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Old 10-04-2013, 08:11 PM   #3556
Gummee!
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The gorilla in the room



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Old 10-07-2013, 06:17 PM   #3557
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Old 10-08-2013, 08:30 PM   #3558
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Youíre Going to Kill Someone

If you keep driving like that, youíre going to kill a cyclist. When you do, itís going to suck as much for you as it does for them. When you drive by my head at 50 mph I canít have this conversation with you, so Iím going to do you a favor and talk you through all of your arguments as to why youíre driving wrong (you are) and then you wonít end up killing a human. So read on; youíre welcome.
Itís not if itís when. You are going to kill or seriously injure someone. You are. Someoneís father, brother, mother, daughter - you are going to end their life, forever, like permanently dead. Youíll be a murderer.

You can save those lives. You need to do two things:
  1. Slow down.
  2. Move over.
A few facts you might not be aware of:
  • When you pass a cyclist without crossing the yellow line you are breaking the law.
  • When you pass a cyclist while oncoming traffic is present you are breaking the law.
  • When you pass a cyclist in a no-passing zone you are breaking the law (this should be obvious yes? Because itís called a ďno passing zone.Ē)
This law wasnít made up because the state hates you, or cars, or getting places quickly. This law was enacted because squeezing by a cyclist in the same lane is incredibly dangerous Ė to the cyclist. Itís not dangerous to you, unless you donít like jail, or fines, or being a murderer.
NOW YOU MIGHT SAY:
ďBut, I have places to go and people to do! Youíre in my way! Too slow!Ē
Okay, great, I appreciate your sacrifice. Letís look at the math. This is math mind you and not subject to opinion. Iíll be generous and assume youíre on a 45mph speed limit road (most cycling takes place on much slower roads, but Iím in a giving mood, because I care about you). When I ride Iím traveling around 20mph. So youíre going 25mph faster than me, or about 55% faster. Again, being generous, you might be stuck behind a cyclist for 8 seconds. Usually much, much less. I know it seems like a long time, but itís not. Itís 8 seconds. Thatís with heavy oncoming traffic. However, youíre not stopped for that time, youíre traveling at 20mph. This means that slowing down, waiting for traffic to clear and passing the cyclist safely costs you about four secondsÖ max. Do you want to risk my life (permanently) and you being a murderer (forever) for four seconds? Really?
ďBut, you ride too far out in the lane, youíre supposed to ride single file, all the way to the right. Youíre an asshole!Ē
Legally, youíre wrong (in Michigan at least). Letís leave the law out of this though. Go ahead and see above and know that Iíd rather you be annoyed than me be dead. Youíd rather that too, because this way you donít have to go home and tell your kids they canít have a swimming pool because you paralyzed a cyclist from the waist down. Riding further out in the lane forces you to slow down and wait for traffic to clear to pass me. Youíre less likely to hit me on purpose than because you drive like an inconsiderate bag of dicks.
ďBut, I pay taxes/registration fees/gas tax.Ē
This one is really dumb. See, you pay usage fees because your heavy-ass car destroys the road. Guess what, bikes donít wear out roads like cars do. And guess what else (this is going to blow your mind) nearly everyone youíve ever passed on a bike also has a car, and registration fees, and gas taxes (crazy huh!). However, I use my car less and cause less than my share of wear on said road than I pay for. You see where Iím going with this? You should take this argument and hope no one ever hears it because it works against you.
ďBut, Cyclists disobey laws all the time, they run red lights and stuff, so screw them!Ē
Yes, I do. I ride my bike safely. The rules say Iím supposed to pretend that Iím a car, but see, thatís dangerous if Iím the only one obeying that rule. Iím pretending Iím a car, and you think Iím a bike, and you run over me and kill me with your car. This is bad for both of us. So, the minute you treat me like a car, Iíll start acting like one. In the meantime the difference between when you break the law and when I do is that youíre endangering my life, and Iím endangering your Ö wiper blades? Maybe? Probably not even that.
ďBut, I live in Ann Arbor and Bike Lanes! Fix our roads first! Uppity Cyclists! I pay for this shit and I hate you! Bikes slow my commute! Get them off the road!Ē
(for reference, read the comments section here)
Hereís the thing. Youíre being shortsighted. Imagine if all those people on bikes that you hate commuted downtown one-per-car. What would that do to your commute? What would that do to your parking availability downtown? What would those additional heavy cars do the pavement condition (remember that my bike doesnít wear the road at all) ? Iíll give you a hint Ö youíre a lot better off with the cyclists. Theyíre doing you a favor. Theyíre saving you money. Theyíre paying the same as you for that road, but using it less. You should be thanking them. You should be handing me a cupcake through the window.
ďBut youíre wrong!Ē
Nope. Iím not. Who do you think knows more about cycling, the guy on the bike or the guy in the car?
So to wrap it up:
Slow down.
Move over.
And for fuckís sake stop texting.
This way, I wonít be dead, and you wonít be a murderer.
Youíre Welcome.
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:01 PM   #3559
SilkMoneyLove
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I thought all I needed was 3 feet of room to pass a cyclist?
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:31 PM   #3560
windmill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkMoneyLove View Post
I thought all I needed was 3 feet of room to pass a cyclist?
It varies by state, but most allow passing an "obstruction" when safe. The trick is defining "obstruction".

