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Old 02-19-2014, 04:23 PM   #4336
Warin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windmill View Post
Mixed feelings on it,

As a P&D driver, motorcyclist, and cyclist its reassuring there is more accountability for bad drivers as I'm at greater risk than most people, but the company I drive for has instated a policy of mandatory termination for striking a pedestrian or cyclist to mitigate their liability because of it.
There are voice raised here to have commercial vehicles fitted with 'black boxes' to record precrash data. Some of the drivers don't want it .. the union is reluctant ... personally if I was one of the drivers I'd want it .. and some dash cameras - front, rear and sides... if you have done something wrong then face the consequences .. but the biggest factor is proving that 'they' were in the wrong or at least contributed.
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:58 PM   #4337
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Originally Posted by Warin View Post
There are voice raised here to have commercial vehicles fitted with 'black boxes' to record precrash data. Some of the drivers don't want it .. the union is reluctant ... personally if I was one of the drivers I'd want it .. and some dash cameras - front, rear and sides... if you have done something wrong then face the consequences .. but the biggest factor is proving that 'they' were in the wrong or at least contributed.
They already do have the black boxes, and all our new trucks have Vorad which also can record, the issue is who may access it, when and why. Conway trucking already is running dash cams in their trucks that are triggered by certain threshold events.
The big trucking companies know they have more to gain than to loose by doing it to protect themselves from fraudulent liability, its the fly by night operations that are balking.
As a driver I welcome it because the trend in the industry is to always blame the driver, rather than to admit there may be issues with equipment, loads, dispatch, or scheduling. The other benefit would be the ability to finally document how badly many motorists behave around big trucks.
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:35 AM   #4338
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The other benefit would be the ability to finally document how badly many motorists behave around big trucks.
You get a good view up high. Most car drivers don't see much, they don't look around themselves - usually out the front and that is it. The vast majority behave when there is a marked cop car around (once they see it) ... more unmarked cop cars?

The usual argument presented when you complain to the cops here "It is your word against theirs" .. more dash cams will help.
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Old 02-20-2014, 05:44 AM   #4339
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Historian uncovers the forgotten U.S. protected bike lane boom of 1905



Quote:
If the paths themselves had continued to exist, they might have offered alternative suburban and interurban commuting options throughout the twentieth century. As cities and towns of America expanded, the suburbs would have bloomed along the sidepath networks linking them back to the urban center. The persistence of sidepaths might have provided some American cities with a built-in radial network of bicycle paths throughout the twentieth century — the very network that many are now trying to build or accommodate, with great difficulty, in the twenty-first.

BIG 'what if?'


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Old 02-20-2014, 06:10 AM   #4340
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Originally Posted by Center-stand View Post
..

Sadly, that cloak of invisibility seems to block the view from the inside as well. How else could you explain a cyclist suddenly moving out from the edge of the pavement into the middle of a lane in front of an overtaking vehicle and then staying there for awhile seemingly oblivious to the line piling up behind him.

..
I wasn't there, but if it were me: there was something on the side of the road, debris, broken pavement, or it just wasn't safe to pass with oncoming traffic.
Quote:
Bicyclists operating a bicycle on a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place under conditions then existing shall ride as close as safely practicable to the right curb or edge of roadway. Exceptions to this are when bicyclists are overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction, preparing for a left turn, avoiding unsafe conditions, avoiding riding in a lane that turns or diverges to the right, riding on a one way street where bicyclists may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of roadway, or when the lane width is too narrow to share with a motor vehicle. Additionally, bicycles are not excluded from riding on the highway shoulder.
(bolding mine)
Nowhere in the laws does it say I have to yield the ROW if it isn't safe. IT DOES say
Quote:
To safely pas a bicycle riding on the far right side of the roadway, motorists shall reduce speed as necessary and maintain at least 2 feet of distance between their vehicle and the bicyclist; however 3 feet should be provided when possible. Bicyclists are to be treated as motorists, so the same guidelines for passing vehicles shall be followed. For example, those overtaking and passing a bicyclist (and a motor vehicle) shall not proceed back to the right side of the highway until safely clear of the bicycle (or motor vehicle)
Note the 'reduce speed as necessary' bit? There's no carte blanche that says you'll always be able to go as fast as you want around other traffic. ...and bicycles are other traffic.

