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Old 09-26-2013, 08:28 AM   #3481
PAULIBIKER
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota View Post
i have the data of what i witness riding around this city every day. that's what the question i was responding to asked. i do not have a statistical study. i don't even know if any such study has ever been done.

as for the kind of issues i'm talking about, go back and read the last several pages (or just pick out my posts if you do not want to read them all).

in a nutshell...

running stop signs when there are cars at the cross street already stopped at the stop sign. passing cars that are stopped at red lights on the right, then running the red light, then holding everyone up when the cars catch back up to them (then the cars eventually get around...and then at the next light, the bike illegally passes them again and runs the red light again and the whole thing gets repeated). passing cars on the right when the cars are waiting at a stop sign/red light for the chance to turn right (and then running that stop sign/red light). riding the wrong way down one-way streets. jumping on and off sidewalks like they are another lane, etc. etc.

if you live in a city and do not see this stuff happening, either the bicyclists in your city behave quite differently from many of the bicyclists around here (good for them) or you've got blinders on.

Looks to me like there should have been a


IMO

in front of your comments............
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Old 09-26-2013, 08:30 AM   #3482
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Originally Posted by fastdildo View Post
Cyclist are able to ride single file on the side, which would give drivers an opportunity to pass, but instead, choose to plug up the road. Do cyclist really need to ride side by side holding their boyfriends hand? As far as semi's and farm tractors? The world wakes up hungry every day. If wasn't for these guys, life would suk. Exactly what contribution did the cyclist make to society today? Oh yah, right, they made my ass red.


Riding side-by-side does several things. First of all, in most states, it's completely legal. It increases the visibility factor that cyclists presents to motorists also which gives them pause when it comes to passing.

As far as contributions, since when did that become a factor in road use? Do you have to justify your use of the road? Who becomes judge and jury?

I bicycle to work occasionally - based on your "educated" post, I'm certain my contributions to society are greater than yours. Sorry about your red ass. I won't ask - you don't have to tell.
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Old 09-26-2013, 08:35 AM   #3483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAULIBIKER View Post
Looks to me like there should have been a


IMO

in front of your comments............
observations are not opinions.
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Old 09-26-2013, 08:40 AM   #3484
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Remember bicyclists are a lot like you.............

Many enjoy riding motorcycles, most are married, & have kids that are expecting them to come home in one piece.

Is a little tolerance too much to ask of anybody when is comes to anything?
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Old 09-26-2013, 08:47 AM   #3485
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Originally Posted by fastdadio View Post
Cyclist are able to ride single file on the side, which would give drivers an opportunity to pass, but instead, choose to plug up the road. Do cyclist really need to ride side by side holding their boyfriends hand? As far as semi's and farm tractors? The world wakes up hungry every day. If wasn't for these guys, life would suk. Exactly what contribution did the cyclist make to society today? Oh yah, right, they made my ass red.


I don't ride w/ people who won't maintain single file-it puts everyone at risk. Two breast may present a more imposing obstacle for motorists, but a single file "peloton" of 4 or more does the same.

The world does wake up hungry; my old cycling buddy who drove for Sysco Foods would agree w/ you.



Again- angry at that cyclist in front of you? Imagine instead he is you or your loved one; how do you behave?
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Old 09-26-2013, 08:49 AM   #3486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota View Post
i have the data of what i witness riding around this city every day. that's what the question i was responding to asked. i do not have a statistical study. i don't even know if any such study has ever been done.

as for the kind of issues i'm talking about, go back and read the last several pages (or just pick out my posts if you do not want to read them all).

in a nutshell...

running stop signs when there are cars at the cross street already stopped at the stop sign. passing cars that are stopped at red lights on the right, then running the red light, then holding everyone up when the cars catch back up to them (then the cars eventually get around...and then at the next light, the bike illegally passes them again and runs the red light again and the whole thing gets repeated). passing cars on the right when the cars are waiting at a stop sign/red light for the chance to turn right (and then running that stop sign/red light). riding the wrong way down one-way streets. jumping on and off sidewalks like they are another lane, etc. etc.

if you live in a city and do not see this stuff happening, either the bicyclists in your city behave quite differently from many of the bicyclists around here (good for them) or you've got blinders on.
I ride about 100 miles a week in the sixth largest city in the US. I rarely see what you describe. Rarely. That sounds like the "working poor riders", kids or you're exaggerating.

I'll give you the benefit of doubt but if they ride as you describe, how many accidents are there daily blamed on cyclists? Most cyclists I know certainly don't jump up and down curbs, run red lights, etc.
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Old 09-26-2013, 08:50 AM   #3487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAULIBIKER View Post
Remember bicyclists are a lot like you.............

Many enjoy riding motorcycles, most are married, & have kids that are expecting them to come home in one piece.

Is a little tolerance too much to ask of anybody when is comes to anything?
Apparently.
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Old 09-26-2013, 08:51 AM   #3488
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Originally Posted by PAULIBIKER View Post
Remember bicyclists are a lot like Is a little tolerance too much to ask of anybody when is comes to anything?
tolerance of what, though?

i absolutely tolerate bicycles on the street when the cyclist rides responsibly. no problem at all.

entitled, me-first behavior that causes problems for others and even puts others in danger should never be tolerated, though.
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Old 09-26-2013, 08:55 AM   #3489
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Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota View Post
observations are not opinions.

