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Old 07-09-2013, 09:47 AM   #2806
g容g
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next town over....
sadly I can see it happening.
people are really in a hurry

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Old 07-09-2013, 01:38 PM   #2807
mrt10x
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYHatterasTrail View Post
I didn't mean to say I pass bicycles aggressively, even though there are times I am a bit annoyed when they take the full lane on a mountain road. My feelings are that if they are impeding traffic by their actions, then they should not do it ... it's dangerous for all involved. Take the full lane and move over single file to the right side of the lane. I don't feel this is unreasonable
Have you ever heard the expression "if you have to ask the question then you will never understand the answer." it applies to you.. as well as to every other poster in here who thinks road cyclists are somehow "endangering" you in your 2000lbs of steel.
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:16 PM   #2808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrt10x View Post
Have you ever heard the expression "if you have to ask the question then you will never understand the answer." it applies to you.. as well as to every other poster in here who thinks road cyclists are somehow "endangering" you in your 2000lbs of steel.
IMHO That is a cop-out response. People should ask questions in order to learn and understand. Using that is like saying I am better than you and wouldn't bother even talking seriously with you!

Jim
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:36 PM   #2809
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2,000 pounds? Nothin' but smart cars where you live?
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:07 AM   #2810
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Originally Posted by rob feature View Post
2,000 pounds? Nothin' but smart cars where you live?
I live in a wee small state, with only tiny cars

And I will respectfully disagree with your assessment Jim, and I think a thorough reading of this thread proves my point.
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:16 AM   #2811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrt10x View Post
I live in a wee small state, with only tiny cars

And I will respectfully disagree with your assessment Jim, and I think a thorough reading of this thread proves my point.
I'll sorta agree and disagree with both sides of y'all's disagreement.

Without true first-hand experience of what your fellow road users do to bicycles, you just won't get it. No, it isn't the same on a MC. Similar, but not the same. That lack of a throttle is a big one.

...but without discourse on the subject, no one will ever get it.

M
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:38 AM   #2812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
I'll sorta agree and disagree with both sides of y'all's disagreement.

Without true first-hand experience of what your fellow road users do to bicycles, you just won't get it. No, it isn't the same on a MC. Similar, but not the same. That lack of a throttle is a big one.

...but without discourse on the subject, no one will ever get it.

M


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Old 07-10-2013, 09:10 AM   #2813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrt10x View Post
Have you ever heard the expression "if you have to ask the question then you will never understand the answer." it applies to you.. as well as to every other poster in here who thinks road cyclists are somehow "endangering" you in your 2000lbs of steel.
I have personally witnessed a cyclists bad decision causing an accident, bad road users can endanger others. Anybody who doesn't understand this should stay off the road.
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:54 AM   #2814
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Originally Posted by windmill View Post
I have personally witnessed a cyclists bad decision causing an accident, bad road users can endanger others. Anybody who doesn't understand this should stay off the road.
one cyclist out of how many? I wasn't there, but I have a really hard time believing that two wrongs made a right.

I'm not saying everyone on a bicycle's an angel, but the vast majority of miles I've ridden, *I'VE* never been the cause of an accident. I've never been the one making the decision to go around me in the wrong place/time.

I've never been the one trying to pass someone on a bicycle just to turn right just in front of them. aka 'the right hook'

I've never been the one in the car turning left in front of anyone on a bicycle (or moto) (SMIDSY)

I've never been the one that HAS to get to the stop sign first, only to find the bicyclist on their ass. Had that happen twice yesterday. They were both less than 50m from the stop sign AND they went completely into the opposite lane coming to a blind T intersection.

Didya stop and think about that one, Einstein?! Guess not.

I'll say it typically isn't the cyclist 'causing an accident.' Typically its impatient car drivers that don't stop and think about their actions that cause accidents.

...and guess who loses? Yeah, it isn't the person in the X tons of steel with seatbelts on.

M
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:03 PM   #2815
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Good job, Santa Rosa, CA:

Santa Rosa passes cyclist protection law
By JULIE JOHNSON
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT
Published: Tuesday, July 9, 2013 at 8:31 p.m. Last Modified: Wednesday,
July 10, 2013 at 8:22 a.m.

