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Old 07-13-2013, 07:47 AM   #2881
DAKEZ
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Originally Posted by Vertical C View Post
He said he wasnt speeding. Cant you read?
Key word "said" If he could not stop in time then he either needs to stop riding (because he can't control his bike well enough to ride) or he was indeed SPEEDING.

Or at least not paying attention.
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Old 07-13-2013, 09:20 AM   #2882
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Originally Posted by Vertical C View Post
He said he wasnt speeding. Cant you read?

Do you also tell bicyclists taht they are at fault when they get car doored because they should be able to stop?
I must agree with Gummee and the others, if you cant avoid a stationary object in the road, you're over riding/driving your line of sight or skill level.

Automatic fail.

But like others, and I have said, stopping in the middle of the road is stupid too.

Also an automatic fail.
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Old 07-13-2013, 09:54 AM   #2883
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This is what cyclits do to people who they think caused a crash.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1...Tour-de-France

Apparentlyyou better be able to stop.
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Old 07-13-2013, 03:25 PM   #2884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertical C View Post
He said he wasnt speeding. Cant you read?

Quote:
Originally Posted by grelcar View Post
I came around a fairly tight curve at or below the speed limit......

Anytime someone says the above, they have no idea what their speed was. It is a lie, the truth would be to say they don't know if asked and remain silent if not.


People screw up, but very few try to make it right.
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Old 07-13-2013, 03:48 PM   #2885
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Originally Posted by Vertical C View Post
This is what cyclits do to people who they think caused a crash.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1...Tour-de-France

Apparentlyyou better be able to stop.


That is what a SPECTATOR did to a racing cyclist on a closed course. The racing cyclist had a racing incident (that some people viewed as wrong) that was judged by the racing authority after viewing video footage and talking to those involved .. less than 12 hour later... and no action was taken .. judged as a RACING INCIDENT.

The spectator was taken away by the police.

Apparently you 'd better be able to behave and accept official judgements.
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Old 07-13-2013, 06:32 PM   #2886
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Nevermind

Vertical C screwed with this post 07-13-2013 at 08:29 PM
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Old 07-14-2013, 06:07 AM   #2887
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Originally Posted by Vertical C View Post
Of course I do, just like i avoid the collision from cyclists. However I shouldnt have to avoid people riding around with scant respect for the law, and I dont understand how you can defend the behaviour.
Read your local cycling-related laws. Betcha that the cyclists are obeying the spirit if not the letter more often than you'd like to think.

Quote:
It is simple, if you are going to cross a dividing line into another lane then you should make sure the path is clear for the minimum of three seconds.
You making this stuff up? 3sec? Seriously?! If I tried that on a bicycle I'd be stopped (and in your way!) for much longer than anyone would be willing to put up with. As it is, I get people that don't want to 'get stuck behind that cyclist' coming up to the stop sign, much less wait for me to have a 3sec window available to merge.

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It is probably the reason for a lot of cyclist deaths the vagrancy of this rule as it appears to be commonplace. If i had to pul out from a kerb I would wait for the cyclist to go past I am just asking for the same respect.
According to the safety officer for the PW Co. fire department I ran into at the LBS the other day, they've had zero people run down from behind on bicycles. They've had many more people hit from the side (as in going across an intersection) or turned in front of (SMIDSY or right hooks). I can see if I can't track the guy down and get better stats, but for the most part, the cyclist 'merging' to his/her left is a non-issue around here.

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Old 07-14-2013, 06:36 AM   #2888
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Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
Read your local cycling-related laws. Betcha that the cyclists are obeying the spirit if not the letter more often than you'd like to think.

You making this stuff up? 3sec? Seriously?! If I tried that on a bicycle I'd be stopped (and in your way!) for much longer than anyone would be willing to put up with. As it is, I get people that don't want to 'get stuck behind that cyclist' coming up to the stop sign, much less wait for me to have a 3sec window available to merge.

