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Old 07-15-2013, 02:32 PM   #2941
Michael
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Originally Posted by windmill View Post
This past saturday I encountered a situation where a cyclist taking the lane didn't work, and cars passed anyway. He made some poor decisions such as not pulling over on a side road to clear backed up traffic, and he obstinately stayed wide after cars started passing him, but that was not a legitimate excuse for the drivers to press the pass, or the woman in the suv to do a dangerous pass.
People sometimes make bad decisions through miscalculation, ignorance, or arrogance, its our responsibility to be prepared to compensate for their errors safely.

Work, play, act of nature, It doesn't matter whats on the road or why, its your responsibility and a matter of self preservation to always ride/drive within your line of sight and skill level, there is absolutely no excuse to not do so.

How can any sane, reasonable, responsible person question this?

Check any of the MVA safety stats - as the difference between relative vehicle speeds increases the risk of accident goes up. Most MVAs use 15 MPH relative difference as the point at which the safety risk becomes unacceptable. To my mind, a bike going 20 MPH on a road where the speed limit is 35 is an unacceptable safety risk. Bikes should only be allowed to "own" the lane on roads where the speed limit is 25 MPH or less.

I know, I know, now all sorts of guys will respond theat they ride at 30+ MPH, but from what I have seen your average bike rider can't sustain that speed for long.......
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:38 PM   #2942
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Originally Posted by Michael View Post
Check any of the MVA safety stats - as the difference between relative vehicle speeds increases the risk of accident goes up. Most MVAs use 15 MPH relative difference as the point at which the safety risk becomes unacceptable. To my mind, a bike going 20 MPH on a road where the speed limit is 35 is an unacceptable safety risk. Bikes should only be allowed to "own" the lane on roads where the speed limit is 25 MPH or less.

I know, I know, now all sorts of guys will respond theat they ride at 30+ MPH, but from what I have seen your average bike rider can't sustain that speed for long.......
At last somebody that makes sense.They Do have minimum speed limits on highways. They should have them everywhere. Or like they do with golf cart allowed roads. Michael for president!

joexr screwed with this post 07-15-2013 at 02:44 PM
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Old 07-15-2013, 03:29 PM   #2943
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Well, I'm getting flamed from both sides.................

If both cyclists, and motorists would use some common sense, practice a little common courtesy, exercise a little patience, and make a reasonable attempt to follow the rules and laws of the road, it would be a non issue.

But no, some folks just have to have everything their way, all the time..............................
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Old 07-15-2013, 03:44 PM   #2944
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To my mind, a bike going 20 MPH on a road where the speed limit is 35 is an unacceptable safety risk. Bikes should only be allowed to "own" the lane on roads where the speed limit is 25 MPH or less.
.
That's just silly, I live on a 35mph road, and cant imagine it being unsafe for cyclists.


Anybody who can't share the road safely here, shouldn't operate a motor vehicle.
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Old 07-15-2013, 03:57 PM   #2945
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They need bicycle licences for adults and bicycle tags. Equal rights and all that. Then they could be reported and kept in line like the motor vehicles. You can get a DUI on a bicycle. Why not go the whole nine yards. No more anonymous bullshit.
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Old 07-15-2013, 03:58 PM   #2946
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[QUOTE=windmill;21872951]That's just silly, I live on a 35mph road, and cant imagine it being unsafe for cyclists.]

I dunno, at least a few traffic engineers would not agree with you..... Here is something from Wikipedia. Maryland's MVA publishes a similar crash curve chart.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_curve

"In 1964, Solomon researched the relationship between average speed and collision rates of automobiles and plotted the results. While others have attempted to quantify the relationship between average speed and collision rates, Solomon's work was both "the earliest and best known". Solomon conducted a comprehensive study of more than 10,000 collision-involved drivers and their vehicles and how other roadway, driver, and vehicle characteristics affect the probability of being involved in a crash. He found that the probability of being involved in a crash per vehicle-mile as a function of on-road vehicle speeds follows a U-shaped curve with speed values around the median speed having the lowest probability of being in a crash. Although typically called the Solomon curve, the U-shaped curve has also been referred to as the Crash Risk Curve.
Subsequent research

