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Old 10-28-2011, 08:14 PM   #61
WayneC1
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Agree, what a waste, the site is false & misleading on legality of importing a helmet to start with, does not cover the NZ standard helmets now legal under the 2006 Oz STD update & fails to mention head shape as a factor in helmet fit & comfort.

For the record, the link below is to the NZ Govt web site & sets out legals for NZ helmets

http://nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadco...ight-gear.html

The relevant part is :-

Helmet safety standards

An approved motorcycle helmet is one that complies with one or more of the approved international standards:
  • UN/ECE Regulation No. 22: Protective helmets and their visors for drivers and passengers of motorcycles and mopeds (Europe)
  • Australian Standard AS 1698: Protective helmets for vehicle users
  • New Zealand Standard NZS 5430: Protective helmets for vehicle users
  • Snell Memorial Foundation: Helmet Standard for use in motorcycling
  • Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 218: Motorcycle helmets
  • British Standard BS 6658: Specification for protective helmets for vehicle users (for type A helmets only)
  • Japan Industrial Standard T8133.
Under AS/NZS 1698 - 2006 any helmet meeting the above standards is legal to sell in Oz & so should be legal to use if the States sorted out their gazetted regulations
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Old 10-28-2011, 09:48 PM   #62
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Thanks for changing the spelling in the thread title. My work here is done!
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Old 11-02-2011, 01:20 AM   #63
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Will do. Will call in on the weekend.
As promised..... This of course is put out by McLeods I believe.
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Old 11-20-2011, 06:49 PM   #64
WayneC1
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Found another roadrider.com.au article on helmets

http://www.roadrider.com.au/CustomCo...aspx?ID=296819

ACCC also responded to my last email, it seems they only care about the act they administer

Thank you for your further email of 27 October 2011 to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) regarding the motorcycle helmet standards. Kylie has forwarded your complaint to me for re-consideration and response.
To summarise your complaint, you are concerned about the inconsistencies in the laws the states and territories of Australia have in place in relation to motorcycle helmets. In particular their lack of adherence to the national motorcycle helmet mandatory standard enforced by the ACCC under the Competition & Consumer Act 2010. I understand that you feel it is the ACCC’s responsibility to ensure that all state and territory laws should mirror the national standard. I further understand you feel that the lack of standardisation in the law is anti-competitive and a restriction on trade.

By way of background, the national mandatory standard for motorcycle helmets came into effect on 19 December 1990 under the
Consumer Protection Notice No. 9 of 1990. Since this date motorcycle helmets sold in Australia must comply with the regulations contained within this standard. However, each state and territory in Australia has their own set of legislation that includes requirements for motorcycle riders and what the definition of an approved motorcycle helmet is. These requirements are interpreted from the Australian Road Rules (maintained by the National Transport Commission). The interpretations are different in each jurisdiction and none of them reference the Consumer Protection Notice No. 9 of 1990.

The Competition & Consumer Act 2010 applies only to persons engaged in trade or commerce. In respect of the application of the Act to the States and Territories of Australia, section 2B provides that Pt IV (covering restrictive trade practices), Part XIB (covering anti-competitive conduct in the telecommunications industry) and any other provision of the Act in so far as they relate to Part IV and Part XIB applies to the Crown in the right of the States and Territories in so far as they carry on a business, either directly or by an authority of the State or Territory. This means that the State and Territory governments (in their commercial activities) are subject to the same regime as corporations. Consequently, a State or Territory government carrying out its statutory functions is unlikely to be carrying on a business for the purposes of the Act.


I also draw your attention to paragraphs 51(1)(b)-(e) of the Act which provide an exemption from the restrictive trade practices provisions of the Act for anything that has been specified in, and specifically authorised by State or Territory legislation or associated regulations of that legislation. However, such exemptions are subject to the limitations set out in subsection 51(1C) of the Act.


Therefore, in this instance the legislations in place for motorcycle helmets enacted by each state & territory of Australia fall outside the ACCC’s jurisdiction.


The ACCC does understand your frustration with this situation; however the ACCC is constrained by its jurisdictional limits. It does not have the authority to pursue conduct which is not in breach of the legislation it administers or force states and territories to change their legislation. The ACCC must operate within the legislative framework. The legislation lays down a specific set of competition and consumer protection rules.


In this instance I suggest you raise your concerns with the National Transport Commission and/or your local member of Parliament. You can contact the National Transport Commission on:


National Transport Commission

Level 15, 628 Bourke Street
Melbourne, VIC 3000

Telephone: 03 8236 5000

Facsimile: 03 9642 8922
Email: enquiries@ntc.gov.au

Thank you for contacting the ACCC with your concerns and I regret I am unable to be of further assistance.


