Bicycles on the road

[LittleRedToyota]

Originally Posted by _CJ

Jesus, I wish that were the law everywhere. It would negate 90+% of the gripes I hear from drivers.

i'm curious what gripes you hear from drivers that would be negated by a rolling stop law?

[_CJ]

Originally Posted by perterra

I would only suggest what JVB does may be none of your concern, quit trying to control others and worry about your own shit.

[JimVonBaden]

Originally Posted by _CJ

Jealous?

I'm sure you've never gone even one mile over the speed limit though....or rolled a stop sign when nobody was around. :

Weather or not a particular cyclist does or does not break the law is none of your concern. Mind your own business and quit trying to control what others do. You can only control your own actions and how you respond to others actions. Bitching and moaning about it isn't going to improve the quality of your life, or change the behavior of others. I can guarantee your argument won't hold water when you're standing in front of the judge trying to defend yourself for the harassment or assault of a cyclist.

You missed the point. I am not jealous, and am not a rules fanatic. I just fail to see why some advocate breaking the rules for bicycles. My motorcycle can easily pass on locations that cars can't, and I do. I don't expect the laws to change to reflect that reality.

By the way, why so bent on this and accusing me of some "harassment"?

Jim

[singletrackslayer]

Originally Posted by perterra

they are special

I'm starting to believe your short bus theory . . .

[fallingoff]

Originally Posted by JimVonBaden

You missed the point. I am not jealous, and am not a rules fanatic. I just fail to see why some advocate breaking the rules for bicycles. My motorcycle can easily pass on locations that cars can't, and I do. I don't expect the laws to change to reflect that reality.

By the way, why so bent on this and accusing me of some "harassment"?

Jim

dear jim have you ever commuted on a push bike
across a large city
its like a motorbike
you learn tactics
to keep yourself safe
one of them is keep moving
hard to stop
put foot down
then go again
takes time
put you in danger longer
frustrates other road users

empathy is not a silly word jimmy

next time i will try
to keep it shorter

cheers

a real live person

[JimVonBaden]

Originally Posted by fallingoff

dear jim have you ever commuted on a push bike
across a large city
its like a motorbike
you learn tactics
to keep yourself safe
one of them is keep moving
hard to stop
put foot down
then go again
takes time
put you in danger longer
frustrates other road users

empathy is not a silly word jimmy

next time i will try
to keep it shorter

cheers

a real live person

So

Rules

For others

Not you

Got

it.

Jim

[fallingoff]

Originally Posted by JimVonBaden

So

Rules

For others

Not you

Got

it.

Jim

dear jimmy
rules are guide lines
so we can get along
manners are the grease of society
i'm sure you and i
break rules/laws everyday
i try not to inconvenice other people
you still must learn empathy jimmy
i will break a law if my life is on the line
ie red light with a truck 6 inches away from my back tyre
i'm sure if you have any motorcycling experience
you would understand this.
same as a pushbike
sometimes breaking the law `to stay alive
i'm not condoning breaking laws/rules for the sake of it
now that would be silly jimmy
its like trying to take off my writing style
its quite funny
but i am handicapped
ie slightly dislexic/autistic
would you do the same to someone in a wheel chair
now that was below the belt by me and you jimmy

so read think understand other road users
we want respect as riders
we must give respect back

cheers

[Rekd]

Originally Posted by Gummee!

What happens if you already own at least one? I don't want to be old, fat, and miserable so I deal with idiots in cars.

We'll put it this way: I have had a few pairs of wheels that ran $1500+. Then add tires at $80/ea. End up hitting a hole 'just wrong' and you get to pay out the nose. I don't expect you to hit potholes in your car, why expect me to ride my wheels that are MORE expensive in the crap?

M

Originally Posted by jas67

Um... the road that I LIVE ON. Which I need to ride to get to anywhere else. What should I do, load my bicycle into the car, and drive to Maryland (from Hershey, PA) to find a road with a safe shoulder, every time I want to ride?

