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Old 11-17-2011, 12:43 PM   #241
shrineclown
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Originally Posted by Kropotkin View Post
He kicked Rossi's ass while he was on a bike that Rossi could only get near the podium once on.
Ouch, and my buddy Albert has left me here all alone! They are both great rider's, let's not kid ourselves differently. If Casey was Vale's age, his aggression on the Ducati may have been different too. Sometimes, you gain new perspective with wisdom teeth.
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Old 11-17-2011, 12:50 PM   #242
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10 days and already 17 pages..time to get subscribed.
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Old 11-17-2011, 12:57 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by Pecha72 View Post
Stoner during his Ducati years did so in 2007, but it was also the beginning of the 800s, and the Duc was pretty good out of the box back then. In 2008, 2009 and 2010 he finished behind Rossi in championship points.

Don´t know how comparable those Bologna bikes were at the beginning, and the end of the 800 era.
I should elucidate. In 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010, Casey Stoner won races on the Ducati, competing against Valentino Rossi on the Yamaha. In 2011, Valentino Rossi lucked into a single podium when Marco Simoncelli had a brain fart and took Dani Pedrosa out, sidelining Pedrosa and suffering a ridethrough. Half a lap more patience from Simoncelli and Rossi's best result in 2011 is 5th.

I think we can safely say that Stoner's not a bad rider, all things considered.
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:23 PM   #244
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Of course Stoner is a great rider, and his results on the Honda, and especially Ducati speak for themselves. But was it all just his talent, that made him so much better on the Ducati than... well, everybody else? I think it had more to do with the bike, for whatever reason, suiting his riding style in a way that it has not done since.

Mika Kallio once said, that he´d watched hours and hours of video of Stoner, and tried like hell to figure out, what exactly it was, that Stoner was doing ´right´ and everyone else couldn´t. Apparently he never did figure it out! There have been many unquestionably talented riders, not just Rossi, who have failed to get up front with it.

And lets not forget that after the jackpot year (2007), even though he was still by far the fastest Ducati rider, it was a bit of up&down, even for Stoner.
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:33 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by Pecha72 View Post
Of course Stoner is a great rider, and his results on the Honda, and especially Ducati speak for themselves. But was it all just his talent, that made him so much better on the Ducati than... well, everybody else? I think it had more to do with the bike, for whatever reason, suiting his riding style in a way that it has not done since.

Mika Kallio once said, that he´d watched hours and hours of video of Stoner, and tried like hell to figure out, what exactly it was, that Stoner was doing ´right´ and everyone else couldn´t. Apparently he never did figure it out! There have been many unquestionably talented riders, not just Rossi, who have failed to get up front with it.

And lets not forget that after the jackpot year (2007), even though he was still by far the fastest Ducati rider, it was a bit of up&down, even for Stoner.

Spies has said something similar. He's followed Rossi and Lorenzo around and understood what they were doing, and known what he had to do to try to copy them, even if it proved nearly impossible. Watching Stoner, he has no idea how Stoner goes so fast.

I'm coming off the fence: On any day, on equal machinery, Casey Stoner would hand any other rider in the world their arses in a ribbon. Stoner is like Spencer: pure, unadulterated talent, but unlike Spencer, he has the intelligence and common sense to understand what he is doing and how he can improve. Abrasive? Sure. Fan friendly? Certainly not. Fast? Faster than anyone who ever came before him.

The good news is that Stoner will only be around for a few years. His real ambition is to run the family farm. He has some business in MotoGP first, and then he's gone.
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:36 PM   #246
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OK, caught up now. My thoughts:

1. I hate change...and am not happy with the Dorna changes. I like(d) 125's, 250's and the big bikes...beit 800's or 1000's. I personally do not like the loss of what the history has created. Maybe its just me.

2. CRT teams. IMO..if the goal is to make a level playing field, why make this spec or that spec. I have said it before..they should race on whatever tire they want, etc. If they want to have a limiting factor to make things equal, why not have it be the budget. Everyone working with the same amount of capital. Who ever can get the best bike and best rider with X $$, and see what you can do with it. maybe just a pipe dream.

3. The Stoner debate. Sure, nothing is apples to apples, but I think its safe to say Stoner had done better on the Duc than Vale has done. Stoner's talent on the Honda also shines..even though it makes for boring up front racing. Hey, as long as the camera guys know to be focused on where the racing is exciting, I don't care. At the end of the day, these guys get paid to win races, not to make the racing exciting. Anyone of us, either through the bike or talent, had a chance to check out on a MotoGP field....who can honestly say they would not?

OK, that is all I have for now.
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:43 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by Kropotkin View Post
He kicked Rossi's ass while he was on a bike that Rossi could only get near the podium once on.
That he did. But he also whined the whole time last year as well, where as Rossi while having issues with the Duck held his head high. Never said Stoner wasn't fast, he is, but man is the dude ever a whiner. Also, he's only won the championship when he has been on the best package. Fast yes. Consistent on machinery that isn't the top of the line? No.

And to think, all that whine and he can't even have any cheese with it because he's lactose intolerant.
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:44 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by Silver View Post
That he did. But he also whined the whole time last year as well, where as Rossi while having issues with the Duck held his head high. Never said Stoner wasn't fast, he is, but man is the dude ever a whiner. Also, he's only won the championship when he has been on the best package. Fast yes. Consistent on machinery that isn't the top of the line? No.