Yours sincerely,


Davin Phillips

Assistant Director – ACCC Infocentre | Intelligence, Infocentre & Policy Liaison Branch
Australian Competition & Consumer Commission
23 Marcus Clarke Street Canberra 2601 |http://www.accc.gov.au
T: 1300 302 502

I have sent them a copy of the HCI POS material shown earlier in the thread & asked what they propose to do about false & misleading advertising
amongst other things

It also seems they have not updated their precious
Consumer Protection Notice No. 9 of 1990 to refer to AS/NZS1698 2006 or amendments 1 & 2 to it. It is only 6 years since it was put in place


WayneC1 screwed with this post 11-20-2011 at 06:56 PM
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Old 11-21-2011, 12:20 AM   #65
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Well done Wayne.

It would seem its now up to each state to constructively get rid of Australian standards by referring to world standards.

How bad is it in this country when we have ADRS dictating bike standards and yet the states can't agree on helmet standards.


Truly a case of far too many people working in govt jobs.

We could sack 50% of the public service and not feel a thing.
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:16 AM   #66
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Except for those public servants who you want to get rid of.

Many probably ride bikes, have families, pay taxes.

But hey, let's just get rid of them.
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:45 AM   #67
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Except for those public servants who you want to get rid of.
Many probably ride bikes, have families, pay taxes.
But hey, let's just get rid of them.
Easy - privatise the government....
No, hang on - that's what got us into this mess in the first place, wasn't it - they privatised Australian Standards (and threw in Australian Morals and Australian Ethics as sweetners).
I think the point being made is that there's a lot of job-justification going on. Perhaps if those people who are paid to duplicate (and confuse) work already done elsewhere actually talked to one another, they might find more productive things to do - like come up with a Standard for a Fire Refuge bunker, for example...
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Precis screwed with this post 11-21-2011 at 03:14 PM
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:55 AM   #68
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Yes, well said

ACCC adminsters what is legal to sell under Consumer Directive 9

Treasury specifies what is in Directive 9 (AS1698)

Australian Road Rules Specifies what is legal to use via Transport Commission or what ever it is called

The states are meant to set regulations according to ADR & their precious commission & they are off on a tangent

Everyone guards their little piece & so we have one rule that states what is legal to sell & different rules for what is legal to use we are the one's who then get lumbered for not complying with one rule or the other

You could make a good John Cleese comedy routine out of it all

All I can think of saying is .......... Yes Minister

WayneC1 screwed with this post 11-21-2011 at 05:04 PM
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Old 11-21-2011, 03:20 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by WayneC1 View Post
Yes, well said

ACCC adminsters what is legal to sell under Consumer Directive 9

Treasury specifies what is in Directive 9 (AS1698-2006)

Australian Road Rules Specifies what is legal to use via Transport Commission or what ever it is called

The states are meant to set regulations according to ADR & their precious commission & they are off on a tangent

Everyone guards their little piece & so we have one rule that states what is legal to sell & different rules for what is legal to use we are the one's who then get lumbered for not complying with one rule or the other
Like here in VIC, all new cars must have Electronic Skid Control - an accelerometr and a few lines of code in the ABS computer that pinches individual discs to try & pull cars back into line if the computer decides you're crashing.
Never mind in other Aus States, nowhere else in the WORLD is this a requirement. Dunno what happens if you buy a non-ESC car interstate & then move to Victoria - can't see them refusing to allow you to register a car that's already in your name.
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Old 11-21-2011, 03:36 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Precis View Post

I think the point being made is that there's a lot of job-justification going on. Perhaps if those people who are paid to duplicate (and confuse) work already done elsewhere actually talked to one another, they might find more productive things to do - like come up with a Standard for a Fire Refuge bunker, for example...
Everyone's allowed to dream !!
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Old 11-21-2011, 04:49 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by WayneC1 View Post
Yes, well said

ACCC adminsters what is legal to sell under Consumer Directive 9

Treasury specifies what is in Directive 9 (AS1698-2006)

Australian Road Rules Specifies what is legal to use via Transport Commission or what ever it is called

The states are meant to set regulations according to ADR & their precious commission & they are off on a tangent

Everyone guards their little piece & so we have one rule that states what is legal to sell & different rules for what is legal to use we are the one's who then get lumbered for not complying with one rule or the other

You could make a good John Cleese comedy routine out of it all

All I can think of saying is .......... Yes Minister
Who is the state vic minister for this currently ?

He needs some blow torch action.