I know you're all hung up on slamming anyone who dares say bad things about cyclists, but shut up and read...

I'm talking about riders who have PERFECTLY GOOD, CALIFORNIA TAXPAYER APPROVED bike lanes that are NOT dirty, NOT full of pot holes, and PLENTY wide enough to ride 3 bikes side by side without being in the fucking road, and some idiot, (and by "some" I mean close to half of the ones I've seen) thinks it's his right to be IN 70 MPH TRAFFIC.

If you don't have room to ride safely with traffic in certain areas yet insist on doing it that's on you, not on me. If Joe Blow comes around the corner and doesn't see you because his face is buried in a text message it's going to be YOU that loses, not the car.

Man you guys are stubborn.

[fallingoff]

Originally Posted by Rekd

I know you're all hung up on slamming anyone who dares say bad things about cyclists, but shut up and read...

I'm talking about riders who have PERFECTLY GOOD, CALIFORNIA TAXPAYER APPROVED bike lanes that are NOT dirty, NOT full of pot holes, and PLENTY wide enough to ride 3 bikes side by side without being in the fucking road, and some idiot, (and by "some" I mean close to half of the ones I've seen) thinks it's his right to be IN 70 MPH TRAFFIC.

If you don't have room to ride safely with traffic in certain areas yet insist on doing it that's on you, not on me. If Joe Blow comes around the corner and doesn't see you because his face is buried in a text message it's going to be YOU that loses, not the car.

Man you guys are stubborn.

yeh

your right
those cyclists
sh%t me

[filmfan]

Originally Posted by Rekd

I know you're all hung up on slamming anyone who dares say bad things about cyclists, but shut up and read...

I'm talking about riders who have PERFECTLY GOOD, CALIFORNIA TAXPAYER APPROVED bike lanes that are NOT dirty, NOT full of pot holes, and PLENTY wide enough to ride 3 bikes side by side without being in the fucking road, and some idiot, (and by "some" I mean close to half of the ones I've seen) thinks it's his right to be IN 70 MPH TRAFFIC.

If you don't have room to ride safely with traffic in certain areas yet insist on doing it that's on you, not on me. If Joe Blow comes around the corner and doesn't see you because his face is buried in a text message it's going to be YOU that loses, not the car.

Man you guys are stubborn.

You're right, it's dumb to mix it up with cars if you don't have to.

OTH, the sort of bike lane you're talking about is pretty rare.

The "right to be dumb" may not be in the constitution, but it may as well be. There are plenty of people, piloting all sorts of vehicles, who don't fail to pass up an opportunity to exercise that right.

[Rekd]

Originally Posted by fallingoff

yeh

your right
those cyclists
sh%t me

I read one of your posts a few days ago. Do yourself a favor... don't bother writing anything to me, I won't be reading it. All I get out of your posts is carriage return infested blathering that probably sounds really cute in your head but is difficult to read at best. Quite frankly, when I read your post it gave me a headache.

Not trying to be offensive, just saying I'm not going to read your posts.

Later.

[Rekd]

Originally Posted by filmfan

OTH, the sort of bike lane you're talking about is pretty rare.

No. They're not rare at all. They're stinkin' everywhere. On average they're wide enough for two bikes side by side with plenty of room to spare.

And the idiots that ride outside the oversized bike lanes without cause are not rare either.

[mrt10x]

We are stubborn because we simply don’t agree that the majority of riders behave in this way. I am from SoCal, I grew up riding in Orange County, I went to college in San Diego and I have spent 7 of my 22 years in the Marines stationed in San Diego. I rode thousands of miles around San Diego in my last 4 year stint there from 2003-2007. On a normal 70-100 mile weekend ride from Poway to the coast then up PCH I would have to leave the "bike lane" literally hundreds of time per ride to avoid glass, sand, drains, or poorly maintained access covers. Why is “bike lane” in quotations? Because what you often view as a bike lane is in fact simply a shoulder, or safety lane. Just because there is a white line on the edge of the road, and another 3-4 feet of tarmac to the right of that line, does not mean this is a true bike lane. A bike lane would not have raised or sunken access points/man holes, or massive drainage grates, and would be swept by the street sweepers. There are actually far less true bike lanes than you think. This doesn’t even take into account the dozens and dozens of miles where I would forced into “traffic lanes” because cars were parked in the “bike lanes.”