According to the safety officer for the PW Co. fire department I ran into at the LBS the other day, they've had zero people run down from behind on bicycles. They've had many more people hit from the side (as in going across an intersection) or turned in front of (SMIDSY or right hooks). I can see if I can't track the guy down and get better stats, but for the most part, the cyclist 'merging' to his/her left is a non-issue around here.

M
I do know the road rules. There is no rule that allows cyclists to change lanes with no regard to traffic in the other lane. Why would there be? If a cyclist was in the otehr lane would you expect them to give way to someone wanting to change lanes.

3 seconds is a standard safe following distance, leaving less room than that is foolish. Thats how much i leave when pulling out on traffic (including cyclists). I expect the same from cyclists, what is your rush, if you have to wait for a bit safety of all road users should take precedence over you travelling at your desired speed.

I had a cyclist pull into my lane the other day, i swerved around him, then he yells at me because apparently motorcycles dont get to use the whole lane (even though the only reason I was so close is because i was about half a second from him when he swerved into my lane with no signal I didnt actually want to risk both our lives but he gave no warning or time).. I seriously doubt that there are no side swipes, why do they go on about leaving a metre? That is a sideswipe but they are educating the wrong group.

Vertical C screwed with this post 07-14-2013 at 06:55 AM
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Old 07-14-2013, 06:56 AM   #2889
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I have an ongoing project in a rural area that is frequented by cyclists. Along their riding route there are numerous places where the roads drops below the pavement horizon enough to hide them from following autos. I have learned when I see their parked cars at a church they are likely to be on the road, but others drive 50 to 55 mph and come up on these riders unexpectedly.

I don't know what the law says but if you are riding where you can disappear on the highway from those following you, you shouldn't ride two abreast, out in the middle of the road. Before I became fully aware of the riders, I had two instances where I nearly hit a rider because there is no place to go if you happen to meet another vehicle at the time you come up behind the cyclists.

The place I am working is right beside the road. It is near a military installation and trucks use the road quite a bit. I often see young men and women riding by, side by side having a casual conversation and the place I am working is one of the blind spots.

Just because the law gives you a right doesn't mean it makes sense to exercise that right at all times. Protect yourself and leave room for the cage to get around.
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Old 07-14-2013, 07:34 AM   #2890
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MR. NUSSEY (Pontefract) said he wished to protest against the great speed at which motor-cars were driven. He thought the danger would be increased and not decreased when motor-cars came more generally into use, and he urged the right hon. Gentleman to meet this danger in time. It had been suggested that there should be a sphere of danger and another sphere of comparative safety, but he thought those in the danger sphere would have a very bad time indeed. It was no use being able to recognise the number of a motor-car after they had been nearly killed, and the only effective way to deal with the question was to make cars illegal which ran at more than about fifteen or twenty miles an hour, or whatever speed was fixed as reasonable. He hoped something of this kind would be done, otherwise what was now a great nuisance might become a great danger.
Link

Clearly the solution is for everyone to drive/ride/pedal at 15mph or under always.
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Old 07-14-2013, 10:29 AM   #2891
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Originally Posted by Center-stand View Post
I have an ongoing project in a rural area that is frequented by cyclists. Along their riding route there are numerous places where the roads drops below the pavement horizon enough to hide them from following autos. I have learned when I see their parked cars at a church they are likely to be on the road, but others drive 50 to 55 mph and come up on these riders unexpectedly.

I don't know what the law says but if you are riding where you can disappear on the highway from those following you, you shouldn't ride two abreast, out in the middle of the road. Before I became fully aware of the riders, I had two instances where I nearly hit a rider because there is no place to go if you happen to meet another vehicle at the time you come up behind the cyclists.

The place I am working is right beside the road. It is near a military installation and trucks use the road quite a bit. I often see young men and women riding by, side by side having a casual conversation and the place I am working is one of the blind spots.