The expectation that cyclists yield the ROW when it isn't safe is asinine. Would YOU yield your ROW if it wasn't safe? Doubt it. Most of the rest of this sub-forum is dedicated to just the opposite.

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Old 02-20-2014, 08:19 AM   #4341
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Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
Nowhere in the laws does it say I have to yield the ROW if it isn't safe. IT DOES say
The expectation that cyclists yield the ROW when it isn't safe is asinine. Would YOU yield your ROW if it wasn't safe?
I'm not disagreeing you, but what your saying is not exactly correct either.

You are 100% correct that no one can ever expect someone else to yield their ROW.

On the other hand, I can't yield my ROW because the law never gives it to me, it only tells me when I must yield to your ROW.

If you violate my ROW, I loose it and must yield because everybodys first duty is to do everything possible to prevent a collision.
Its a hard pill to swallow, but if you do something to fight for, or defend your ROW from someone trying to take it, you're doing something wrong. If you're involved in a collision and tell the cop you did so-and-so because you had the ROW, you just admitted to culpability.

*"you" and "me" are used generically.*
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:23 AM   #4342
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http://www.my9nj.com/story/24726961/...on-long-island

Politicians don't see a difference between Bicycles or motorcycles.

I was clipped a few months back on my bicycle on a side road, the car didn't stop even though they had to have seen their mirror explode. Luckily I was wearing good gear and only suffered a bruises. I mistakenly was riding on the edge and not in the middle of the road, that I pay taxes on.
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Old 02-20-2014, 03:39 PM   #4343
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something to think about:
Quote:
Letting go of my pointless frustration about all things enduro reminded me of a British fellow that came into the shop I was wrenching at a number of years ago. He walked in pushing the type of rig that makes mechanics scurry away like cockroaches illuminated by a refrigerator light - a mountain bike turned touring bike with every type of pannier imaginable strapped onto it. I can't remember if it had aero bars, but it's highly likely. I didn't find a hiding place quickly enough, so it was my lucky day to work on this overloaded, sweat stained beast of a machine. But as I started my attempts to bring its worn out drivetrain back to life, the bike's owner started talking about his travels, telling me where he'd been and where he was going, and working on his bike began to seem like less of a chore.

You see, he was a good portion of his way through a south to north journey by bike, travelling from Cape Horn all the way to Prudhoe Bay, Alaska, a trip of over 16,000 miles that actually deserves to be called 'epic'. What had inspired him to take on an adventure of this magnitude? He had had a lucrative career as an attorney in London, and one day after work he went to the grocer to purchase a particular cut of meat. When he found out the store had run out, he was so furious that he began filling out a complaint card, scribbling down his angry thoughts, belittling the store for not having the product he wanted at the very instant he wanted it. But then he stopped. Something clicked in his brain, and he realized how meaningless and trifling of an issue he was complaining about. Hell, even his chosen career didn't seem to be very significant. He threw the complaint slip away, walked out the door, cashed in his savings, quit his job, and headed down to South America to begin his journey by bike. His moment of clarity allowed him to step off the runaway train his life had become and make changes for the better.

This story has stuck with me over the years, bringing me perspective when little, trivial issues (like the proper use of the word 'enduro') begin to bother me more than they should. With the massive amounts of information we get bombarded with every day it becomes second nature to make superficial, snap judgements, liking or disliking something within seconds after seeing it, without taking any time to process our thoughts. It's a difficult habit to break, a cycle that takes a conscious effort to escape from, but it's not impossible. Give it a try - the next time you're about to lash out against the world on the internet, push pause. Walk outside, hop on your bike, and go on a ride. You don't need to circumnavigate the globe – even a few laps around a pump track might do the trick. And when you're done, if you still feel the same way, by all means, express your opinions. But just try to remember to pick your battles, and that riding bikes fixes just about everything.
From here

Some of the same things could be said of many things that aggravate or annoy.
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Old 02-22-2014, 10:00 AM   #4344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post


Yesterday's ride. I'm on the white/orange bike being filmed by a buddy. I 'save the day' at 4:45 as the car behind us didn't see what happened.