We are stubborn because for every one of us whom you see running a stop sign or riding the white line, or drifting into a lane of traffic, we see a cager who thinks we should be riding on the sidewalk, or riding into oncoming traffic, or who will throw water at us from a passing open window, or throw firecrackers at us, or empty bottles. It is a combative relationship on the road and on the web.. so be it. I will continue to ride as I deem necessary to keep myself safe. I defy your ability to see what I am trying to avoid as you pass me in your cage or even on your motorcycle, and I reject your supposition that there are numerous riders who simply ride in the traffic lanes when there are serviceable bike lanes to be had... no experience rider would purposefully ride closer to the danger unless it is warranted by road/lane conditions. What is passable on a beach cruiser or mountain bike, or on a leisurely ride to work is not nearly as passable on a carbon fiber 700x21 wheel traveling at 25mph.

What I am a little surprised at is the combative attitude from other two wheel travelers. Motorcycle riders do things everyday that stretch the rules of the road to better protect themselves. Riding defensively on a bicycle, which lacks the motorcycles ability to power out of dangerous situations, often means riding aggressively. Now I know that sounds odd, how can aggressive riding be defensive? It allows you to maintain control of the environment you are riding in.. and I know as motorcyclists you understand this. You may reject a cyclists right to use the road on an equal level as a motorized vehicle..Luckily we have the law on our side, at least in CA. The rules, of course, apply to all. I choose to break some of those rules IOT make my ride safer and more efficient, the same way I do in my truck and on the motorcycle where I routinely run 5-10mph over the speed limit. If I get pulled over for rolling through a stop sign I will pay the price, just like I do if I get pulled over for speeding in my truck or on my motorcycle, hell I got a speeding ticket on my bicycle once. I personally will not run a stop sign if there are other cars in the area. I know that there are plenty of cyclists who will run all stop signs, I have no excuse for them.. but don’t paint all cyclists with your broad brushed hatred just because some of us are rude and ignorant… it is the same type of generalized hatred that non-motorcyclists paint you with their misguided generalizations.

I try to avoid these pointless threads, and I am sorry that I got involved in this one.. same reason I never venture into jomamma.. I don’t expect you to ever understand why cyclists do what they do, what I find surprising is that motorcyclists, who are painted by misguided broad brush generalizations by cagers, are just as biased towards bicyclists. If you think cagers are ignorant because they can never understand why you do what you do on your motorcycle, maybe you could benefit from trying to apply the same understanding you wish you could get from cagers, towards your fellow two wheeled travelers.

[Jim Moore]

Originally Posted by jas67

At least here in PA, often times the surface to the right of the white line is un-rideable for anything but a full suspension mountain bike. If you're on a skinny-tire road bike, forget it -- too damned rough, and often lots of gravel. Oh, and on a lot of the roads I ride, there is about 6-12" of paved surfaee to the right of the white line, and that often goes to zero abruptly. Add to that the stupid continuous drunk-alert rumble strip on that white line that will vibrate you right off your bikek when you cross it, and I often just end up staying just to the left of the white line. It is hard to notice these differences when blasting down the road on your car (or motorcycle) at 55-60 MPH.

Other states are different. Our neighboring state to the south, Maryland has wonderful biking lanes, often with a 6-8 foot wide smooth paved shoulder that is a joy to ride on -- which I do use if I'm lucky enough to be on such a road.

That makes perfect sense. One of the few posts in this 50+ page thread that does.