It's also not accurate data. Maybe you see 90% of the crap cyclists do, then it's really not a big problem. Maybe you only see 10%, then it's a big problem.

After 25+ years of riding bicycle I can tell you one thing for sure. Those guys that do that crap are on borrowed time. It's not a matter of "if" something happens, it's "when".

Also, I rarely ride in group but ride it the right tire lane(unless there's a bike lane). If you ride on the shoulder people think they can pass you without slowing down. In the right tire lane you are "seen". It's happened too many times a cyclist is being considerate by riding on the shoulder and gets taken out by a car going 60 MPH.
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Old 09-26-2013, 08:56 AM   #3490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k7 View Post
I ride about 100 miles a week in the sixth largest city in the US. I rarely see what you describe. Rarely. That sounds like the "working poor riders", kids or you're exaggerating.
most of the bicyclists i'm talking about are not out riding recreationally. they are people who get around on bicycle. i've definitely noticed that you can generally count on bicyclists who are dressed like lance armstrong to behave reasonably. bicyclists who are dressed in the latest hipster/bike messenger wannabee fashions, on the other hand, you can generally count on to do the stuff i have described. around here, the hipster/bike messenger wannabees greatly outnumber the recreational riders on a day-to-day basis.

i don't doubt that your experience in a different city is different. i'm sure the commuter bicycle culture varies from place to place.

Quote:
I'll give you the benefit of doubt but if they ride as you describe, how many accidents are there daily blamed on cyclists?
i don't know.

Quote:
Most cyclists I know certainly don't jump up and down curbs, run red lights, etc.
come to pittsburgh and ride around the east end or southside of the city sometime. you'll see it plenty.

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Old 09-26-2013, 09:03 AM   #3491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAULIBIKER View Post
It's also not accurate data.
it is not statistically valid data, i agree.

Quote:
If you ride on the shoulder people think they can pass you without slowing down. In the right tire lane you are "seen". It's happened too many times a cyclist is being considerate by riding on the shoulder and gets taken out by a car going 60 MPH.
i agree and sympathize with those issues. as i mentioned in an earlier post, i think gumee does have valid complaints about motorists passing bicycles unsafely. i do not pass bicyclists unsafely (though it is easier to pass safely on a motorcycle than in a car)...i have just as much disdain for motorists who do that as i have for bicyclists who ride in the city in the ways i have described.

but the 60mph thing shows that we are focusing on two different issues. i'm talking about city streets where no one gets close to 60mph.

anyway, my comments all started as a response to the question of "why do people hate bicyclists?" and like i said, around here, it is often because of the way some bicyclists ride...it's not the recreational/exercise riders, it's the commuter riders. and then some people *unfairly* lump all bicyclists in with them. if you truly want to understand why many of the people who hate bicyclists do so, that is often the reason. (i don't hate bicyclists, btw. i hate...er, that's too strong of a word--i find very annoying--selfish assholes with a sense of entitlement, on a bicycle, on a motorcycle, in a car, on foot, doesn't matter.)

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Old 09-26-2013, 09:04 AM   #3492
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Originally Posted by PAULIBIKER View Post
Is a little tolerance too much to ask of anybody when is comes to anything?
It is always easier to be tolerant of others who are interested in equally sharing the road, following the rules of the road.

This includes waiting in queues for stop signs and lights in states where lane splitting is not legal.

This includes acknowledging that a bicycle may be impeding traffic and take steps to be a considerate sharer of the roads. (in many states a vehicle holding up traffic is obliged by statute to pull over and let the traffic by. Rarely does this happen with cars, MC or bicycles, but as long as we are talking about following the rules ...)

This includes approaching stop signs with the intent to stop, rather than assuming there is some loophole that allows a bicyclist to read the mind of the driver who is accustomed to having bicycles run stops and wants to wait and see before moving through the intersection.

In most cases you get what you give. Bicyclists who are considerate probably have less impact than those who are so ego-centric they believe their Strava numbers are more important than being an exemplary road user.

Tolerance works both ways.

Motorcyclists with bad habits give the rest of us a hurdle to overcome in the eyes of the public. Likewise bicyclists with bad habits affect the opinions of the drivers around them.

How would things be different if all road users behaved as if they are ambassadors, by setting the example they expect of others?
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:31 AM   #3493
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Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
It is always easier to be tolerant of others who are interested in equally sharing the road, following the rules of the road.
Totally agree................

My tolerance for stupid people is at a all time low, but it is still there. Lucky for them because I would have ran over 2 joggers, 1 cyclist, & spun out 3 cagers just on my way to work today.......
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:38 AM   #3494
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You know for someone claiming to be 'just making observations' LittleRedToyota seems to be cocksure about profiling 'commuters/hipsters'.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:05 AM   #3495
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Originally Posted by YamaGeek View Post
You know for someone claiming to be 'just making observations' LittleRedToyota seems to be cocksure about profiling 'commuters/hipsters'.
note the use of the word "generally".

observing trends is not profiling.
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