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Old 10-30-2013, 07:27 AM   #3646
JimVonBaden
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Originally Posted by Earth Rider View Post
I would handle it like a DUI. You are charged with a misdemeanor (or more depending on the circumstances) and then have to defend yourself.

Right now you can kill a person and the default response is "shit happens." That's crazy.
I have no problem charging someone of a crime committed, but to assume guilt without evidence and then to make them defend their innocence is my issue. No charges without proof of guilt, or reasonable suspicion of guilt.

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Old 10-30-2013, 07:38 AM   #3647
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As a motorcyclist, or bicyclist we knowingly enter a hazardous environment to engage in a dangerous activity of our own free will. We know we're hard to see, we know others don't like or respect us, we know we're more vulnerable.

Cars, trucks, motorcycles, bicycles, whatever we are operating we always have equal responsibility to ourselves and others, for our safety and theirs.

Giving any road user a free pass on responsibility is entirely wrong on every level.
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:40 AM   #3648
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I have no problem charging someone of a crime committed, but to assume guilt without evidence and then to make them defend their innocence is my issue. No charges without proof of guilt, or reasonable suspicion of guilt.

Jim
A corpse under your vehicle that you hit and then dragged for 60 feet that was formerly a living person riding a bike to school is enough evidence for me to be comfortable charging that driver with a crime.
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:55 AM   #3649
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A corpse under your vehicle that you hit and then dragged for 60 feet that was formerly a living person riding a bike to school is enough evidence for me to be comfortable charging that driver with a crime.
See? That is the problem. That alone doesn't prove either intent or guilt. The bike rider might have suddenly changed direction directly in front of the car. Your analogy assumes guilt where none is proven.

IF, however, there are witnesses that say the driver intentionally, or by negligence, ran over the bicyclist, THEN, by all means, charge the car driver. Otherwise I would disagree with an automatic assumption of guilt just because the car is bigger.

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Old 10-30-2013, 08:11 AM   #3650
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See? That is the problem. That alone doesn't prove either intent or guilt. The bike rider might have suddenly changed direction directly in front of the car. Your analogy assumes guilt where none is proven.
It's not an analogy. Did you read the article? This was an actual case where someone hit a bicyclist and dragged him for 60 feet and never saw the person or realized what had happened. The driver's own account of the situation shows negligence. He was unaware that he hit a person and dragged that person for 60 feet, during the daytime. He wasn't charged because he "didn't see" the kid riding on the left side of the road. To me, that is a problem.

Trials are for proving guilt and intent.
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Old 10-30-2013, 08:14 AM   #3651
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Originally Posted by Earth Rider View Post
It's not an analogy. Did you read the article? This was an actual case where someone hit a bicyclist and dragged him for 60 feet and never saw the person or realized what had happened. The driver's own account of the situation shows negligence. He was unaware that he hit a person and dragged that person for 60 feet, during the daytime. He wasn't charged because he "didn't see" the kid riding on the left side of the road. To me, that is a problem.

Trials are for proving guilt and intent.
I wasn't talking about the article. I was talking in real terms based on the prevailing ideals of some in this thread.

BUT, in THAT case, then this may fit.

It certainly doesn't for EVERY case, nor should the law be changed to what you described for everyone.

Jim
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Old 10-30-2013, 08:30 AM   #3652
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I wasn't talking about the article. I was talking in real terms based on the prevailing ideals of some in this thread.

BUT, in THAT case, then this may fit.

It certainly doesn't for EVERY case, nor should the law be changed to what you described for everyone.

Jim
Maybe. My point is, something needs to change. In the vast majority of cases "I never saw him" is negligence and should be a crime.
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Old 10-30-2013, 09:38 AM   #3653
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Maybe. My point is, something needs to change. In the vast majority of cases "I never saw him" is negligence and should be a crime.
The problem with that is the fact that a bicycle or motorcycle can in fact be positioned in a way that its invisible, and its possible to enter those blind spots without a driver knowing it.