[Rekd]

Originally Posted by mrt10x

We are stubborn because we simply don’t agree that the majority of riders behave in this way. I am from SoCal, I grew up riding in Orange County, I went to college in San Diego and I have spent 7 of my 22 years in the Marines stationed in San Diego. I rode thousands of miles around San Diego in my last 4 year stint there from 2003-2007. On a normal 70-100 mile weekend ride from Poway to the coast then up PCH I would have to leave the "bike lane" literally hundreds of time per ride to avoid glass, sand, drains, or poorly maintained access covers. Why is “bike lane” in quotations? Because what you often view as a bike lane is in fact simply a shoulder, or safety lane. Just because there is a white line on the edge of the road, and another 3-4 feet of tarmac to the right of that line, does not mean this is a true bike lane. A bike lane would not have raised or sunken access points/man holes, or massive drainage grates, and would be swept by the street sweepers. There are actually far less true bike lanes than you think. This doesn’t even take into account the dozens and dozens of miles where I would forced into “traffic lanes” because cars were parked in the “bike lanes.” We are stubborn because for every one of us whom you see running a stop sign or riding the white line, or drifting into a lane of traffic, we see a cager who thinks we should be riding on the sidewalk, or riding into oncoming traffic, or who will throw water at us from a passing open window, or throw firecrackers at us, or empty bottles. It is a combative relationship on the road and on the web.. so be it. I will continue to ride as I deem necessary to keep myself safe. I defy your ability to see what I am trying to avoid as you pass me in your cage or even on your motorcycle, and I reject your supposition that there are numerous riders who simply ride in the traffic lanes when there are serviceable bike lanes to be had... no experience rider would purposefully ride closer to the danger unless it is warranted by road/lane conditions. What is passable on a beach cruiser or mountain bike, or on a leisurely ride to work is not nearly as passable on a carbon fiber 700x21 wheel traveling at 25mph. What I am a little surprised at is the combative attitude from other two wheel travelers. Motorcycle riders do things everyday that stretch the rules of the road to better protect themselves. Riding defensively on a bicycle, which lacks the motorcycles ability to power out of dangerous situations, often means riding aggressively. Now I know that sounds odd, how can aggressive riding be defensive? It allows you to maintain control of the environment you are riding in.. and I know as motorcyclists you understand this. You may reject a cyclists right to use the road on an equal level as a motorized vehicle..Luckily we have the law on our side, at least in CA. The rules, of course, apply to all. I choose to break some of those rules IOT make my ride safer and more efficient. If I get pulled over for rolling through a stop sign I will pay the price, just like I do if I get pulled over for speeding in my truck or on my motorcycle, hell I got a speeding ticket on my bicycle once. I personally will not run a stop sign if there are other cars in the area. I know that there are plenty of cyclists who will run all stop signs, I have no excuse for them.. but don’t paint all cyclists with your broad brushed hatred just because some of us are rude and ignorant… it is the same type of generalized hatred that non-motorcyclists paint you with their misguided generalizations. I try to avoid these pointless threads, and I a sorry that I got involved in this one.. same reason I never venture into jomamma.. I don’t expect you to ever understand why cyclists do what they do, what I find surprising is that motorcyclists, who are painted by misguided broad brush generalizations by cagers, are just as biased towards bicyclists. If you think cagers are ignorant because they can never understand why you do what you do on your motorcycle, maybe you could benefit from trying to apply the same understanding you wish you could get from cagers, towards your fellow two wheeled travelers.

First of all, thanks for your service.

I don't think it's the 'majority' of riders, but it is getting very close to half around here. It's a lot. If you see more than a couple of single riders on a commute it's a sure bet one of them will be out in traffic or damned close to it when they've got plenty of room.

And I'm not talking about people that come out into traffic to avoid a hazard on the lane every mile. I'm talking about riding out there.

As to your last statement, you're wrong (at least in my case). I do all three so my gripe is with general stupidity. Including my own some times when I get on my wife's bike (GSXR600) and go much faster than I should be. At least I was smart enough to buy myself a slow commuter (KLR650) because I know I'm being stupid and do things to reduce the level of stupidity.

The cyclists around here are getting stupider. Not smarter.