep repeating these to yourself in order that you can remember it. Commit the vehicle type, make, model, color and approximate year and try somehow to ascertain a visual on the driver. Commit the driver's physical features to memory so that you may describe and or visually identify the driver at a later time.

Stop when it is safe to do so and call *CSP or *277. Tell the Colorado State Patrol dispatcher where you are and why you are calling. He or she will then patch you through to the local jurisdictional authority. Be prepared to provide a detailed description of the sequence of events and depending on the severity of the alleged transgression you may request an officer or agent respond in person or you may ask, otherwise to create a case file.
If you are unable to physically identify the driver law enforcement may not respond in person but are likely to accept your request to record a driver in the registered vehicle you describe on file as having failed to yield a three foot berth or as having presumably driven intentionally close to you or whatever may be the case in your circumstance.

[Megan] Jerry, as you are probably aware, law enforcement officers do not often cite motorists with a 3-foot violation -- even where a motorist hits a cyclist. What steps would you like to see us as cyclists taking, to encourage law enforcement to use this statute more often, and to enforce it?

[Jerry] Call it in whenever the situation arises and as often as you fall victim to the menace, threat, discourtesy, ill will or pure negligence, apathy, disregard or complete ignorance of the law. A deluge of ongoing reports of this nature will trigger flag words in dispatch recordings being monitored and lead to heightened awareness within agencies which share volumes and frequencies of calls received on specific matters or common subjects.
The officer I most recently spoke with (who issued the summons I requested against a driver), told me over the phone that he believed the law was limited in its purview only to roads in rural locations such as winding mountain roads. I asked him to go and review and read the statute. When I spoke with him the following day he begged my pardon and admitted that he was unaware of the breadth of the law and that is does, in fact, apply to all circumstances of a cyclist being overtaken or passed by a motor vehicle. This means on all roadways, streets and highways inside the state of Colorado.

So, with this being said, we as cyclists ought to concern ourselves with increasing awareness of the law and its application in as many ways as we can.

Many thanks to Jerry for sharing his success story in this instance!

Lifted verbatim from 303cycling.com


edited to add: take a gander at that pic. If your wheels are to the left of the 3' markings, you're in the opposite lane with at least half your vehicle. If you're going to go over the centerline to get around a cyclist or multiple cyclists anyway, what difference does it really make how far over you've gone? If something's coming, everyone's hosed. ...so don't pass where you can't see! Simple concept, really.

M
__________________
I'm a cyclist that rides motos, not a moto rider that rides bicycles.
Gummee! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 06:51 AM   #2627
kbasa
Colnago!
 
kbasa's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2002
Location: Marin County, California
Oddometer: 66,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digasi View Post
I don't know how it is down there, but here it isn't that bad. I hear the exact same complaints from the locals and I call their BS. I have rode a bicycle for two years as my main means of transportation. Yes I did use the same streets as they complain about and no, never had a big problem. In two years I never had to avoid the bike lane for anything longer then a couple of feet. Certainly never seen any need to avoid it for miles.

Besides, if you can't handle glass, tree debris, sand, gravel on a bicycle, how in the world do you expect to handle them on a motorcycle?
It's about tire punctures on bicycles. Tires are thin and can, in some cases be punctured by thorns. A 23cm tire doesn't handle deep gravel at all, either.

I have almost a half million miles on motorcycles, by the way.
__________________
IMHO.

Fuck Cancer. Ride bikes. - dave + tina
kbasa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 08:02 AM   #2628
ttpete
Rectum Non Bustibus
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Dearborn, MI
Oddometer: 5,507
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbasa View Post
It's about tire punctures on bicycles. Tires are thin and can, in some cases be punctured by thorns. A 23cm tire doesn't handle deep gravel at all, either.

I have almost a half million miles on motorcycles, by the way.
That's just bicycling. When I rode, I carried a spare tube and a tire pump. And I was intelligent enough to not use paper thin tires.
__________________
10 Ducati 1098 Streetfighter S - "Sleipnir"
09 Kaw Versys
67 Triumph Bonneville TT Special
"The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" _____ Margaret Thatcher
ttpete is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 08:14 AM   #2629
windmill
Beastly Adventurer
 
windmill's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Kent, Washington State
Oddometer: 4,084
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbasa View Post
It's about tire punctures on bicycles. Tires are thin and can, in some cases be punctured by thorns. A 23cm tire doesn't handle deep gravel at all, either.
Its perfectly reasonable to avoid areas of debris or conditions that can cause a flat, but if the cyclists choice of wheels / tires forces them to to stay out of the bicycle lane / shoulder more often than not, then perhaps they should consider wheels / tires more appropriate to the prevailing conditions they ride in, or ride roads better suited to their choice of equipment.

