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Old 08-04-2014, 02:20 AM   #4936
catweasel67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozmoses View Post
I notice that the US is not included on that list, Weazy.

Your opinion of cycling here is based upon sheer conjecture, then?

OK, good talk.
My opinion is based on statements in this thread. Hence "opinion". Are you now saying that everyone who posted in this thread about their negative experiences whilst riding in the US was wrong? Or were they bullshitting? Or are you just being combative?

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Try Amsterdam?
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No, never been there. I bet it's pretty good though. Most of the Netherlands is very bike friendly.
It's a great town - so bike friendly that if a cager hits a cyclist, the default position is that it was the cagers fault :)
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catweasel67 screwed with this post 08-04-2014 at 02:31 AM
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Old 08-04-2014, 09:06 AM   #4937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catweasel67 View Post
My opinion is based on statements in this thread. Hence "opinion". Are you now saying that everyone who posted in this thread about their negative experiences whilst riding in the US was wrong? Or were they bullshitting? Or are you just being combative?
OK, I'll bite-

"Combative" ? Hardly.

Not even argumentative.

My opinion of riding in the US is based upon...wait for it...riding in the US! All over the US, in fact.

It can be scary, as many in this thread have concurred while you registered your dissent.

I,too, have ridden in Europe, though not enough to have an opinion of any actual worth; certainly not enough to contradict the experience of those who do it regularly.

You seem to display the same attitude in your Tail of the Dragon thread posts yet it remains unclear if you've ridden the road regularly or at all.

Hence my query regarding the basis of your seemingly rather rigid opinions.
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Old 08-04-2014, 09:10 AM   #4938
catweasel67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozmoses View Post
OK, I'll bite-

"Combative" ? Hardly.

Not even argumentative.

My opinion of riding in the US is based upon...wait for it...riding in the US! All over the US, in fact.

It can be scary, as many in this thread have concurred while you registered your dissent.

I,too, have ridden in Europe, though not enough to have an opinion of any actual worth; certainly not enough to contradict the experience of those who do it regularly.

You seem to display the same attitude in your Tail of the Dragon thread posts yet it remains unclear if you've ridden the road regularly or at all.

Hence my query regarding the basis of your seemingly rather rigid opinions.
Ok, good talk.
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Old 08-04-2014, 10:03 AM   #4939
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Originally Posted by catweasel67 View Post
Seems to me that you guys have some pretty serious problems over there, either that, or maybe you should re-consider your choice of sport - "scary" being, after all, a relative term,
Quote:
Originally Posted by catweasel67 View Post
My opinion is based on statements in this thread. Hence "opinion". Are you now saying that everyone who posted in this thread about their negative experiences whilst riding in the US was wrong? Or were they bullshitting? Or are you just being combative?
You nailed it "you guys have some pretty serious problems over there," if you were referring to cagers being dangerous idiots who disregard the safety of other humans on the roads because of their impatience/ignorance. But then you added the "or maybe you should re-consider your choice of sport - "scary" being, after all, a relative term"

That's where the disconnect in your statement is.

Yes we do have serious problems with assholes in cages...and yes, if a cage passes you by at 60mph, 12" off your elbow it can get scary.


Do you consider that as being a unnecessarily scary situation or business as usual?
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Old 08-04-2014, 10:28 AM   #4940
catweasel67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwalsh View Post
You nailed it "you guys have some pretty serious problems over there," if you were referring to cagers being dangerous idiots who disregard the safety of other humans on the roads because of their impatience/ignorance. But then you added the "or maybe you should re-consider your choice of sport - "scary" being, after all, a relative term"

That's where the disconnect in your statement is.

Yes we do have serious problems with assholes in cages...and yes, if a cage passes you by at 60mph, 12" off your elbow it can get scary.


Do you consider that as being a unnecessarily scary situation or business as usual?
I said you either have some serious issues OR the poster had to reconsider their sport of choice. So you've answered my question - you guys have some pretty serious issues and that's a bloody shame.

I wonder - is the US attitude to cyclists (and motorbikes) getting better or worse? Anyone care to hazard a guess? And does anyone care to make a proposal to resolve the issue?

Personally I'd be up for mandatory cycle and motorbike training for anyone wishing to drive a car :)
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Old 08-04-2014, 10:39 AM   #4941
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catweasel67 View Post
I said you either have some serious issues OR the poster had to reconsider their sport of choice. So you've answered my question - you guys have some pretty serious issues and that's a bloody shame.

I wonder - is the US attitude to cyclists (and motorbikes) getting better or worse? Anyone care to hazard a guess? And does anyone care to make a proposal to resolve the issue?

Personally I'd be up for mandatory cycle and motorbike training for anyone wishing to drive a car :)
I'm not sure if it's traffic density, social media or more cameras being used by cyclists but it feels like the number of incidents is on the rise.
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Old 08-04-2014, 10:40 AM   #4942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catweasel67 View Post
I wonder - is the US attitude to cyclists (and motorbikes) getting better or worse? Anyone care to hazard a guess? And does anyone care to make a proposal to resolve the issue?