http://flbikelaw.org/2009/07/passing...-passing-zone/
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Old 10-09-2013, 03:16 AM   #3561
Tripped1
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In New Jersey

Quote:
39:4-14.1 Rights and Duties of Persons on Bicycles.
Every person riding a bicycle on a roadway is granted all the rights and subject to all of the duties of the motor vehicle driver.





39:4-14.2, 39:4-10.11 Operating Regulations.
Every person riding a bicycle on a roadway shall ride as near to the right roadside as practicable exercising due care when passing a standing vehicle or one proceeding in the same direction. A bicyclist may move left under any of the following conditions: 1) To make a left turn from a left turn lane or pocket; 2) To avoid debris, drains, or other hazardous conditions on the right; 3) To pass a slower moving vehicle; 4) To occupy any available lane when traveling at the same speed as other traffic; 5) To travel no more than two abreast when traffic is not impeded, but otherwise ride in single file. Every person riding a bicycle shall ride in the same direction as vehicular traffic.
In New Jersey, the law states a bicyclist must obey all state and local automobile driving laws. A parent may be held responsible for the childís violation of any traffic law.



Hmmm SO there goes some of you guy's bullshit about where we are supposed to be in the lane
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Old 10-09-2013, 03:47 AM   #3562
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North Carolina

Overtaking law ďß 20-149. Overtaking a vehicle.Ē, (here) states ďThe driver of any such vehicle overtaking another vehicle proceeding in the same direction shall pass at least two feet to the left thereof.
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:13 AM   #3563
SilkMoneyLove
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windmill View Post
It varies by state, but most allow passing an "obstruction" when safe. The trick is defining "obstruction".

http://flbikelaw.org/2009/07/passing...-passing-zone/
I believe it is one of those common sense things. Can the pass be done safely? If yes, then go, if not, wait your turn.
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Old 10-09-2013, 07:35 AM   #3564
GoUglyEarly
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Nearly every group of bicyclists in NJ acts like a bunch of activists, spreads out across the road on purpose when vehicular traffic approaches, and unnecessarily creates uncomfortable situations.

Rarely to I see a group, even a small one, stay in single file. RARELY.

What I would like to hear, from the bike defenders here on the board, is a sworn statement that they don't seek to effect traffic on purpose, and furthermore, I would like them to be honest about the big macho talk going on in some of these wolfpacks.

Been there, done that, pot calling the kettle black. Several of YOU the bicyclists are raising the stakes as well, on a daily basis, all across the country. ON PURPOSE!

Wake up. You do not speak for the group, and anytime you catch yourself making such one-sided claims, you should know the chances are you are wrong. Maybe if you understood that you might stop provoking others on the street through your self-righteous entitlement.

As a motorcyclist, you should also be well aware that physics dictates that you will always lose, and you should ride accordingly. The meek shall inherit the earth, not the indignant.

Queue flying monkey music from The Wizard of Oz.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:43 AM   #3565
windmill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkMoneyLove View Post
I believe it is one of those common sense things. Can the pass be done safely? If yes, then go, if not, wait your turn.
It is, a few things in that post were patently false, self serving misinterpretations.

No single user or group has an absolute right of way on the road, when your actions have a significant impact on the normal flow of traffic there is an obligation to minimize it.

It goes both ways, there are times when motorists will need to accommodate cyclists or slow up for a moment, and there are times when cyclists will need to get clear of traffic or choose alternate routes.