And to think, all that whine and he can't even have any cheese with it because he's lactose intolerant.
The only people who whine more than Stoner, apparently, are Rossi fans
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:51 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by Silver View Post
That he did. But he also whined the whole time last year as well, where as Rossi while having issues with the Duck held his head high. Never said Stoner wasn't fast, he is, but man is the dude ever a whiner. Also, he's only won the championship when he has been on the best package. Fast yes. Consistent on machinery that isn't the top of the line? No.

And to think, all that whine and he can't even have any cheese with it because he's lactose intolerant.
nope... no whining....



Quote:
In the series Misano MotoGP, Valentino Rossi will wear a helmet with new graphics. Italian racing superstar had a special message through his “WTF Comic” helmet. Especially if it was not telling of difficulty since the racing season with Ducati in 2011.
The writing on this new helmet, according to Alex Briggs one of the mechanics Rossi through his twitter account has meaning “Wh * t the F ** k”. This sentence might also be critical for people and a team mechanic in his team.
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:59 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by Kropotkin View Post
The only people who whine more than Stoner, apparently, are Rossi fans
I'm a Hayden fan first and foremost tyvm.

But yes, and a whiner as well.
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Old 11-17-2011, 02:10 PM   #251
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I'm a Hayden fan first and foremost tyvm.

But yes, and a whiner as well.
Honestly, I've been amazed at the dignity with which Rossi has held himself and answered the same question over and over again ("why can't you win on the bike that Casey won on?" - answer "Casey rode this bike in a very special way") without losing his cool. He has missed one press conference that I know of - Sunday after the Valencia race. Hayden, too, has defended the team and been barely critical, despite having every reason to, and occasionally almost letting slip, but being very dignified about it. Impressive.

Mind you, Stoner has defended Ducati all this year too. The only harsh words I have heard him utter have been aimed at Burgess and his crew, and last year's criticism that Stoner wasn't trying hard enough. Stoner is fiercely defensive of his crew, and will brook no criticism of them. Criticism of himself he is fine with, but don't say anything about his crew.
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Old 11-17-2011, 02:13 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by Pantah View Post
Maybe Casey walks away in 2013, but probably not. I don't think he has fuck you money yet! Reality will sink in when the prospect actually arrives. I mean he showed up in Japan, didn't he?
I'm with you. It's just gum flappin' at this point. He'll show up and it'll be all business. For now, his "ambition does NOT outweigh his talent."

Casey will become a Dad in 2012, he'll be hard to beat but will continue to hide during the sighting lap.
Lorenzo will have something to prove, and he either will or he won't.
I'll begin to care less and less about Rossi until he starts getting results but will always respect his resume.
Pedro will still be stupid fast at the start and maybe it's time he gets his deserved championship.
Ben will start to go faster than JLo.
No one will fill the void left by Simo. That'll be a long time.
The CRT bikes will match the prototypes in the rain, but we'll only see 2 rainy races.
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Old 11-17-2011, 02:31 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by Pecha72 View Post
even though he was still by far the fastest Ducati rider, it was a bit of up&down, even for Stoner.
In his worst Ducati season he scored 220 points. 81 more than Rossi did. And that's with a very thin grid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver View Post
That he did. But he also whined the whole time last year as well, where as Rossi while having issues with the Duck held his head high. Never said Stoner wasn't fast, he is, but man is the dude ever a whiner. Also, he's only won the championship when he has been on the best package. Fast yes. Consistent on machinery that isn't the top of the line? No.

And to think, all that whine and he can't even have any cheese with it because he's lactose intolerant.
I made fun of him too. Maybe he whined because he had a bad motorcycle and was constantly bullied by everybody just because he raced against Rossi and won. He never had the luxury of saying the bike is crap and turn the whole fan base against the manufacturer. He never had the luxury of testing what seemed like a new frame per race.

Wonder how Rossi would have performed under such pressure. The only time he had any pressure on him was Valencia '06 and that did not turn out too great.

I also wonder what Stoner would have done with half of the support Rossi received from Ducati.
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Old 11-17-2011, 02:44 PM   #254
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@Krop: Good to know. I don't recall him defending Ducati, I do recall him calling out Hayden though, think I had my big rant over that lol. Eh we'll see next year. I hate the off season. I also hate winter. :(

Also like someone said at Valencia, would be amazingly LOL if everyone stayed behind Casey on the sighting lap.

I think if Pedrosa stays healthy he will be a major player and it's possibly his year. IF he stays healthy, can anyone link to the pedrosa broken bones chart? I lost it.

I think Spies is a lot closer to getting the bike figured out and will win more than just one race.

Ducati going to have to figure something out. Read that they are completely going away from carbon fiber, hopefully they will line some stuff out and the Doc is going to come out screaming with Hayden right there beside him.


Also for anyone that thinks that I only either A. Profess my absolute love of Honda's or B. Bitch about Stoner, only on here. Well that's just not true and someone wrote a poem about it on a different forum, figured you guys would get a kick out of...

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Silver, Silver, forums fatass
Thinks himself the forums badass
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Yet talks shit about Casey Stoner
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Old 11-17-2011, 03:14 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by yooperbikemike View Post
If there is anyone in the paddock who could just walk away from the whole mess and not look back, it's Casey Stoner.
Couldn't have said it betterer meself....

And yes, I do think he has enough money, he's actually pretty 'old school' when it comes to the life stuff.
Credit to him. Fuck being dumbed down!

"Absolute fastest bike". What? Like the one that he was riding and winning on last year, but is now a dog, in the hands of the dream team?

Stupid.
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