Personally I'd be up for mandatory cycle and motorbike training for anyone wishing to drive a car :)
I think that's largely dependent on where you're looking. In general, maybe awareness of cyclists is improving. I certainly see more articles in the general media regarding cyclists than I remember even just 5 years ago.

Even in a region, the attitudes toward bicycles can vary wildly. Believe it or not, the Motor City is a pretty decent town to ride a cycle in. There are tons of hipsters riding fixies and old 10-speeds around the midtown area, and while most of them are probably just riding the bike as a fashion statement, the more cyclists there are on the road, the better, IMO. The drivers are pitiful but they're not especially dangerous to cyclists any more than they are to anything else on the road, and the roads are usually wide enough and traffic is usually light enough that everyone can get along without killing each other.

The suburbs, however, are not nice places to ride at all. I have ridden many miles in Detroit, and many in the suburbs. I have never had anyone in Detroit swerve at me, or shout out the window at me to "git off mah road," but it happens fairly regularly in the blue-collar white neighborhoods north of Detroit. There's a whole heaping mess of redneck aggression toward cyclists boiling in lower middle-class suburbs. Plus, the roads are shitty and there's nothing interesting there anyway, so when I ride, it's either in the city or out in the rural areas where the roads are nice and people generally seem to be able to manage passing a 20" wide object moving less than 20 mph without losing their shit.
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Old 08-04-2014, 10:41 AM   #4943
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Plan and simple the attitude of most car drivers is that roads are for 4+ wheels only.

Motorcyclists and cyclists are second class users, as evidenced by the Lane splitting issues and bicycling aggression issues.

Even the motorcylists tend to grumble about the cyclists using "our" roads.

So maybe Cyclists are 3rd class users.

California has a new 3 foot rule, saying traffic has to give cyclists a 3 foot space when passing if there is no dedicated bike lane.

We shall see how that works out.
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Old 08-04-2014, 11:50 AM   #4944
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Originally Posted by Rgconner View Post
California has a new 3 foot rule, saying traffic has to give cyclists a 3 foot space when passing if there is no dedicated bike lane.

We shall see how that works out.

we've had that 3 foot law in Florida for years. Does no good as it is rarely if ever enforced. Same with children wearing helmets when pedaling .
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Old 08-04-2014, 02:46 PM   #4945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catweasel67 View Post
Ok, good talk.
Not a very good burn, but E for effort.



This thread exists largely because cycling in the US, frankly, can suck and is sucking more as time goes by. It also exists because we have "pretty serious issues" as evidenced by many of the posts here which, I presume, you read before jumping into the fray.

Why do we have these issues?

Because the prevailing sentiment here seems to be increasingly "Fuck you, me first".

A resolution?

Thin the herd; beyond that, probably not.

All of which illustrates my point- I do not know what the local customs are in Vienna nor in jolly old England, so I neither hold forth on the subject nor proffer my uninformed criticism of those who live it daily.



I am now spitting the hook.
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Old 08-04-2014, 02:49 PM   #4946
k7
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Sunset Hills......

Link

Oh shit....
"SUNSET HILLS • 911 recordings after an incident Tuesday afternoon involving Sunset Hills Mayor Mark Furrer and a bicyclist contain audio of a witness shouting at a fleeing car to stop after an accident.

“Pull over, pull over! You just hit that guy and took off!” a caller can be heard saying on a 911 recording released to the Post-Dispatch on Aug. 4 through an open records request."
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Old 08-04-2014, 06:08 PM   #4947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozmoses View Post
Because the prevailing sentiment here seems to be increasingly "Fuck you, me first".
That attitude is present in all the world. It is only a question of how many people have it over riding there other thoughts, such as 'be fair' ... And it is not just on the roads that it is evident.

The research on motorcycle crashes says you are less likely to have a crash with another road user if that road user has experience riding a motorcycle (British IIRC). I think that also transfer over to bicycle riders - if the other road user has experience with riding a bicycle then you'll have less conflict.
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Old 08-05-2014, 08:02 AM   #4948
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catweasel67 View Post
...I wonder - is the US attitude to cyclists (and motorbikes) getting better or worse? Anyone care to hazard a guess? And does anyone care to make a proposal to resolve the issue?...
I think it is much better than when I started riding and racing in the '70's. Cycling for fitness/fun/transportation was a rarity in those days. I think the running boom of the 70'-80's had a lot to do with improving visibility for folks seeking out the benefits of exercising in the outdoors. My experience now is hardly a reflection of the US in general, but cyclists are so common in Oregon, that it is a rarity to hear about road rage against them. Of course accidents still happen, but likely for the same reasons that other accidents happen. Honestly, I think that cell phones are the worst thing to happen to cyclists since drinking and driving.
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:43 PM   #4949
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+1

Agreed, cell phones (texting and driving) is the worst thing that have happened to cyclists, pedestrians and motorcyclist since the invention of the car.
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:48 PM   #4950
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101 pages on a simple road rules question!
Do whatever is safe and respectful, pass when it is safe for all parties (oncoming/cyclist/self)
The problem I see as a cyclist is that people feel it is their god given right to maintain their current speed regardless of who's coming or going.
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