ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-27-2013, 03:25 AM   #3526
filmfan
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Location: live free or die
Oddometer: 520
So, in regard to objections this filtering thing...

If a bicycle comes up an a line of cars queued up at a light he is supposed to stop next to the last car in line?

Or, he is supposed to move to the middle of the lane and stop behind the car, then move to the side when the car in front moves so that he isn't blocking the rear car?

Or, is it more reasonable and safer for everyone involved for the bicycle to filter past the cars just like they've been filtering past him for the previous mile?
filmfan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2013, 04:55 AM   #3527
Dranrab Luap
E-Tarded
 
Dranrab Luap's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Oddometer: 29,884
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota View Post
nope.

you are doing an excellent job of pointing out your own selfishness all on your own.



rationalization doesn't make cutting line into not cutting line.



optimize for you...at the expense of others.
Who said that? There are times I can do things on a bicycle that I couldn't in a car or on a moto, and it serves the best interest of all involved.
Dranrab Luap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2013, 04:56 AM   #3528
Dranrab Luap
E-Tarded
 
Dranrab Luap's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Oddometer: 29,884
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota View Post
actually i do have experience riding bicycles in the city.

but i don't need that experience to understand that the behavior i have been describing in this thread is "me first". it's blatantly obvious.

what "greater purpose" do you propose such behavior is serving?
Rider safety, better overall traffic flow, greater convenience for cagers.
Dranrab Luap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2013, 04:59 AM   #3529
Dranrab Luap
E-Tarded
 
Dranrab Luap's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Oddometer: 29,884
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonU View Post
I find it funny how divisive this topic is. It seems like this is mostly an American thing. Sort of like how our public transportation is pretty mediocre. The time I spent in Europe I got the impression that the motorists were much more tolerant of bicyclists sharing lanes (and I'm referring to roads w/o bike lanes or paths running beside them.

To be honest I'm surprised with some of the opinions I've been seeing. But I guess it shouldn't. I used to do a lot of street riding and to say that a group in a pace line is dangerous imo is not accurate. Most all pace lines I've seen outside a race leave enough space to have room for error.

That said though it does irritate me when I see a bicyclist that obeys traffic laws until it benefits him to use the sidewalk or a xwalk. A bicyclist making his way to the front doesn't bother me since he is using space I can't, just like a motorcycle doesn't bother me. The only reason a bike holds up traffic in the stop light scenario is due to motorists not having much experience in dealing with bikes on the road
Incorrect.
Dranrab Luap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2013, 04:59 AM   #3530
JimVonBaden
"Cool" Aid!
 
JimVonBaden's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Alexandria, VA
Oddometer: 48,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by filmfan View Post
So, in regard to objections this filtering thing...

If a bicycle comes up an a line of cars queued up at a light he is supposed to stop next to the last car in line?

Or, he is supposed to move to the middle of the lane and stop behind the car, then move to the side when the car in front moves so that he isn't blocking the rear car?

Or, is it more reasonable and safer for everyone involved for the bicycle to filter past the cars just like they've been filtering past him for the previous mile?
I would say, in slow moving urban traffic, that bicycle filtering is generally fine so long as the bicycles moves at the speed of traffic and do not impede traffic after the light changes.

If the speed of traffic is say 35mph and all the bicycles filter to the front then hold back all the cars because they can't keep up the traffic pace, then it is a selfish move by the bicycles. It is all about common sense and fairness.

Jim
JimVonBaden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2013, 05:08 AM   #3531
Dranrab Luap
E-Tarded
 
Dranrab Luap's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Oddometer: 29,884
Quote:
Originally Posted by filmfan View Post
So, in regard to objections this filtering thing...

If a bicycle comes up an a line of cars queued up at a light he is supposed to stop next to the last car in line?

Or, he is supposed to move to the middle of the lane and stop behind the car, then move to the side when the car in front moves so that he isn't blocking the rear car?

Or, is it more reasonable and safer for everyone involved for the bicycle to filter past the cars just like they've been filtering past him for the previous mile?
The bicyclist should place himself in the lane in the cue and behave vehicularly all the way through the intersection. This is a time (a busy intersection with lots of road users in close proximity) when behaving predictably serves the best interest of all road users. A bicyclist should be able to accelerate well enough not to "block" the traffic to his rear. Do not move to the right side oif the lane. That's begging for a right hook. Then once he clears the intersection, if he can move FRAP to allow vehicles to pass him, then that's the way it should work.

Do you feel safe pedaling within door zones when you go to the front of the line? Whose fault would it be if you got doored?
Dranrab Luap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2013, 07:01 AM   #3532
bwalsh
Beastly Adventurer
 
bwalsh's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: Hell town
Oddometer: 10,647
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
It is all about common sense and fairness.