If we want others to respect us, we need to meet them halfway.

I have no problem with sharing the road with bicycles, and don't mind a delay to make a safe pass.
Is it unreasonable to ask that cyclists make some accommodations such as using equipment that is safe and suitable for the roads they ride?
__________________
"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".
windmill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 08:20 AM   #2630
windmill
Beastly Adventurer
 
windmill's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Kent, Washington State
Oddometer: 4,084
Quote:
Originally Posted by k-moe View Post
Only one thing wrong with that that I can see, (and it's a nitpick, but a valid one) driving is not a right, it's a privilege that is earned, which requires a greater adherence to the responsibilities that are required to retain the privilege.
Really it isn't a right or privilege, its conditional use of a public asset.
__________________
"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".
windmill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 08:34 AM   #2631
ttpete
Rectum Non Bustibus
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Dearborn, MI
Oddometer: 5,507
Quote:
Originally Posted by windmill View Post
Really it isn't a right or privilege, its conditional use of a public asset.
Nice work, deflecting a deflector!
__________________
10 Ducati 1098 Streetfighter S - "Sleipnir"
09 Kaw Versys
67 Triumph Bonneville TT Special
"The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" _____ Margaret Thatcher
ttpete is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 09:32 AM   #2632
kbasa
Colnago!
 
kbasa's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2002
Location: Marin County, California
Oddometer: 66,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
That's just bicycling. When I rode, I carried a spare tube and a tire pump. And I was intelligent enough to not use paper thin tires.
I roll with "endurance" tires and tubes, which are more resistent to punctures, but broken glass is going to get me. And two inches of gravel washed off the road is going to get me. And that tree branch is going to get me. A team mate was riding down the road and her tire picked up a "Devil's Claw", a seed pod. It jammed up behind her fork, throwing this 60yo woman to the ground, breaking her elbow.

It's a different set of risks. Risks that are not present in other forms of transportation.

And, let's get down to it - the only reason anyone here is pissed at cyclists is for one of two reasons: they've come across jackass cyclists or they're just impatient.
__________________
IMHO.

Fuck Cancer. Ride bikes. - dave + tina
kbasa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 02:18 PM   #2633
rbrsddn
3banger
 
rbrsddn's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Madison,CT
Oddometer: 2,455
Reason 3

And, let's get down to it - the only reason anyone here is pissed at cyclists is for one of two reasons: they've come across jackass cyclists or they're just impatient.[/QUOTE]


Don't forget, they're angry that someone is actually getting off the couch, and doing something about their fitness, or lack thereof, increasing the self loathing...
rbrsddn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 02:39 PM   #2634
kbasa
Colnago!
 
kbasa's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2002
Location: Marin County, California
Oddometer: 66,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbasa View Post
And, let's get down to it - the only reason anyone here is pissed at cyclists is for one of two reasons: they've come across jackass cyclists or they're just impatient.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbrsddn View Post
Don't forget, they're angry that someone is actually getting off the couch, and doing something about their fitness, or lack thereof, increasing the self loathing...
Well, there's that, but I try not to go there...

I suspect the "cock pants" crowd is probably in that group. I just can't figure out the endless fascination with a pair of spandex/lycra shorts. Jeebus. This coming from people who wear cordura, leather jumpsuits and other moto gear that the rest of the world finds odd.

I guess Loaded had it right: "Everyone is someone else's weirdo."
__________________
IMHO.

Fuck Cancer. Ride bikes. - dave + tina
kbasa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 03:01 PM   #2635
ShardPhoenix
Наглый ублюдок
 
ShardPhoenix's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Location: Grants Pass, Oregon
Oddometer: 800
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbasa View Post
And, let's get down to it - the only reason anyone here is pissed at cyclists is for one of two reasons: they've come across jackass cyclists or they're just impatient.




I'm not a cyclist by any scope of the word... Haven't owned a bicycle since I got my license to drive. Don't have any issues with those who do choose to cruise around on pedal powered devices.... except those that do it in a completely jackass fashion, and those get lumped in with the rest of the jackasses on the road.

A few weeks ago I ran across a couple of said jackasses. Riding two abreast in the middle of the lane and refused to switch to single file to allow traffic to maneuver past them in a safe fashion. Sight lines on that particular stretch of road weren't conducive to using the oncoming lane to get around safely. Was plenty of room on the shoulder for them to use while motorized traffic was present.