In 1968 Julie Cirillo conducted a similar study of 2,000 vehicles on interstate highways that addressed speed variation’s impact on crashes that involved two or more vehicles. The Cirillo data represented a U-shaped curve similar to the Solomon curve. The Research Triangle Institute conducted a study in 1970 where data was collected on 114 crashes involving 216 vehicles on a state highway in Indiana to address these concerns by (1) combining automated, embedded speed-monitoring stations with trained on-scene crash investigators, and (2) distinguishing data on vehicles slowing to negotiate a turn from vehicles moving slowly in the flow of traffic. Reporting on these results in 1971, academics West and Dunn confirmed the findings of Solomon and Cirillo, but found that crashes involving turning vehicles accounted for 44 percent of all crashes observed in the study and that excluding these crashes from the analysis greatly attenuated the factors that created the U-shape of the Solomon curve. In 1991, Fildes, Rumbold, and Leening collected self-reported crash data from 707 motorists in Australia with fewer than 200 reporting they had been in a collision but, unlike Solomon and Cirillo, the researchers found no relationship between slower speeds and increased crash involvement. Notwithstanding the many studies over the years, in testimony before the Ohio Senate Highways and Transportation Committee on June 10, 2003, Julie Cirillo, Former Assistant Administrator and Chief Safety Officer for the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA), testified that "up to the present time there has been no evidence to alter Solomon’s original finding that variance from the mean operating speed is a major contributor to accidents".
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:27 PM   #2947
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They need bicycle licences for adults and bicycle tags. Equal rights and all that. Then they could be reported and kept in line like the motor vehicles. You can get a DUI on a bicycle. Why not go the whole nine yards. No more anonymous bullshit.
How many plated vehicles do YOU see in a day breaking the law? How many of them do you report?

Would work the same for bicycles and pedestrians.
If you want plates on bicycle then you should also want plates on pedestrians. And of course they will break the 'law' as much as other plated vehicles currently do.

Plating bicycle won't stop law breakers, the law breaking happens with plated vehicles now. Saying you'll report them does not happen, as you don't do it now. It is just another point to pick on.
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:33 PM   #2948
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How many plated vehicles do YOU see in a day breaking the law? How many of them do you report?

Would work the same for bicycles and pedestrians.
If you want plates on bicycle then you should also want plates on pedestrians. And of course they will break the 'law' as much as other plated vehicles currently do.

Plating bicycle won't stop law breakers, the law breaking happens with plated vehicles now. Saying you'll report them does not happen, as you don't do it now. It is just another point to pick on.
Good , then remember that. It may save you from me having to shove you off the road.
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:34 PM   #2949
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Are you suggesting we should all slow down to 12-15 mph to go around blind corners or cross blind hills, in case a cyclist is there??
If your going blind into something where you cannot stop if something (rock, tree, road subsidence, tractor, bicycle, cow etc) appears then YOU are unsafe and should be going SLOWER. Here it would be called 'driving in a manner dangerous'.
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Old 07-15-2013, 06:31 PM   #2950
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Windmill, no flames from me, I am in full agreement (at least with your recent posts )
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Old 07-15-2013, 06:57 PM   #2951
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I dunno, at least a few traffic engineers would not agree with you..... Here is something from Wikipedia. Maryland's MVA publishes a similar crash curve chart.
There's a huge difference between "increased risk" and "unacceptable risk".

Riding a motorcycle is riskier than driving a car, yet we still do it, same with cyclists.

We live in a physical world of compromises, the esoteric rhetoric of statistical engineers is a lame pattern for life. Common sense man, we all rode bicycles as kids, many millions of adults continue to do so, and have done it as long as there has been cars, its not that big a deal.
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Old 07-15-2013, 07:03 PM   #2952
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Good , then remember that. It may save you from me having to shove you off the road.
For someone who typically rides 3 times the speed limit, I would think the .100th of a second it takes you to pass a cyclist would go without issue.







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Old 07-15-2013, 07:09 PM   #2953
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For someone who typically rides 3 times the speed limit, I would think the .100th of a second it takes you to pass a cyclist would go without issue.







Only thru nice twisties , then it's 10 over.
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Old 07-15-2013, 07:30 PM   #2954
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Only thru nice twisties , then it's 10 over.
"Nice twisties" in Florida?

Road maps down there look like graph paper.
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Old 07-15-2013, 08:33 PM   #2955
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"Nice twisties" in Florida?

Road maps down there look like graph paper.
Maybe in the suburbs or you're looking at longitude and latitude.
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