Cyclists, walkers, joggers and skate boarders in the city of Santa Rosa now
have a clear path in civil court to sue a person who assaults or harasses
them.

The Santa Rosa City Council voted unanimously Tuesday to adopt a
vulnerable user protection ordinance aimed at deterring dangerous and
harassing behavior.

Councilwoman Erin Carlstrom said the ordinance emphasizes that Santa Rosa
is a safe place for bikers and walkers while empowering residents to
defend their own rights I'm thrilled.

The city joined Sebastopol and Sonoma County, which also adopted measures
that establish a way for people defined as vulnerable users to seek civil
court damages against a driver, cyclist, pedestrian or anyone who harasses
or assaults them.

Council members in Healdsburg and Windsor rejected similar measures.

Gary Helfrich, executive director of the Sonoma County Bicycle Coalition,
said that it was important for Santa Rosa to adopt the ordinance because
about half of the harassment complaints the group receives originate in the
city.

This ordinance goes a great length toward sending a message, Helfrich
said.





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Old 07-10-2013, 05:23 PM   #2816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post

I'll say it typically isn't the cyclist 'causing an accident.' Typically its impatient car drivers that don't stop and think about their actions that cause accidents.

...and guess who loses? Yeah, it isn't the person in the X tons of steel with seatbelts on.
Yes, but if a cyclist thoughtlessly "takes the lane" without warning in front of traffic moving at speed, forcing drivers to slow suddenly and significantly causing a multi vehicle accident................and the cyclist wasn't touched.

There's a big difference between "taking the lane" when clear, and "taking the lane away" from moving traffic.
It's no different than the pedestrian that steps in front of moving vehicles at a cross walk, vulnerability is not license to act irresponsibly because others may pay the price for it.

Sometimes cyclists need to stop or slow and wait too.
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Old 07-10-2013, 05:33 PM   #2817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windmill View Post
Yes, but if a cyclist thoughtlessly "takes the lane" without warning in front of traffic moving at speed, forcing drivers to slow suddenly and significantly causing a multi vehicle accident................and the cyclist wasn't touched.

There's a big difference between "taking the lane" when clear, and "taking the lane away" from moving traffic.
It's no different than the pedestrian that steps in front of moving vehicles at a cross walk, vulnerability is not license to act irresponsibly because others may pay the price for it.

Sometimes cyclists need to stop or slow and wait too.
Unless he was riding in a true bike lane.. I mean a dedicated lane with little painted bicycles in it, not the shoulder to the right of a white line,,,it was probably his lane to start with.. he wasn't "taking" anything.
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Old 07-10-2013, 05:49 PM   #2818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrt10x View Post
Unless he was riding in a true bike lane.. I mean a dedicated lane with little painted bicycles in it, not the shoulder to the right of a white line,,,it was his lane to start with.. he wasn't "taking" anything.
fixt

In the example above, it still wasn't the cyclist's fault that the cars were following too closely

M
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Gummee! screwed with this post 07-10-2013 at 05:54 PM
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Old 07-10-2013, 05:56 PM   #2819
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrt10x View Post
Unless he was riding in a true bike lane.. I mean a dedicated lane with little painted bicycles in it, not the shoulder to the right of a white line,,,it was probably his lane to start with.. he wasn't "taking" anything.
So your saying a cyclist can change lanes from the shoulder to travel lane without yielding to traffic? That's insane, no vehicle may merge without yielding.
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Old 07-10-2013, 06:07 PM   #2820
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
fixt

In the example above, it still wasn't the cyclist's fault that the cars were following too closely

M
What fault was the lead car's?

Should he have run over the cyclist because he was being tailgated?
Was it his fault a cyclist changed lanes without signaling while traveling significantly slower than traffic?

Improper lane change, failure to yield, can a cyclist do no wrong "taking a lane"?

"taking a lane" is a legal and proper action for a cyclist, but its not an unconditional right of way to be exercised without warning or discretion.
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