The only way around AS is to take their business from them.

Have a look on the front of the Australian standards website: http://www.standards.org.au/Home.aspx

This is a joke: We are developing a standard for climate change adoption http://www.standards.org.au/LinkClic...bid=94&mid=423

How do you hold a slippery eel?
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:15 PM   #72
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The state regulations are set by authorised people within the departments not by the Minister

Last Gazetted rule for Vic in Govt Gazette 9 Nov 2009

Notice it refers to AS1698-1988, They are so inept that they cant even refer to the current standard

Road Safety Act 1986
ROAD SAFETY ROAD RULES 2009
Approved Motor Bike Helmets

1. Purpose
The purpose of this notice is to declare that only certain types of motor bike helmets are approved for use under the Road Safety Road Rules 2009 (in this notice referred to as the Road Rules).

2. Authorising provision
This notice is made under rule 270 of the Road Rules which states that an approved motor bike helmet means a protective helmet for motor bike riders that is approved by the Roads Corporation by notice in the Government Gazette.

3. Commencement This notice comes into operation on 9 November 2009.

4. Revocation
The notice published in the Government Gazette No. S 174 on 1 December 1999 regarding approved motor bike helmets is revoked.

5. Expiry This notice expires on 9 November 2019.

6. Definition
In this notice, relevant Standard means Australian Standard AS 16981988: Protective helmets for vehicle users.

7. Approval
I, George Mavroyeni, delegate of the Roads Corporation, approve the following motor bike
helmets for the purposes of rule 270 of the Road Rules
(a) a motor bike helmet manufactured in Australia which
(i) complies with a version of the relevant Standard that was in force at the time of
manufacture or any later version; and
(ii) is marked with an official standards mark certifying compliance with that version of the relevant Standard; and
(b) a motor bike helmet imported into Australia which
(i) complies with a version of the relevant Standard that was in force at the time of importation or any later version; and
(ii) is marked with an official standards mark certifying compliance with that version of the relevant Standard.

Note: Words and phrases in this notice have the same meaning as in the Road Safety Act 1986 and the Regulations under that Act.

Dated 9 November 2009
GEORGE MAVROYENI
Executive Director
Road Safety and Network Access
Roads Corporation
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Old 11-21-2011, 06:59 PM   #73
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Wow some good progress on understanding the cluster f&%k that is Aust m/c helmet legislation.
Looks like we need Enn Zud to take us over to get some good governence going.....fush en chups anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Precis View Post
Like here in VIC, all new cars must have Electronic Skid Control - an accelerometr and a few lines of code in the ABS computer that pinches individual discs to try & pull cars back into line if the computer decides you're crashing.
Never mind in other Aus States, nowhere else in the WORLD is this a requirement. Dunno what happens if you buy a non-ESC car interstate & then move to Victoria - can't see them refusing to allow you to register a car that's already in your name.
The answer is Yes and No. VIC roads says...
If you moved to Victoria from interstate after 1 January 2011, and your vehicle has a compliance/identification plate date of January 2011 or after, it must have electronic stability control fitted to be registered in Victoria.
This ESC requirement applies to passenger cars, off-road passenger vehicles, and forward-control passenger vehicles e.g. passenger vans.
However, if your vehicle has been registered in another state or territory for 12 months or more, then it can be registered in Victoria, even if it does not have electronic stability control. You will need documentation to show that your vehicle has been registered for 12 months or more.
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Old 11-21-2011, 07:26 PM   #74
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(ii) is marked with an official standards mark certifying compliance with that version of the relevant Standard;

My take on this is that this line is the closest to justifying a sticker for VIC.
But only if the label inside the helmet doesnt certify compliance with the standard.
(must still be able to read it through all the hair grease to comply with the standard)

There is no one specific 'official standards mark' in Australia any more. (since 2003)
Just a bunch of companies that can test compliance to the standard and whack on stickers to that effect with their own corporate trade marks/logos.

All a bit iffy as IIRC the labeling required by the standard doesn't have to 'certify compliance'.
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Old 11-21-2011, 07:37 PM   #75
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NSW RTA Helmet Testing

Not sure this has been mentioned yet.

I got a rego renewal yesterday and it contained a brochure:
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety...le_helmets.pdf

The NSW RTA is now doing its own helmet testing just for us NSW residents!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some disclaimers, no surprise and this statement:
"By law, motorcyclists MUST wear an approved helmet when riding on a motorcycle."

No mention of what constitutes 'approved'.

The bit on penalties also refers to 'approved':
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/usingroads...torcycles.html

And eventually a definition of 'approved'"
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety...lehelmets.html

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