Just because the law gives you a right doesn't mean it makes sense to exercise that right at all times. Protect yourself and leave room for the cage to get around.
...and there's a difference between say cyclists on the road and a tractor? ...a mail truck? ...a farm animal? ...rocks? ...a downed tree?

Why single out cyclists?

If you come over the crest of a hill/around a blind corner and don't have time to avoid any of the above, it isn't the fault of whatever you're encountering.

You need to look at the face staring back out of your bathroom mirror and recognize that 'shit happens' when you're on the road and its up to you to not outdrive your sight distances. Yes, that may mean slowing down in corners/over hills.

If you're constantly surprised at something 'appearing in your path' its says to me that you need some RTR on your driving skills.

...AND... if you're in a situation where you 'happen to meet another vehicle' you're obviously passing in the wrong spot. Stop and think. If I'm going around this obstacle (rock, cow, tractor, cyclist, whathaveyou) am I going to have enough time/sight distance to get back over if I didn't see something coming?

If the answer's no, wait till its safe.

Easy concept. Nicht war?

That 'happen to meet another vehicle' thing gets my goat. You don't get a pass to automatically pass another vehicle in unsafe spots. That applies as much to someone slowing to turn into a driveway as it does a cyclist JRA.

You wouldn't pass someone slowing/stopping and dropping little Jr off at daycare into oncoming traffic so WhyTF would you do that to someone riding a bicycle?!

M
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:22 AM   #2892
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When a bicycle must use the travel lane on main roads where legal and reasonable, any vehicle coming up on them should slow and pass when safe. If traffic starts backing up behind the cyclist, then they should pull clear at the first reasonable opportunity..
A Vehicle of any type merging or entering a roadway in a way that forces traffic to react to the vehicle in a significant way is always wrong. Waiting a few extra seconds for a safe opportunity is not an unreasonable expectation. Vehicles may still have to slow, but not as an evasive maneuver.

It seems so simple, but unfortunately a few cyclists and motorists find excuses to not do the right thing, turning it into a guessing game, and pissing contest.




Yesterday I was on a 35 mph 2 lane levy road with no shoulder that parallels a river. Coming the opposite direction was a cyclist "riding wide" with about 8-10 vehicles backed up behind him. He chose to not pull clear on a side road as the majority of cyclists do on this popular cycling road, and cars started passing him.
As fate would have it a woman in a SUV proceeded to pass after the window for safe passing had closed and threaded the needle between me and the cyclist.

So what I encountered was an epically stupid driver being reckless and irresponsible endangering others, a thoughtless cyclist pressing his his "rights" too far without exercising his responsibilities, and I came close to being a hood ornament.

This is the first time in years the choices of a cyclist have had a significant safety impact on me, and the cyclists failure was a minor one, but he obviously was aware he was creating a situation yet chose to not mitigate it. After failing to pull clear, his choice to "ride wide" rather than keep right did not deter vehicles from passing him, but it did slow them and increase the time and distance needed to pass.

A reminder that if you feel compelled to try controlling the actions of others, you might want to at least reconsider what your options and responsibilities are.
Questionable choices can escalate into a dangerous situation..



When I saw the cyclist pass the side road with a line of cars behind him I slowed up, I had a feeling................
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:25 AM   #2893
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Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
...and there's a difference between say cyclists on the road and a tractor? ...a mail truck? ...a farm animal? ...rocks? ...a downed tree?

Why single out cyclists?
Some people have a hard time with the basics, always ride/drive within your line of sight and skill level.
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:35 AM   #2894
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Originally Posted by windmill View Post
Some people have a hard time with the basics, always ride/drive within your line of sight and skill level.
Evidently!

98% of this thread can be summed up with: 'so there I was, driving too fast for conditions and tried to pass some cyclists in an unsafe spot. They're assholes for being in the road!'

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Old 07-14-2013, 12:24 PM   #2895
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Why single out cyclists?
Most likely because one or two cyclists did something to piss them off...ten plus years ago.


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