The only equitable way to assign fault is on the actual actions of a road user, not simply by their choice of vehicle.
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Old 10-30-2013, 09:18 PM   #3654
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The problem with that is the fact that a bicycle or motorcycle can in fact be positioned in a way that its invisible, and its possible to enter those blind spots without a driver knowing it.

The only equitable way to assign fault is on the actual actions of a road user, not simply by their choice of vehicle.


Jim
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Old 10-30-2013, 09:31 PM   #3655
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The problem with that is the fact that a bicycle or motorcycle can in fact be positioned in a way that its invisible, and its possible to enter those blind spots without a driver knowing it.

The only equitable way to assign fault is on the actual actions of a road user, not simply by their choice of vehicle.
Yeah in order to be on that blind spot, 9/10 times the bike has just BEEN PASSED by the car.

Whom 9/10 was paying no attention that a bicycle was there, you think you are invisible on a motorcycle, go up the road on a bicycle. I've been on a shoulder that you could park a semi on without touching grass or the fog line and damn near been grazed. Bitch had over half of her car on the shoulder at 50mph, good thing I was clean against the grass that time instead of in the middle where I would normally be.

...and no reason for it, no one turning, no traffic in front of her, bitch just decided that the line don't apply, or simply didn't care.

I'm sure that see "wouldn't have seen me" if she had hit me that morning.
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:30 PM   #3656
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Tenant?

Jim
It's "tenet" not "tenant"
the latter is someone who rents. The former is a principle or standard.

Your friendly Grammarian/Wordsmith/Nazi
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Old 10-31-2013, 04:12 AM   #3657
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The problem with that is the fact that a bicycle or motorcycle can in fact be positioned in a way that its invisible, and its possible to enter those blind spots without a driver knowing it.
I understand blind corners and such, but can't quite figure how you'd get a bicycle in a car's blind spot in a way that would cause an accident. If you run over a person on a bike chances are pretty good that you could have seen then first. I have had a close call due to nighttime and dark clothing.
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Old 10-31-2013, 04:55 AM   #3658
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As a motorcyclist, or bicyclist we knowingly enter a hazardous environment to engage in a dangerous activity of our own free will. We know we're hard to see, we know others don't like or respect us, we know we're more vulnerable.

Cars, trucks, motorcycles, bicycles, whatever we are operating we always have equal responsibility to ourselves and others, for our safety and theirs.

Giving any road user a free pass on responsibility is entirely wrong on every level.
You bring up a good point.
I'd have to say the majority of bicyclists are NOT aware they are invisible to cars and trucks. They don't have ANY formal training dealing with traffic like motorcyclists do. (To be clear, I'm not advocating government training/licensing programs! ) They don't need much training but they DO need to be aware they are invisible to other road users...
Adding that info to awareness campaigns for bicyclists would help.
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Old 10-31-2013, 04:56 AM   #3659
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Jim
It's "tenet" not "tenant"
the latter is someone who rents. The former is a principle or standard.

Your friendly Grammarian/Wordsmith/Nazi
Klay better look out or he may be replaced soon!
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:45 AM   #3660
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Originally Posted by Earth Rider View Post
I understand blind corners and such, but can't quite figure how you'd get a bicycle in a car's blind spot in a way that would cause an accident. If you run over a person on a bike chances are pretty good that you could have seen then first. I have had a close call due to nighttime and dark clothing.
In an urban environment, which typically has the highest concentration of bicycles, cyclists can keep pace with or travel faster than motorized traffic, and will often not be following normal traffic patterns, popping up at random.

I used to have a downtown Seattle delivery route, at times there were so many cyclists zipping around at random, through traffic and pedestrians, its surprising more aren't killed each year.

Going by some of what I have seen, it seems some cyclists are more concerned about their "rights" then actually doing it right.

Its not the choice of vehicle, its the choices that person makes, it goes both ways.
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