M
Hi Gummee,

I've watched the video a couple of times. I know your view on faster vehicles and the art of overtaking. What I find confusing is that in the video, you and your riding companions on several occasions ride very near the edge when being overtaken by a companion. I see one of you ride through snow and slush while a companion rides on clean pavement. There is at least one instance where one of you easily rides to the outside of pot holes, near the edge, in a very narrow and controlled line.

Based on the video evidence I'm not sure why you claim your right to hold a lane when a motor vehicle comes up behind you when it is very apparent you have the skills necessary to ride safely, close enough to the edge to allow passing, in a wide variety of road conditions. I also noticed when you met an oncoming vehicle you had no trouble riding close to the edge.

You said you "saved the day". I am guessing you stopped to pick up the camera. I am wondering now, how close was the vehicle that you saved the camera from, and were you holding it up by riding in the middle of the road at the time the camera fell off the bike? The road looked wide enough for passing and the oncoming lane was open.

I suspect there are times when you hold the road to prove a point. I think the assumed ambiguity of the the written law and your idea of safety is, in your mind, a sliding scale that you feel very much in control of.

..

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Old 02-22-2014, 10:24 AM   #4345
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Originally Posted by ObiJohn View Post
Here in the Seattle area, we could get some of this benefit by letting scooters use dedicated trails like the Burke-Gilman, the I-90 trail, etc. We'd have to act like the Dutch and enforce speed limits for all 2-wheeled vehicles to 15 mph, because it's not the mix of vehicles that's dangerous, it's the mix of speeds. Eventually we should build dedicated trails for low-speed two-wheeled vehicles.
Well yea sorta kinda.... in Ballard (seattle suburb) we have the Burke-Gilman and others... they are for 2 wheeled low speed vehicles..

But the bicyclists won't use them!! they stay in the road 2 or 3 abreast... it is not a law they they use them, but it should be... if there is a bike trail, get in it... you wanted it, we gave it to you!!! Passive aggressive A-holes....
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Old 02-22-2014, 01:22 PM   #4346
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Originally Posted by going south View Post
Well yea sorta kinda.... in Ballard (seattle suburb) we have the Burke-Gilman and others... they are for 2 wheeled low speed vehicles..

But the bicyclists won't use them!! they stay in the road 2 or 3 abreast... it is not a law they they use them, but it should be... if there is a bike trail, get in it... you wanted it, we gave it to you!!! Passive aggressive A-holes....
When my route was downtown Seattle, the choices of some cyclists did seem questionable, why tie up a major urban arterial when there is a clean, smooth, wide open trail, path, or bicycle lane 20' from the road? The right to do something doesn't always make it the right thing to do.
On the other hand, other than where a path or trail runs along side a road with no bike lane or shoulder, who do you require to use it? Seattle may have an extensive bicycle infrastructure, but it still serves only a small percentage of where folks are coming from and going to.

IMO, the selfish behavior of a few doesn't warrant restricting everyone to a few specific routes.
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Old 02-22-2014, 05:44 PM   #4347
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IMO, the selfish behavior of a few doesn't warrant restricting everyone to a few specific routes.
It is too easy to say 'why don't they use xxx instead' ... the my reality is;

I use a bicycle path here on an irregular basis.. used it 2 days ago .. full of leaves, branches.. next time I'll be using the road!!!! It might look ok from the road .. but it is not now.