Jim
Unfortunately, both of these are in short supply these days.
__________________
2004 XR650L / 2001 R1150GS
NWVA TAG NWVA TAG MAP RTE THREAD & IN LIST



bwalsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2013, 07:39 AM   #3533
LittleRedToyota
Yinzer
 
LittleRedToyota's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Oddometer: 2,223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dranrab Luap View Post
Rider safety, better overall traffic flow, greater convenience for cagers.
running stop signs when there is someone waiting at the cross street impedes traffic flow and causes inconvenience for cagers.

filtering to the front of the line at red lights, running the red light, and then holding everyone up again half a block later when the light turns green and the cars catch back up impedes traffic flow and causes inconvenience for cagers.

there is no way that stuff leads to better traffic flow or greater convenience for anyone other than the bicyclist. quite the opposite.

it also is often more dangerous, not safer, for the bicyclists. how on earth could running a stop sign when there is cross traffic be safer?
LittleRedToyota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2013, 07:41 AM   #3534
LittleRedToyota
Yinzer
 
LittleRedToyota's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Oddometer: 2,223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dranrab Luap View Post
Who said that? There are times I can do things on a bicycle that I couldn't in a car or on a moto, and it serves the best interest of all involved.
but the post i quoted was referring to the practice of filtering to the front at red lights and then holding up traffic.

in other posts, you seem to agree that doing that is selfish behavior that does not serve the best interest of all involved.

remember, i am not talking about bicycles in general. i am talking about specific behavior.
LittleRedToyota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2013, 07:44 AM   #3535
LittleRedToyota
Yinzer
 
LittleRedToyota's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Oddometer: 2,223
Quote:
Originally Posted by filmfan View Post
Or, is it more reasonable and safer for everyone involved for the bicycle to filter past the cars just like they've been filtering past him for the previous mile?
no, it is neither more reasonable nor safer.

if you stay in the queue in the middle of the road, and then, as you start moving again, when there is space, move to the right, the cars that are still behind you can just wait until an opportunity to pass you safely arises...once.

when you filter to the front, you are causing the same cars to have to pass you over and over. that's not safer. if anything, you are going to piss people off...and when you are riding a bicycle or even a motorcycle, pissing people in cars off is in no way safe.

also, passing on the right in the 2 or 3 feet between the cars stopped at the light and parked cars on the side of the road is, in and of itself, not remotely close to safe.
LittleRedToyota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2013, 09:03 AM   #3536
Dranrab Luap
E-Tarded
 
Dranrab Luap's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Oddometer: 29,884
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota View Post
running stop signs when there is someone waiting at the cross street impedes traffic flow and causes inconvenience for cagers.

filtering to the front of the line at red lights, running the red light, and then holding everyone up again half a block later when the light turns green and the cars catch back up impedes traffic flow and causes inconvenience for cagers.

there is no way that stuff leads to better traffic flow or greater convenience for anyone other than the bicyclist. quite the opposite.

it also is often more dangerous, not safer, for the bicyclists. how on earth could running a stop sign when there is cross traffic be safer?
I dont do any of that obnoxious shit.
Dranrab Luap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2013, 09:41 AM   #3537
YamaGeek
Ancient trailbike padwan
 
YamaGeek's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: western oregon
Oddometer: 5,959
I'm trying to understand littleredtoyota's claim that I said I was filtering to the front of stopped traffic and then impeding it?

He seems intent on defining what is said.

How much more do I have to define this?

4 of my common filtering intersections were either one way with a bike-lane that teed into a two way without bike lanes, or an intersection on a apex of a hill, one way, with no bike lane that intersected an oblique MUP that joined an intersection. or were intersections where the bike lane suddenly ended across the intersection with a wide area for temporary off loading and parking.

In all cases, if I ended up at or near the front of the line either by the chance of a bike lane or that I was able to come to the intersection by riding between the stopped cars and the realtively wide space of the road edge I made sure once I was through the intersection to not be further mixing it up with traffic. In all cases I was riding along side the cars with enough room, and was out of their way within a block or less.

I guess it takes some ability with understanding what you're doing, that you can ride your bike in an urban environment without it being defined by whether you are a motor vehicle or not.

Some don't have this ability to see new ways of riding I'm guessing.
__________________
____________________________________________
We're here because of a love most exestential. (toothy)


YamaGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2013, 10:04 AM   #3538
Digasi
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Digasi's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Location: Salem, OR
Oddometer: 108
Filtering to to the front isn't so much of a problem if the cyclist can/willing to work with the flow.

As a driver I much rather have the cyclist move up to the front and then back out of the way. Makes my line shorter .
Digasi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2013, 10:31 AM   #3539
LittleRedToyota
Yinzer
 
LittleRedToyota's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Oddometer: 2,223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dranrab Luap View Post
I dont do any of that obnoxious shit.
never said you did.
LittleRedToyota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2013, 10:39 AM   #3540
JonU
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Location: El Paso, TX
Oddometer: 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dranrab Luap View Post
Incorrect.
Care to expand on this statement?
JonU is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 05:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014