Didn't help that some cars just made the situation worse by not waiting until sight lines were clear before getting impatient and passing the cyclists. I was just waiting to witness a nasty head on thanks to the group effort douchebaggery going on by both cyclists and motorists.


On another note..

Saw quite a few cyclists on my moto-ride from SW Oregon to N. Idaho the other day. A couple were obviously on long distance rides and I have to give them props for that. Gave 'em a "beep beep" and wave and thumbs up as I rode past them. They looked like they were having a good time for sure.
__________________
I ride 652ccs of slug.
ShardPhoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 03:11 PM   #2636
Dranrab Luap
E-Tarded
 
Dranrab Luap's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Oddometer: 30,006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Handy View Post
I agree, people around here complain about it too on the same roads that I ride on. I have never been thrown to the ground from running over a piece of gravel. If it is such a danger maybe they should get some bigger tires.
If harmoniously coexisting with other LEGAL road users is a big issue for you, maybe you should get a helicopter.
Dranrab Luap is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 03:17 PM   #2637
Dranrab Luap
E-Tarded
 
Dranrab Luap's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Oddometer: 30,006
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShardPhoenix View Post



I'm not a cyclist by any scope of the word... Haven't owned a bicycle since I got my license to drive. Don't have any issues with those who do choose to cruise around on pedal powered devices.... except those that do it in a completely jackass fashion, and those get lumped in with the rest of the jackasses on the road.

A few weeks ago I ran across a couple of said jackasses. Riding two abreast in the middle of the lane and refused to switch to single file to allow traffic to maneuver past them in a safe fashion. Sight lines on that particular stretch of road weren't conducive to using the oncoming lane to get around safely. Was plenty of room on the shoulder for them to use while motorized traffic was present.

Didn't help that some cars just made the situation worse by not waiting until sight lines were clear before getting impatient and passing the cyclists. I was just waiting to witness a nasty head on thanks to the group effort douchebaggery going on by both cyclists and motorists.


On another note..

Saw quite a few cyclists on my moto-ride from SW Oregon to N. Idaho the other day. A couple were obviously on long distance rides and I have to give them props for that. Gave 'em a "beep beep" and wave and thumbs up as I rode past them. They looked like they were having a good time for sure.
It's not always a question of room on the shoulder. The condition of the shoulder and the debris on the shoulder are also concerns. Things the average motorist won't notice.
Dranrab Luap is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 03:40 PM   #2638
ShardPhoenix
Наглый ублюдок
 
ShardPhoenix's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Location: Grants Pass, Oregon
Oddometer: 800
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dranrab Luap View Post
It's not always a question of room on the shoulder. The condition of the shoulder and the debris on the shoulder are also concerns. Things the average motorist won't notice.

Clean shoulder in good condition in this case.

Thanks for picking nits though.
__________________
I ride 652ccs of slug.
ShardPhoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 03:47 PM   #2639
Dranrab Luap
E-Tarded
 
Dranrab Luap's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Oddometer: 30,006
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShardPhoenix View Post
Clean shoulder in good condition in this case.

Thanks for picking nits though.
It's an important consideration. I have no problem whatsoever riding on a clean shoulder. It's a very very bad idea to buzz me when I am riding as far right as practicable in the lane when you think I should be on the shoulder. You could really see that the shoulder was free of debris. No broken glass, no nails? I can't say I have ever paid that much attention from a cage.
Dranrab Luap is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 04:08 PM   #2640
ShardPhoenix
Наглый ублюдок
 
ShardPhoenix's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Location: Grants Pass, Oregon
Oddometer: 800
Paul, I wasn't in a cage.. Was riding my motorcycle, which happens to me my daily commute-mobile.

From what I saw of the shoulder, because I looked to see if there was a reason the cyclists were opting to not move over for a short bit to help ease the slight cluster fuck that was going on, I didn't see anything that would have made their mountain bikes spontaneously burst into flames or shred their tires. Not hard to do when you're only going 10mph and you're wondering why a couple of cyclists weren't doing their part to help maintain harmony on the roadway.

I understand the point you're trying to make, but please don't question a scenario when you weren't there to see what was going on. Bottom line was, there was little to prevent the two cyclists from, at the very least, switching into single file in order to create more breathing room for everyone. It's what I would have done if I had been riding a bicycle in that scenario, because I wouldn't want to get run over or be the catalyst that caused some impatient fuckwit to do something that ended up in a head on collision with another car.
__________________
I ride 652ccs of slug.
ShardPhoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 09:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014