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Old 11-21-2001, 09:01 PM   #1
Baldy OP
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Helge Pedersen slams ADVrider

Yeowsa.

Helge sent me a $690 bill for illegal use to date of the Darien Gap canoe with motorcycle photograph which is the cover of his book, and demanded I remove it immediately. He said he's pretty upset at the boldness of my act.

So, what do you think I should do? If you go to http://www.advrider.com/Books/Books.html , you can see it being used to promote his book, with a link to BN.com for purchasing (ADVrider receives no affiliate fees from BN.com for that). I could remove the image and leave a blank spot for his book I suppose. Or I could just take down all references to his book.

He must know that image can be found on dozens of sites from Amazon to Touratech-USA with no copyright notice on them.

I had the large version of the image (taken from Amazon no doubt) in the photo pages, along with another image of him (he charged me $690 for that too). He claimed I put a copyright ADVrider notice on the page (I didn't) and said I gave no credit to Helge (I had his name pop up when you did a mouse-over).

cRAsH, if you're reading this and getting ideas because I found your photo on the net and used it without putting your name on it, sue me. You might be able to win all the income ADVrider produces.
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Old 11-21-2001, 09:30 PM   #2
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Hmmm... most of the pro and semi prog photographers I talk with get pretty uptight over seeing their images pop up on the Internet without proper credit given. The normal procedure is to first send a polite, but firm note to the webmaster informing them of their "error" and giving them opportunity to correct via acknowledgement, removal or other changes. Kind of uncool to come out with such a attitude right from the start.

Of course, he *does* own the rights to his photos, so he is within those rights to control them, but I think he might have missed the title "The Best Books" and the nice link right to buy it on www.bn.com. Still, the cat is out of the barn, and if he's not looking for free publicity (with proper copyright acknowledgement), then I guess I know what I would do.

Anybody have nominations for a new "Best Book"?

-JC
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Old 11-21-2001, 09:31 PM   #3
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I dunno baldy, he looks like a nice enough guy to me...







note: all three images above were found during a simple google search of "helga pedersen"

I say send him a flaming shit bag and forget it.

fish screwed with this post 11-21-2001 at 10:09 PM
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Old 11-21-2001, 09:34 PM   #4
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FW just gave me a great idea. BAN HIM !
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Old 11-21-2001, 09:41 PM   #5
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fish, please send Helge your address, so he can send you proper flame mail and a bill for 3 x $690 for your bold act.
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Old 11-21-2001, 09:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Baldy
fish, please send Helge your address, so he can send you proper flame mail and a bill for 3 x $690 for your bold act.
I'll just tell him to pound sand http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?...son+of+a+bitch

fish screwed with this post 11-21-2001 at 10:23 PM
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Old 11-21-2001, 10:36 PM   #7
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Do I understand correctly that all the image was used for was to recommend his book as one of the best? If that is the case, I'd do two things:

1. Remove the image along with the recommendation.

2. Create a special Moderator-only forum called something like Jerk du Jour, modeled after the Asshole of the month section of Hustler magazine. Complete with images. Make Helge the first and (so far) only member. Tell the entire story.

- S
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Old 11-22-2001, 03:46 AM   #8
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Unfortunately, copyrighted material must be vigoursly protected. Unless you consistently protect it from any unauthorized use, your rights erode to protect it from unwanted or improper use. Sad but true.

IMO, this was certainly heavy handed, but he must enforce his copyright consistently. He has made his point.

First, I'd store a copy of the website on CD, just in case you need it later.

Second, remove the reference immediately. Document that you took corrective action upon notification. That should satisfy a reasonable person.

You were not selling the image or gaining any income from it's use. Even if you were promoting his book without his permission, I don't see how there are any collectible damages. It would seem to be very difficult to establish what the amount of damages might be.

Heldge and the parties involved in the book distribution (publisher, etc.) were the only ones making money from use of the image.

The amount he's claiming as owed is not worth suing over. Take down the images and stop giving away free advertising to him.

Pay up? No way. Silly for him to even ask on the first notification. (Now if the objectionable practice continues after notification... that might be different.)

Bill
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Old 11-22-2001, 04:42 AM   #9
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So, Baldmeister....

Are you sure the correspondence from Helge Pedersen was legit to begin with? or is it remotely possible that some one is just messing with your head?

The reason I ask is that I met the guy at a little dog and pony show here in town some years back and I wasn't impressed that he has/had the acumen and business sense to pursue something like this.

Basically we're talking about some transient norseman with a high school education who did one cool thing in his whole life and has so little to occupy his time on an ongoing basis that he produced a pretty little book of minimal substance with a limited, and now dissipating, audience.

I say verify the claim, if it is legit and he truly is incensed that you would dare help promote his silly little tome then settle for $.01 on the dollar, and boycott his ass right off ADVRider....That's 450+ like-minded individuals who probably won't regard him in a favorable light next time they do business with him, or his current (?) sponsor Ride West BMW.