Nobody has the right to endanger others, or intentionally create a dangerous situation.
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:03 AM   #3566
Gummee!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windmill View Post
It is, a few things in that post were patently false, self serving misinterpretations.

No single user or group has an absolute right of way on the road, when your actions have a significant impact on the normal flow of traffic there is an obligation to minimize it.

It goes both ways, there are times when motorists will need to accommodate cyclists or slow up for a moment, and there are times when cyclists will need to get clear of traffic or choose alternate routes.

Nobody has the right to endanger others, or intentionally create a dangerous situation.
It seems in some folks' opinion ANY impact on traffic (as defined as: motorized) is a danger or is having a 'significant impact on the normal flow of traffic.' That is irregardless of what kind of road people are cycling on.

*Most* of us get that riding down a 4-lane divided highway isn't the smartest bet. *Most* of us get that side streets are better than main roads. BUT there are times and places that make riding on either/both better than alternatives. ...just like anything else in the world.

So let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Back to R&Ring brakes and shocks on the Bank Vault. Gotta 1600 gravel road ride to get ready for!

M
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Old 10-09-2013, 04:23 PM   #3567
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The LAW here says

A bicycle may travel up to 1 meter out from the gutter (thats about 3 feet)

TWO bicycles may travel side by side in the same lane.

A vehicle passing a bicycle should leave a 1 meter clearance (thats is another 3 feet.

--------------------------
So a bicycle is 3 feet out and you have to leave another 3 feet and say the bicycle is 1 foot ... that is a total distance of 7 feet ... just how wide is a lane?

Messages -
if you don't have room - stay behind.
if you don't know the LAW then don't complain about someones behavior - it may well be LEGAL and done for safety.

Warin screwed with this post 10-09-2013 at 04:29 PM
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Old 10-09-2013, 05:07 PM   #3568
windmill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warin View Post
The LAW here says

A bicycle may travel up to 1 meter out from the gutter (thats about 3 feet)

TWO bicycles may travel side by side in the same lane.

A vehicle passing a bicycle should leave a 1 meter clearance (thats is another 3 feet.

--------------------------
So a bicycle is 3 feet out and you have to leave another 3 feet and say the bicycle is 1 foot ... that is a total distance of 7 feet ... just how wide is a lane?

Messages -
if you don't have room - stay behind.
if you don't know the LAW then don't complain about someones behavior - it may well be LEGAL and done for safety.
Just because something is legal, that doesn't grant carte Blanche to do as you please without responsibility or obligation to other rules and laws.
Also, illegal actions often do have legal exceptions such as exceeding the speed limit to make a safe pass, or passing an obstruction in a no passing zone.
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Old 10-09-2013, 07:10 PM   #3569
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Originally Posted by windmill View Post
Also, illegal actions often do have legal exceptions such as exceeding the speed limit to make a safe pass
Anit legal to do that here ... You want to overtake - you still cannot exceed the speed limit.

If something is legal then it does not break ANY law.

All we are demonstrating here it that what is legal in one place may not be legal in another.
-------------------------------
The law has not changed in centuries i.e. "The law is an ass" as per what Bill said.
===================================

What one interpenetrates as a bad action may well be seen as appropriate by another. What is needed is TOLERANCE rather than rage. And calling something legal or illegal is just reducing understanding.

Old saying
"Laws are made for the obedience of fools and the guidance of the wise."

If you place yourself in the latter category you must know the law, try to understand WHY it is there eg what it does for safety before you can be guided by it. Otherwise you are in the first category (along with most people who don't bother with either knowledge or understanding).

-------------------------
If you go riding/driving in another place (state or country) then you'll probably not know the laws there. So you do what everyone else does, more or less. What people expect is for every one to do the same thing. It is the exceptions that can cause problems. In Africa if you drive too fast through a village people will through rocks at you, drive slower than 20 km/h and you may not get a rock.

Warin screwed with this post 10-09-2013 at 07:23 PM
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Old 10-09-2013, 07:36 PM   #3570
Gummee!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warin View Post
Old saying
"Laws are made for the obedience of fools and the guidance of the wise."

If you place yourself in the latter category you must know the law, try to understand WHY it is there eg what it does for safety before you can be guided by it. Otherwise you are in the first category (along with most people who don't bother with either knowledge or understanding).
I'll agree with this.

Sometimes I'm the former. Sometimes I'm the latter. ...but I try and think about it before I do something.

M
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