Another 'bicycle path' is simply the foot path with lots of business entries along it .. it is safer to use the road rather than be cut off at the last minute by a truck driving over it to make their entry to/from the road .. screatch... bang... mutter mutter.. 'they' don't expect a bicycle doing 15mph .... along 'the footpath' .. not recognizing that is is a bicycle path .. so I use the road .. they know what a road is and the laws on it. A bicycle path .. well I can do anything I like on it .. after all they are only bicycles.

Another bicycle path (costing heaps!) ends .. stop .. ceases at a traffic light .. No pedestrian crossing, no footpath elsewhere, no nothing .. you are faced with a high speed 6 lane highway ... and no way out other than going back the way you came .. a complete and utter waste of money .. what were they thinking off?

------------

I'll use an alternative ... if it is safer to do so and does not double or more the time/distance/height gained ..

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Old 02-22-2014, 08:57 PM   #4348
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I understand what you're saying, there being legitimate reasons to avoid issues, but the circumstances I'm referring to are where the conditions and layout of the lanes or paths are as close to ideal as there is, the only reason to not use them being plain old cussedness.

https://www.seattle.gov/transportation/cycletracks.htm

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Old 02-23-2014, 06:00 AM   #4349
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Originally Posted by Center-stand View Post
Hi Gummee,

I've watched the video a couple of times. I know your view on faster vehicles and the art of overtaking. What I find confusing is that in the video, you and your riding companions on several occasions ride very near the edge when being overtaken by a companion. I see one of you ride through snow and slush while a companion rides on clean pavement. There is at least one instance where one of you easily rides to the outside of pot holes, near the edge, in a very narrow and controlled line.

Based on the video evidence I'm not sure why you claim your right to hold a lane when a motor vehicle comes up behind you when it is very apparent you have the skills necessary to ride safely, close enough to the edge to allow passing, in a wide variety of road conditions. I also noticed when you met an oncoming vehicle you had no trouble riding close to the edge.

You said you "saved the day". I am guessing you stopped to pick up the camera. I am wondering now, how close was the vehicle that you saved the camera from, and were you holding it up by riding in the middle of the road at the time the camera fell off the bike? The road looked wide enough for passing and the oncoming lane was open.

I suspect there are times when you hold the road to prove a point. I think the assumed ambiguity of the the written law and your idea of safety is, in your mind, a sliding scale that you feel very much in control of.

..
I have the skills to ride on the edge, true. ...but that doesn't mean that A. I want to, B. have to, and C. should *need* to when being passed.

...and what you saw when you saw us riding on the edge in the video above is being nice to a riding buddy or simply effing up a line. There're times when its take a less effective line and let your buddy have the clean pavement or take the good line and run your buddy into potholes.

I effed up my line a bunch in the first bits of that ride. Wasn't looking far enough ahead and was aimed at potholes. Riding on the edge of the road was better than hitting the potholes.

Like I've said before: if its safe I'm the easiest guy to pass: I'll give up some room on the road when its possible to pass safely. Once the vehicle passes, I'm right back where I was.

When it isn't safe, I'm pretty darn wide.

AFA the car: . We all had plenty of time to stop and for me to pick up the camera. That 'saved the day' was tongue in cheek. Once the camera was picked up, we all moved over and let the car by. No drama.

IIRC that was the first car to pass us on the gravel sections. Its funny. Riding/driving gravel, people are nicer to everyone else. Its just when people hit tarmac that the inner a-hole comes out.

M
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Old 02-23-2014, 06:24 AM   #4350
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Another bicycle path (costing heaps!) ends .. stop .. ceases at a traffic light .. No pedestrian crossing, no footpath elsewhere, no nothing .. you are faced with a high speed 6 lane highway ... and no way out other than going back the way you came .. a complete and utter waste of money .. what were they thinking off?
They were thinking there was a stipulation to put in X amount of bike path to get X amount of money for another project.
And that is exactly how much bike path they put in.

There is an abandoned CSX railbed near my home that we having been trying to get for a bike trail.

CSX wants $2M for it, a strip of land along the river that has absolutely no value to anyone else.
There have been no tracks on it for years.

Other rail beds like this have just been donated, not sure why they are wanting so much for this one.
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