Do we have an award/category for shooting yourself in the foot?
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Old 11-22-2001, 08:43 AM   #10
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hey piggy-

he's the BIG GUY after all, the list owner....also known as defendant..
probably he should leave the mud slingin' to us lil' piggys down here in the mire (a chore we can handle quite well)
'sides he's probably polishing his boots for court....
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Old 11-22-2001, 09:03 AM   #11
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The more I think about this issue the more unbelievable it seems. Why would anyone not want some free (and positive, I might add) press and promotion of one's book?

From the "Best Books" list:

This is The Mother of all Adventure Rides by The Essence of Coolness Himself. Helge is the best-known adventure rider on earth, a professional photographer whose book is filled with breathtaking National Geographic-quality shots. And the narrative isn't bad; it would be hard to make the description of 250,000 miles in 77 countries dull. It's got love, heartache, danger, adventure, humor... BMW gave him a new GS so they could place Olga in a museum. Enjoy every
delicious page.


Hell, maybe he's bent cuz Robert Fulton's book is listed above his?

He can twist for all I care.
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Old 11-22-2001, 10:56 AM   #12
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This one has been bugging me. I'd enjoyed Helge's writing and talks and have admired the man's accomplishments. However, if the note referenced by Baldy is indeed from him, he's dropped considerably in my eyes.

The way I see it, there's probably a good reason to explain what I've read:
  • Language problem
  • There's a lawyer in the works somewhere
  • Someone masquerading as Helge
  • He sold out and has become a flaming ass-hole
  • Motorcycle accident w/out helmet (dementia)
So, what to do? Contact him and ascertain whether the communication truly originated from him. If not, no problem. If so, technically he's legally correct. Take his book off the site and, as others have stated here, start a password-only room dedicated to identifying butt-heads - along with complete, detailed explanations. Like most sections, I imagine fish will have substantial contributions to make here.

I just can't believe that he'd do this.

Marc
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Old 11-22-2001, 11:06 AM   #13
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To answer a few questions:

Are you sure the correspondence from Helge Pedersen was legit to begin with?

Yep. His letter and invoice were sent certified mail.

Do I understand correctly that all the image was used for was to recommend his book as one of the best?

No. I placed the cover scan to his book and another photo of him similar to the ones fish posted yesterday (but subsequently replaced with images of the 3 Stooges) in the photo gallery. I am sure his photographer friends saw those and hit the roof. I was thinking I'm promoting him and he was thinking I'm ripping him off for commercial gain. His photographer friends told him I had placed a copyright ADVrider notice on the page (they were mistaken).

Unfortunately, copyrighted material must be vigoursly protected.

True statement. If I were Helge, I'd keep an eye out for unauthorized use too, but if I were to take the time to send two certified-mail letters, I'd probably try to get my facts right and place a reasonable tone and request.

This reminds me of when Palm's brain-damaged management decided to crack down on unathorized use of the Palm® trademark. So they sent threatening letters out the owners of the enthusiast sites that support Palm®. And what do you think those sites did? They became Microsoft enthusiast sites. Microsoft did not make the same mistake and send out threatening letters.

Well, wadayawaitinfor? I woke up this morning expecting to find a new Best Books list, absent the Jerk du Jour's petty tome.

It's a good book.

I used to work for Steve Jobs and he wasn't the easiest guy to be around, but he sure did some good stuff so I had to get over it.
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Old 11-22-2001, 01:07 PM   #14
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Re: Helge Pedersen slams ADVrider

Quote:
Originally posted by Baldy
Yeowsa.

cRAsH, if you're reading this and getting ideas because I found your photo on the net and used it without putting your name on it, sue me. You might be able to win all the income ADVrider produces.
No chance, cueball. I know which side my bread is buttered on.
Beside, unlike our buddy Helge, who is making a living off of his fine photography and by telling his story of being a biker bum, I love the idea that my photos are out there. That's why I take the time to shoot them. Sharing is good.
Helge is one of those guys who let his fame get to his head. When he was taking those photos, he was just another motorcycle bum charming his way around the world. He wasn't the first at ANYthing, he just did the most promoting. Fine, more power to him. But, if he were to show up at Alice's one day, we'd give him a ration of shit just like any other biker scum...
One of my best beemer buds is pretty tight with HP, and I'll be seeing him this weekend. I'll get his perspective on it.

But, this brings up an issue I have with that photo gallery anyway. I think (and have always thought) that the gallery should be member photos. Screw a bunch of pictures taken by and of non-members. What good are they? I say, use that gallery to display the local talent, and screw those cats.
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Old 11-22-2001, 01:15 PM   #15
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Re: Re: Helge Pedersen slams ADVrider

Quote:
Originally posted by cRAsH
...I think (and have always thought) that the gallery should be member photos. Screw a bunch of pictures taken by and of non-members. What good are they? I say, use that gallery to display the local talent, and screw those cats.
I second this.

Marc
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